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      07-13-2007, 11:44 PM   #1
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SickO

I've just finished watching Sicko and wanted to cry. Some of the stories in there were just sad. It made me sick to my stomach at the same time. I think America's health system is so fucked up it's not even funny.

There was a story in there in which a little girl (4 years old I think) had a 104* fever. She was insured with Kaiser Permanante. Her mom called 911 and she was taken to the nearest hospital. The people there checked with the insurance company and denied treatment for the little girl because it wasnt a hospital that's within the Kaiser's network. The mother begged the doctors to help her little girl out but was removed from the hospital because she was deemed a threat. After 4 hours of delay they were transported to another hospital, just in time for the little girl to go into cardiac arrest. They worked on her for about 30 minutes when a doctor walked in to announce she's expired.

I wanted to start this thread to see what you guys think about the system we live in.


For those who are interested in seeing the movie, here's a free link.
http://www.tv-links.co.uk/show.do/9/4667
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      07-13-2007, 11:59 PM   #2
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3 of my friends saw it separately, and 3 of them told me they cried
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      07-14-2007, 12:19 AM   #3
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I'm glad I'm not with Kaiser Permanente..........they suck donkey balls!
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      07-14-2007, 02:31 AM   #4
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thats sad, never saw the movie, i dont like watching sad stuff ....but yeah the system is messed up, and someone needs to take care of that i rather pay higher taxes and have free medicine
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      07-14-2007, 02:49 AM   #5
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that's bs! You are required by law to treat anybody in need of emergent care regardless of coverage. That hospital just insured that it will be liable for the death of that child.
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      07-14-2007, 02:52 AM   #6
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There are pros and cons to social healthcare. Some states already employ a social healthcare system, like CA.

The great thing is that we'll all get the healthcare we need when we need it.

The cons are that socialism does not promote innovation at all. You may as well through the biomedical revolution out the window because there's really no incentive for entrepreneurs to invest in nerds with great ideas anymore in that market. Not to mention more taxes.


Look at the French social healthcare system, it's in shambles and the government is going bankrupt from it. I think we have too many people that will take advantage of the situation and will ruin it if it ever were put in place.
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      07-14-2007, 03:45 AM   #7
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Michael Moore is an ass. Here are some things he left out, Canada has the longest wait times for hospitals, france's taxes are ridiculous, and several other things. I love how he resources all of his information from different sources that all prove his point the best, not the most accurate. Healthcare in the US needs to improve yes, but Michael Moore made it seem much worse then it is.
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      07-14-2007, 05:44 AM   #8
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Not a fan of his negative work....
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      07-14-2007, 08:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schneid4323 View Post
Michael Moore is an ass. Here are some things he left out, Canada has the longest wait times for hospitals, france's taxes are ridiculous, and several other things. I love how he resources all of his information from different sources that all prove his point the best, not the most accurate. Healthcare in the US needs to improve yes, but Michael Moore made it seem much worse then it is.
is he an asshole because he's concerned about serious real life problems, because 47M Americans have no insurance while an idiot throws away $1 trillion and the enemy is actually in better shape today than 6 years ago???

I see who's an asshole here...

If you don't like him, don't watch his movies. Unfortunately I have to live with the Bush robbing, like him or not...
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      07-14-2007, 09:12 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schneid4323 View Post
Michael Moore is an ass. Here are some things he left out, Canada has the longest wait times for hospitals, france's taxes are ridiculous, and several other things. I love how he resources all of his information from different sources that all prove his point the best, not the most accurate. Healthcare in the US needs to improve yes, but Michael Moore made it seem much worse then it is.
I agree the Canadian health system is worse than the US in "some" ways, but we need people like Michael Moore to point out how mediocre our society has become.

Michael is not trying to put the US down by ranking it with different countries (this is not a race to the bottom), but he is merely pointing out how broken the system is.

