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      07-14-2007, 07:58 PM   #23
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but thats just you, hes asking do we think that of them as a collective, i think 335i owners are newb wannabees, with small privates, who if they could convince themselves they could outrun r8/f430 they would, in fact they prolly already have
oafish comments like this make me question the "collective" intellect, particularly if the collective is compromised of people like you.
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      07-14-2007, 08:14 PM   #24
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Man I thought we beat this horse so dead it was not even recognizeable...
I won't get into another pissing contest with you, Swamp. I've made my point, some agree, some won't. I will say your lack of knowledge on the Vishnu system, saying it's twice as expensive as it really is, kind of makes my point for me. The price you quoted is for V1 with Vishnu cat back exhaust. V2 is making that power with tuning alone, and still costs $1300.
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      07-14-2007, 08:22 PM   #25
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3. In light of what I said above, I would never consider buying a car with a seriously moded engine (100+hp gains) where the power increases are not accounted for by beefing up the rest of the car and the structural components of the engine itself (which would cost much more than what you are quoting). So, you should add not only the cost of repairs/new engine down the line, but also the destruction of the resale value to your calculation.
The deduction for depreciation is going to be the same for any hard driven, worn looking car. You take your stock M3 to the track 5-6 times per year and drive the hell out of it and don't take care of it, its going to depreciate as much as modding a 335i and not taking care of it. If you tend to trade your cars in to a dealer in 3-5 years, the number 1 thing they look at after "year, make, model and miles" is cosmetic condition. As long as you protect your car's appearance, and of course it runs well, you'll get high book value the same as the proverbial grandma that drove her car only to Sunday school.
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      07-14-2007, 08:38 PM   #26
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The deduction for depreciation is going to be the same for any hard driven, worn looking car. You take your stock M3 to the track 5-6 times per year and drive the hell out of it and don't take care of it, its going to depreciate as much as modding a 335i and not taking care of it. If you tend to trade your cars in to a dealer in 3-5 years, the number 1 thing they look at after "year, make, model and miles" is cosmetic condition. As long as you protect your car's appearance, and of course it runs well, you'll get high book value the same as the proverbial grandma that drove her car only to Sunday school.
I don't agree with what you said above (respectable dealers don't like to buy heavily modded cars because they know they are hard to sell, so they will not offer much for them if anything. try putting your heavily modded 335 through a certified BMW buyback inspection and you'll see), but you might have a point in the sense that you might be able to offload any car to someone eventually if you try hard enough. You responded selectively though. My main point was regarding the durability of a heavily modded engine without beefing things up structurally (in the engine & transmission).
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      07-14-2007, 09:02 PM   #27
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      07-14-2007, 09:59 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
The deduction for depreciation is going to be the same for any hard driven, worn looking car. You take your stock M3 to the track 5-6 times per year and drive the hell out of it and don't take care of it, its going to depreciate as much as modding a 335i and not taking care of it. If you tend to trade your cars in to a dealer in 3-5 years, the number 1 thing they look at after "year, make, model and miles" is cosmetic condition. As long as you protect your car's appearance, and of course it runs well, you'll get high book value the same as the proverbial grandma that drove her car only to Sunday school.
I tend to disagree since the 335i is a forced induction car (I find the car to be quite weather sensitive in regards to engine performance) which so far runs pretty hot even with the oil cooler, even with no mods after 3-5 years side by side with a Naturally aspirated M3 buyers will be wary of this and in terms of wear and tear the 335i won't fare as well.
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      07-14-2007, 10:54 PM   #29
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Since when does $52K = $67K (being generous here with the M3 pricing according to latest reports, assuming you can even get one)?
Where did the 67k base msrp come from? Stop fudging the figures. I won't be too surprised if someone says the e92 m3 msrp will be 70k starting.
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      07-15-2007, 12:09 AM   #30
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LOL.

Since when does $52K = $67K (being generous here with the M3 pricing according to latest reports, assuming you can even get one)?

Car = $42K (can save another $3K here with ED, this includes PP, SP, heated seats)
Software = $1.3 installed
BBS forged wheels/tires = $4K installed
LSD $2K installed
3 way adjustable suspension (completely adjustable) = $2.5K installed, aligned, corner balanced

$51.8 total under this scenario
you forgot the $15k for all the m badging
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      07-15-2007, 12:02 PM   #31
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Where did the 67k base msrp come from? Stop fudging the figures. I won't be too surprised if someone says the e92 m3 msrp will be 70k starting.
Are you claiming that a well equipped M3 will be less than $67K? Because my $42K ($39K with ED) 335i comparison car includes PP, SP, heated seats, and metallic paint.

If the M3 turns out to be $60K well equipped, then my argument has less merit. I don't think $67k is fudging anything against the M3, in fact my estimate is probably fudging to the M3's favor.

