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      07-14-2007, 04:33 PM   #23
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I only cry when I see that fat f@#ck Micheal Moore making so much money.
+10000000000000000 IMO micheal moore is a complete asshole and he needs to make his point in other ways. There are many things he left out in that movie. He wants to show all the bad things and make it seem like the US is so terrible. But then again its peoples dreams to move into our country.

Yes the healthcare system needs to change. But is it as bad as it seems in that movie? NO
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      07-14-2007, 07:23 PM   #24
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is he an asshole because he's concerned about serious real life problems, because 47M Americans have no insurance while an idiot throws away $1 trillion and the enemy is actually in better shape today than 6 years ago???

I see who's an asshole here...

If you don't like him, don't watch his movies. Unfortunately I have to live with the Bush robbing, like him or not...
Its a problem most of us, probably all of us, have delt with dirrectly or indirrectly. His methodology of exposing such "hard facts" is BS, therefore he is an asshole. Healthcare is an issue, no denying that, but I dont like Michael Moore's approch to this or any other issue he has "reported" on.
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      07-14-2007, 07:35 PM   #25
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Its all BS!!!!!!

Its really a comedy.

Isnt funny that he took some people to Cuba to the American base for treatment. Wasnt that the same place they accuse them of torturing the prisoners??? Ha ha ha, LMFAO!!!!
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      07-14-2007, 07:43 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by berm3 View Post
I only cry when I see that fat f@#ck Micheal Moore making so much money.


He should do a documentary on why he is so fucking fat and why the multibillion dollar fitness industry couldnt help him.
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      07-14-2007, 07:48 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by RRGOO7 View Post
+10000000000000000 IMO micheal moore is a complete asshole and he needs to make his point in other ways. There are many things he left out in that movie. He wants to show all the bad things and make it seem like the US is so terrible. But then again its peoples dreams to move into our country.

Yes the healthcare system needs to change. But is it as bad as it seems in that movie? NO
NO?????
It is much worse than that. Try losing you job for 3 months and you will realize how bad it is.
47 Million people realize it every day.

As for "people's dreams" you mentioned above -- the people that want to do it are either from very undeveloped parts of the worls (Haiti, Africa, parts of Asia), very shaken and isolated countries (Balkans, Cuba...), and so on. Those people don't even think about the healthcare issues...

Do not think that a regular, middle class person from the UK or Germany "dreams" about moving this way...
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      07-14-2007, 07:48 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by RRGOO7 View Post
+10000000000000000 IMO micheal moore is a complete asshole and he needs to make his point in other ways. There are many things he left out in that movie. He wants to show all the bad things and make it seem like the US is so terrible. But then again its peoples dreams to move into our country.

Yes the healthcare system needs to change. But is it as bad as it seems in that movie? NO
NO?????
It is much worse than that. Try losing you job for 3 months and you will realize how bad it is.
47 Million people realize it every day.

As for "people's dreams" you mentioned above -- the people that want to do it are either from very undeveloped parts of the worls (Haiti, Africa, parts of Asia), very shaken and isolated countries (Balkans, Cuba...), and so on. Those people don't even think about the healthcare issues...

Do not think that a regular, middle class person from the UK or Germany "dreams" about moving this way...
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      07-14-2007, 07:49 PM   #29
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and how the fuck does medical waste such as that guys middle finger end up in an Oregon landfill?
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      07-14-2007, 07:52 PM   #30
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and how the fuck does medical waste such as that guys middle finger end up in an Oregon landfill?

That was just a metaphorical scene- since they didnt re-attach his finger they probably threw it away. Thus it was waste (trash) and therefore probably ended up at a landfill.
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      07-14-2007, 07:55 PM   #31
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That was just a metaphorical scene- since they didnt re-attach his finger they probably threw it away. Thus it was waste (trash) and therefore probably ended up at a landfill.
why are you explaining complex things like that to a 12-year-old that cannot complete a sentence without 15 cusswords...
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      07-14-2007, 07:59 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by RRGOO7 View Post
+10000000000000000 IMO micheal moore is a complete asshole and he needs to make his point in other ways. There are many things he left out in that movie. He wants to show all the bad things and make it seem like the US is so terrible. But then again its peoples dreams to move into our country.

Yes the healthcare system needs to change. But is it as bad as it seems in that movie? NO

To be completely honest I would much rather live in Germany and the like countries. The only reason why people want to move here is because they have heard so much about it. When I was little I kept hearing people saying how free America is and how it's so perfect. It was only when I've lived here for a few years that I realized how unperfect it is.

As for the question of whether or not our system is that bad, IMO it's a yes. We pride ourselves on being the richest and most powerful nation in the world yet we rank 27th on the healthcare scale. Now what is that all about?