I believe what Michael has done is to start a debate. For example:
1. Is the additional taxes worth having a better health care system? If so, how much?
2. If you want "free" (I am using the word loosely here) health care as in Canada, are you willing to put up with higher wait times?

Michael may have "made" it much worse than it seems, but there is currently no urgency in resolving these "problems" and he is merely trying to help expedite the resolution.

We just don't have enough people like him in Canada challening the status quo here, and that's the reason we are still playing second fiddle to the US.
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      07-14-2007, 09:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schneid4323 View Post
Michael Moore is an ass. Here are some things he left out, Canada has the longest wait times for hospitals, france's taxes are ridiculous, and several other things. I love how he resources all of his information from different sources that all prove his point the best, not the most accurate. Healthcare in the US needs to improve yes, but Michael Moore made it seem much worse then it is.
In the Larry King interview Sanjay Gupta, the CNN medical correspondent whatever mentioned the long Canadian wait times. Moore fired back with the fact that in Canada no one was denied healthcare, hence the long wait times, while in the USA we've essentially removed (ie. denied) 47 million people who don't have healthcare, hence our short wait times. In other words, we don't have that extra 47M people in line with us to make the line (wait times) longer.

Something to think about.
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      07-14-2007, 11:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeMyWife330i View Post
thats sad, never saw the movie, i dont like watching sad stuff that will make me cry....but yeah the system is fucked up, and someone needs to take care of that i rather pay higher taxes and have free medicene than this B.S. and instead of spending money on war in Iraq mofos couldve done something about medicine to the country....like Canada they have free medicine(i think)at least when i use to live there in Montreal, higher taxes but free medicine...and Canada never gets involved in shit thats not of their business y cant US be like that..

I usually dont watch documentaries (or movies like this) but this one sparked my interest. It's amazing what other countries are giving to their citizens and incredibly sick how we treat our own people.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuzpeed
that's bs! You are required by law to treat anybody in need of emergent care regardless of coverage. That hospital just insured that it will be liable for the death of that child.
Not really. Did you hear about the woman that died in the hospital because people did not help her? She was bleeding like crazy and her husband and relatives called 911 and begged the doctors to help her but they did nothing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i
is he an asshole because he's concerned about serious real life problems, because 47M Americans have no insurance while an idiot throws away $1 trillion and the enemy is actually in better shape today than 6 years ago???

I see who's an asshole here...

If you don't like him, don't watch his movies. Unfortunately I have to live with the Bush robbing, like him or not...
Agreed. I seriously think America should impeach Bush for what he's done. I mean it's been 6 years and we did not accomplish our original mission: to capture Osama. I think we've forgotten what our goal was. What was all this point in invading Iraq?? Everything here is pointless.

As for the enemies, they actually do get better healthcare than us. Guantanamo's Navy Base has has everything onsite (medical equipment) to take care of them. They receive pretty much top notch care compared to the rest of the US.


Quote:
Originally Posted by achien
I agree the Canadian health system is worse than the US in "some" ways, but we need people like Michael Moore to point out how mediocre our society has become.

Michael is not trying to put the US down by ranking it with different countries (this is not a race to the bottom), but he is merely pointing out how broken the system is.

I believe what Michael has done is to start a debate. For example:
1. Is the additional taxes worth having a better health care system? If so, how much?
2. If you want "free" (I am using the word loosely here) health care as in Canada, are you willing to put up with higher wait times?

Michael may have "made" it much worse than it seems, but there is currently no urgency in resolving these "problems" and he is merely trying to help expedite the resolution.

We just don't have enough people like him in Canada challening the status quo here, and that's the reason we are still playing second fiddle to the US.
This is exactly what I was thinking too. Most of us usually just go about our lives and will never notice things like this until it happens to us. People like Moore should be praised for bringing an important issue to our attention.


In the movie they showed an elderly being dropped off by a cab. She was disoriented and had no idea where she was. So she wondered around the streets and finally a nurse came out and brought her into a nearby shelter. Another elderly woman was dropped off at pretty much the same spot just because she couldnt pay her medical bills. She had unhealed stitches all over and she was in pain.