Or perhaps I misread and you agree that $67K is a little low.
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      07-15-2007, 12:14 PM   #32
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I don't agree with what you said above (respectable dealers don't like to buy heavily modded cars because they know they are hard to sell, so they will not offer much for them if anything. try putting your heavily modded 335 through a certified BMW buyback inspection and you'll see), but you might have a point in the sense that you might be able to offload any car to someone eventually if you try hard enough. You responded selectively though. My main point was regarding the durability of a heavily modded engine without beefing things up structurally (in the engine & transmission).
Fair enough, I guess you and I disagree on "heavily modded". Other than the LSD, everything else is straight forward bolt on and easily reversed. Even the power mod raises boost very modestly, it's not like we are taking a 2L 4 cylinder and bumping boost from 12psi to 28+ like the Japanese Import crowd.
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      07-15-2007, 05:04 PM   #33
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because you'll actually be able to sell an M3 when you're done with it


if you claim the price diff is $15 grand

software $1300
wheels/tires $3000 (335 doesn't come with 19", if you're really trying for performance you wouldn't be throwing on $200 replica wheels made in some guys garage and general tires right)
LSD $2000
suspension $1500
exhaust $1200
alignment $200

you've eaten up half the price difference just in parts, throw in labor to install it all and you could have just gotten the M3, and you're still missing all the special bits that make an M3 an M3

???

PROcede ($1300)
Intercooler($1100)
LSD ($1700)
Exhaust ($1500)

Total= $5,600

And you still have another $9 ~ $12,000 to spend.

There is nothing special about making the 335 outpeform the new M3, it will happen. The question is, do you buy the M3 for all the tech-gizmos or for a better driving experience...??
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      07-15-2007, 05:12 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
???

PROcede ($1300)
Intercooler($1100)
LSD ($1700)
Exhaust ($1500)

Total= $5,600

And you still have another $9 ~ $12,000 to spend.
you total leaves out any suspension work, any brake work, wheels/tires

yeah, stock 335 suspension brakes and wheels are just as good as an M3...............

in any case, you're a joker if you think you're better off buying a cheaper car and throwing parts at it.

the 335 is a nice ride, but it is what it is, no matter how much money you throw down the tank on aftermarket items
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      07-15-2007, 05:17 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Garrett View Post
???

PROcede ($1300)
Intercooler($1100)
LSD ($1700)
Exhaust ($1500)

Total= $5,600

And you still have another $9 ~ $12,000 to spend.

There is nothing special about making the 335 outpeform the new M3, it will happen. The question is, do you buy the M3 for all the tech-gizmos or for a better driving experience...??
Have you actually read the posts in this thread? Do you want to start it all over again?
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      07-15-2007, 05:17 PM   #36
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Ward has a point, and good luck trying to sell the heavily modded 335. Most people would not want to pay extra for all the work thats been done, and it would be even more of a pain for you to part it out (perhaps costly).
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      07-15-2007, 05:21 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by ward View Post
you total leaves out any suspension work, any brake work, wheels/tires

yeah, stock 335 suspension brakes and wheels are just as good as an M3...............

in any case, you're a joker if you think you're better off buying a cheaper car and throwing parts at it.

the 335 is a nice ride, but it is what it is, no matter how much money you throw down the tank on aftermarket items



The 335 with those couple mods will street handle the M3. We are not talking about "tracking" or compitition. Becuase the 3 would need after market suspension..etc.

But, the 335 with just as little as $1300 will accelerate as fast as the new M3. It will also be more "drivable" due to the prodigeous amount of low-end torque. Most people don't take turn at 120mph so the delta between the 335 and the M3 is minimal. As will will see when some does a comparo between the 2.

MotoTrend did a huge thoughout comparison among the best handling cars. (911, Cayman S, Lotus, 335, EVo, ..etc.) If you read into the article and study the detailed graphes and test done you will see that the 335 would be alot higher if it came with an LSD and bigger tires. But thats taking it to the "nth" degree. Only a small portion of the populous has ever been there or drive there regularilly. It's most evendent on the weekend at tracks, where only a well seeasoned driver can make use of the added 1 ~ 5% potential.

Thats hardly a hurdle to overcome(LSD). As for point blank acceleration... yeah the 335 can equal or surpass the new M with 1 paycheck.

My point wasn't that your buying a better car or that it intrinsic karma is better. I'm saying you guys are dilusional if you don't think a 335 can equal 95% of the M's over-all performance matrix in all categories (even surpass them) for alot less....!!






-Garrett
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      07-15-2007, 05:35 PM   #38
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The 335 with those couple mods will street handle the M3. We are not talking about "tracking" or compitition. Becuase the 3 would need after market suspension..etc.

But, the 335 with just as little as $1300 will accelerate as fast as the new M3. It will also be more "drivable" due to the prodigeous amount of low-end torque. Most people don't take turn at 120mph so the delta between the 335 and the M3 is minimal. As will will see when some does a comparo between the 2.

MotoTrend did a huge thoughout comparison among the best handling cars. (911, Cayman S, Lotus, 335, EVo, ..etc.) If you read into the article and study the detailed graphes and test done you will see that the 335 would be alot higher if it came with an LSD and bigger tires. But thats taking it to the "nth" degree. Only a small portion of the populous has ever been there or drive there regularilly. It's most evendent on the weekend at tracks, where only a well seeasoned driver can make use of the added 1 ~ 5% potential.