And yes I do agree with some of you in the sense that Moore only presents that harsh side of the argument. But then again that's the kind of stuff we need to know. Our government sugarcoats every goddamn thing so much we dont even know which is which anymore. Sure he might be biased but hey, at least he's presenting us with some cold hard facts (the kind of facts that are hard to ignore). I dont see anyone else arguing how good our system is...
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      07-14-2007, 08:00 PM   #33
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why are you explaining complex things like that to a 12-year-old that cannot complete a sentence without 15 cusswords...

lol I didnt realize he was 12.
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      07-14-2007, 08:55 PM   #34
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that's bs! You are required by law to treat anybody in need of emergent care regardless of coverage. That hospital just insured that it will be liable for the death of that child.
absolutely true. i haven't seen the movie yet, but from what was described, that's insane. You are required by law to treat anyone who needs immediate medical attention, whether it is at your private practice, or a hospital. At our hospital, we take care of everyone regardless of ability to pay, even illegal immigrants who rack up hundreds of thousands of dollars in hospital bills. We even pay for the air transport back to their countries. what the hell is going on in california????
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      07-14-2007, 08:58 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
why are you explaining complex things like that to a 12-year-old that cannot complete a sentence without 15 cusswords...
thanks. i really appreciate, doctor.
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      07-14-2007, 09:57 PM   #36
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In the Larry King interview Sanjay Gupta, the CNN medical correspondent whatever mentioned the long Canadian wait times. Moore fired back with the fact that in Canada no one was denied healthcare, hence the long wait times, while in the USA we've essentially removed (ie. denied) 47 million people who don't have healthcare, hence our short wait times. In other words, we don't have that extra 47M people in line with us to make the line (wait times) longer.

Something to think about.
ok lets think about this for a minute. 47 million people without healthcare??? Do some research, and find out how many of those people actually CAN afford insurance, but don't feel like spending money on insurance premiums, because it will cut into their drinking money. These 47 million people that everyone seems to care about actually HAVE access to healthcare. there are numerous free clinics that are privately funded that provide quality care to uninsured people. a large number of these patients end up not giving a shit about themselves or their bodies anyway. Additionally, there IS free healthcare. It is called MEDICAID. unfortunately, some people dont qualify because they make too much money i cant tell you how many patients that ive seen in the hospital who ask me to fill forms out so SSI/disability can pay for their nightly dose of malt liquor. the undomiciled people that i see are generally obese, drunk, belligerent, always in and out of the ER, get free healthcare at our clinic, and are always seen by the social worker to help enroll them in medicaid and some form of housing. if a homeless patient (probably one of the 47 million) needs a triple bypass, trust me, he will get it regardless of ability to pay. the hospital just takes the hit.
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      07-14-2007, 10:24 PM   #37
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i figure the movie wont do much, and our healthcare is driven by insurance companies and how to make more $$$ than anything else.


Its not that people cant afford healthcare, they dont want to pay for it, they dont go to the doctor when they are supposed to. They destroy their own body.

The system in california is a little different than most other states due to our population. In Southern California, the hospitals are filled with people who spend their money on Alcohol and drugs (many are not US citizens)

People need to learn how the health care system works where they live before they need it in an emergency way.


~fk
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      07-15-2007, 03:30 AM   #38
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I just finished the movie, and I can't say whether i agree with Mr. Moore or not on this issue, which isn't really important, but what i do have to say is that he does bring up a very good point and flaw in American society

I live in Canada, which has universal health care system, but it doesn't cover everything, I still have to pay my dental and for extra services like physiotherapy and things like that, its NOT covered, i just got my annual dental checkup last month and it costed me CDN$130 (USD$125), but luckily the university and i go to pay for 90% of that through our medical program which i have to pay $200/yr for and my mother needs to book an appointment for a mamogram (checks for breast cancer) 1 YEAR before the actual check up because the labs are so full of people, so is Canada's medical system perfect and free, NO!!!

But one thing i do have to say, whenever i go to America for vacation, i always buy traveling medical insurance, unless i am going to Seattle (which is only 80 miles away) because ive heard of stories of Canadians going to US and needed medical attention and it costed them several thousands of dollars because they buy didn't travel medical insurance

It should be like some countries in the world (ex. Hong Kong) where public and private health care systems co-exist, so for the people who CAN'T afford it can go public hospital (and pay for a very small charge for top-quality services) or for people who CAN afford it, can go private (and pay a lot more for the about the same quality of care, but wait less time)
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      07-15-2007, 12:14 PM   #39
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i cant stand that liberal fat fuck, and thats why i dont watch his movies.. fuck em.
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      07-15-2007, 12:19 PM   #40
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I just finished the movie, and I can't say whether i agree with Mr. Moore or not on this issue, which isn't really important, but what i do have to say is that he does bring up a very good point and flaw in American society

I live in Canada, which has universal health care system, but it doesn't cover everything, I still have to pay my dental and for extra services like physiotherapy and things like that, its NOT covered, i just got my annual dental checkup last month and it costed me CDN$130 (USD$125), but luckily the university and i go to pay for 90% of that through our medical program which i have to pay $200/yr for and my mother needs to book an appointment for a mamogram (checks for breast cancer) 1 YEAR before the actual check up because the labs are so full of people, so is Canada's medical system perfect and free, NO!!!

But one thing i do have to say, whenever i go to America for vacation, i always buy traveling medical insurance, unless i am going to Seattle (which is only 80 miles away) because ive heard of stories of Canadians going to US and needed medical attention and it costed them several thousands of dollars because they buy didn't travel medical insurance

It should be like some countries in the world (ex. Hong Kong) where public and private health care systems co-exist, so for the people who CAN'T afford it can go public hospital (and pay for a very small charge for top-quality services) or for people who CAN afford it, can go private (and pay a lot more for the about the same quality of care, but wait less time)


Your post pretty much sums up what I wanted to say in respond to a few other posts.

It's not about people who can afford insurance/healhcare but dont want to pay for it. It's about the people that CANNOT afford to. It's also about the people that get rejected because they have a pre-existing condition. I know some people that live in a house but cannot afford to pay for health insurance because it's just so damn expensive. Also, it depends on what you pay for it as well. The less you pay the less coverage you have.
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      07-15-2007, 03:00 PM   #41
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I find the funniest thing throughout all these posts are (except for ehhhwik) that all you guys go babbling on about is the availibility of upfront simple medical treatment. As Ehhhwik said, just because you socialize the medical programs doesn't mean you're completely covered for everything, let alone other medical practices like dental and vision.

Every one of you sidestep the capitalism vs socialism issue just because you want to sound upright being able to say you can help out those 47 million people without healthcare. It doesn't matter how you cut it in a capitalist society, there will always be someone who suffers. It's survival of the fitest plain and simple.

If we weren't capitalist we'd be in an even worse shithole, no flourishing markets (especially healthcare). You take away the incentive (money) for people to research and innovate and you end up with sub-par markets. What incentive is there for entrepeneurs to invest money into biomedical research when there's no return? No one gives a shit about people, it's the dollar. The sooner you realize that the sooner you'll see how flawed federaly socialized healthcare is.

Don't even get me started about immigration and other current social programs like welfare. We need serious reform in this country to get away from socialist systems. It does nothing but promote laze and lack of innovation and competition.
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      07-15-2007, 08:43 PM   #42
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I find the funniest thing throughout all these posts are (except for ehhhwik) that all you guys go babbling on about is the availibility of upfront simple medical treatment. As Ehhhwik said, just because you socialize the medical programs doesn't mean you're completely covered for everything, let alone other medical practices like dental and vision.

Every one of you sidestep the capitalism vs socialism issue just because you want to sound upright being able to say you can help out those 47 million people without healthcare. It doesn't matter how you cut it in a capitalist society, there will always be someone who suffers. It's survival of the fitest plain and simple.

If we weren't capitalist we'd be in an even worse shithole, no flourishing markets (especially healthcare). You take away the incentive (money) for people to research and innovate and you end up with sub-par markets. What incentive is there for entrepeneurs to invest money into biomedical research when there's no return? No one gives a shit about people, it's the dollar. The sooner you realize that the sooner you'll see how flawed federaly socialized healthcare is.

Don't even get me started about immigration and other current social programs like welfare. We need serious reform in this country to get away from socialist systems. It does nothing but promote laze and lack of innovation and competition.
Well you certainly stumbled upon one of my main criticisms of the us medical system and that is it is not based upon capitalism!!!!!

1st of all, you are NOT the customer in the US system! Your employer, the entity really paying the premiums is.

We need to make the patient the customer again.

Ever break your hand or arm? Ever ask how much it costs for everything they do in the emergancy room? No one actually knows! I asked out of curiosity. And no one knew what anything they are doing costs!!!! And it probably does not cost anyone the same amount...

The congress needs to ban tax deductions for medical expensis to corporations and make people pay for their own medical care. This will re-introduce capitalism into medical care. Congreass needs to regulate the industry to require them to insure all people. That way we spread the risk amongst all people because we all need medical care. But people are responsible for selecting their own plan just like auto insurance. That way companies will be required to comepete against each other (capitalism) but are required to sell insurance like auto insurance. This will help keep costs in line. Bring capitalism into the medical insurance and we will all be better off.

Capitalism is always the solution, never the problem.
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      12-29-2007, 09:33 PM   #43
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I just watched this and I know a lot of it is out of context and not fully disclosed, but even if 10% of it all is true which I'm sure it is, it's really sad.
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      12-29-2007, 10:23 PM   #44
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Some of you on here need to get your facts straight … please go out and do some research! When you start believing the propaganda that spews out of the big mouth of ‘fato’ Michael Moore, you begin to lose touch with reality.

You say 46 million don’t have insurance, but a high percentage of those have chosen not to have insurance.

You say people in Canada are not turned away, but many in the US are … please go read this article.

http://www.komotv.com/news/10216201.html

Some of you must get their news from Media Matters or MoveOn.org.

Wise Up!!
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