Thats hardly a hurdle to overcome(LSD). As for point blank acceleration... yeah the 335 can equal or surpass the new M with 1 paycheck.

My point wasn't that your buying a better car or that it intrinsic karma is better. I'm saying you guys are dilusional if you don't think a 335 can equal 95% of the M's over-all performance matrix in all categories (even surpass them) for alot less....!!






-Garrett

As for me, I have to decide if the new electronically controlled suspension is a gimmick and offers real value over whats offered on a 335. I look at it this way. We all know what the 335 is, so what more does the M3 offer..?

Faster acceleration..?
Better breaking..?
Better cornering..?

I just wish Porsche would've put the N54 into their Cayman and have a better audio system.





-Garrett
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      07-15-2007, 07:46 PM   #39
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Does anyone else feel the 335i owners are overly negative on the M3 and try too hard to make a point?
Yes, there are quite a few of them that tend to hate on the M3.
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      07-15-2007, 07:48 PM   #40
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Some of you 'M' fanboi's people make me laugh.

BMW made a world-beating car with the 335i. We expected a world beating car with the M3, and so far there have been several disappointments, including the fact that you can take a 335i to the same level of equipment and performance as the M3 for $15K less well equipped. Argue all you want about that fact, please someone tell me how a 415 hp/295 TQ 'M' suspension modded M3 beats a 440hp/440tq suspension, wheels and LSD-modded 335i? Not going to happen, even if the M3 is underrated by 20HP. SAME CAR, different engine technology, less power in the M3. Swamp pitch in here because you claim the modded 335<the M3 in most performance measures....

In the meantime, now we hear the M3 runs N'ring times comparable or slightly better than the 911S. Encouraging! And how the 911S is the 'real' target. So, for the same money do I buy an M3 or a GT-R? The GT-R beats the 911TT! If you don't need a back seat the 'Vette, Cayman S, and Exige can play in this realm as well.

Or do we take the angle of the luxury coupe/sedan. The C63 has been tuned to handle by all accounts, and the CTS-V is strongly rumored to have 600HP, again at the same price points, and N'ring tuned. Or the modded 335i

I did a 2 yr lease on my 335i because I knew about these next generation cars. I have no loyalty to the 335i other than in the objective facts.

What I want is for the 'M' car to be special, nothing more, nothing less. I've been in the enthusiast, track, and racing game way too long to be blinded by a badge.


Thanks for proving our point.
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      07-15-2007, 07:50 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
LOL.

Since when does $52K = $67K (being generous here with the M3 pricing according to latest reports, assuming you can even get one)?

Car = $42K (can save another $3K here with ED, this includes PP, SP, heated seats)
Software = $1.3 installed
BBS forged wheels/tires = $4K installed
LSD $2K installed
3 way adjustable suspension (completely adjustable) = $2.5K installed, aligned, corner balanced

$51.8 total under this scenario

The wheels will be worth at least $1500 when you take them off in 3 years assuming no damage. The rest of the mods are probably throw away, though you may get some ebay value.
Trying hard to justify your decision, eh? Good for you. I'm sure the 335i is a wonderful car. Just not the same as an M3. If you like it so much, that's great. Go to the 335i board and discuss. What's the point of coming to the M3 board to rip on it? Penis envy?
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      07-15-2007, 09:29 PM   #42
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This thread is a great example why I don't read much here any more.
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      07-15-2007, 11:46 PM   #43
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m3 fanbois are douchetards
335 fanbois are douchetards

335 fanbois have convinced themselves their cars can beat m3s
m3 fanbois have convinced themselves their cars can time travel

out of the box, the m3 is [obviously] a better car, and the 335 is the next best non-M car in BMWs line up and has great aftermarket/tuner appeal. Can you make a 335 a "better" car. Depends; Faster, sure. Better handling, possibly. Retaining the reliability, resale potential, and warranty, probably not. But this is true of any car.
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      07-16-2007, 12:19 AM   #44
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There are "some" 335i owners / fanboys that think the 335i can stomp the ///M3. There are "some" ///M3 future owners / fanboys that think the 335i is nothing to worry about because the ///M3 is just that damn good.

I think the most logical and rational argument for the ///M3 is that you can get that performance, while still retaining your warranty. To some people, that is more important.

For everyone out there, there will always be a car that is faster or better at something than the car you have. Some cars corner better than others. Some accelerate better. Some are fast with mods. Some are beat up rustbuckets with big engine swaps.

The key is to ignore the BS, be happy with whatever car decision is best for you, and stop worrying about the size of your penis. The new ///M3 hasn't been track tested yet, and there also hasn't been a head-to-head in all situations between a modded 335i and the new ///M3. Until that happens, we don't know anything for sure. And even when we do know for sure, be informed about what you buy, and make the right decision for you.
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