It's such a sad system that we live in. We're so much more capable than this. The US is the richest nation in the world yet we rank 27th on the healtcare scale. Even CUBA is better than us. We have presidents that cant do/wont do jack shit for the people. It's all about pleasing the bastards that give them money.
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      07-14-2007, 12:42 PM   #13
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I only cry when I see that fat f@#ck Micheal Moore making so much money.
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      07-14-2007, 01:12 PM   #14
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i will watch the movie now and share my thoughts when i finish it ^_^

thanks for sharing
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      07-14-2007, 01:33 PM   #15
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well, thats the way it is with a private health care system. We Canadaians, even thought it is run by the government, the quality of the health care still declines.
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      07-14-2007, 02:09 PM   #16
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I only cry when I see that fat f@#ck Micheal Moore making so much money.
well, if you would do something smart with your life instead typing stupid "fat guy" (which is 85% of the US population anyway) comments, you could be making $$$
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      07-14-2007, 02:14 PM   #17
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BTW, it is sad how some immediately jumped on the "canadian Healthcare" topic instead of the main point of the movie -- the US Healthcare. We claim to be the most advanced society in the world, the World police, but we deny the basics to more than 15% of our population. On the other hand, our leaders pulled us into this money spending mess with no clear plan and obviously with the wrong approach. And yet, we blame M. Moore for pointing out the flaws in our Healthcare system and reminding us that our Government is wasting billions and trillions while ignoring more important issues -- healthcare, education, social security...

And any time this topic comes up (impeach him, or investigate him), he either raises the threat level, or sends one of his puppets to tell us about his "gut feelings and threats" coming... Enough is enough...
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      07-14-2007, 03:08 PM   #18
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well, if you would do something smart with your life instead typing stupid "fat guy" (which is 85% of the US population anyway) comments, you could be making $$$
Did I strike the nerve with the fat guy comment? OHHH I'm sorry Doctor.
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      07-14-2007, 03:11 PM   #19
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The Canadian Healthcare is not worse than the US. There are wait list for specialty services, but in emergency situation you will get to see the Doctor.
The drugs in Canada are in most cases cheaper than the what we pay for here in the US.
Same can be said of Europe.

Like some you have eloquently written- the medical situation here in the US is appalling. It is sad and tragic, and that is what Michael Moore is trying to achieve.
What does Michael Moore want us to do:
1. Debate the issues rather than ignore the issues
2. He wants the best for his country and his fellow citizens. Call him a socialist all you want but the fact of the matter is Healthcare in this country is designed to make the Pharmaceuticals and HMO richer.

Would I rather pay higher taxes to have universal Healthcare for all Americans-yes.
Would I rather pay high taxes to have good educational system for the kids- yes.
Would I rather have the government negotiate with Big Pharma to reduce the cost of drugs- the answer is yes.
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      07-14-2007, 03:19 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr325i View Post
BTW, it is sad how some immediately jumped on the "canadian Healthcare" topic instead of the main point of the movie -- the US Healthcare. We claim to be the most advanced society in the world, the World police, but we deny the basics to more than 15% of our population. On the other hand, our leaders pulled us into this money spending mess with no clear plan and obviously with the wrong approach. And yet, we blame M. Moore for pointing out the flaws in our Healthcare system and reminding us that our Government is wasting billions and trillions while ignoring more important issues -- healthcare, education, social security...

And any time this topic comes up (impeach him, or investigate him), he either raises the threat level, or sends one of his puppets to tell us about his "gut feelings and threats" coming... Enough is enough...

Moore is a fat communist pig, that is stuffing his pockets with money, from the movies that he makes. If he realy wants to help people, he should donate more money to charities. "Should a 400 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption?"Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class?"
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      07-14-2007, 04:04 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by berm3 View Post
Moore is a fat communist pig, that is stuffing his pockets with money, from the movies that he makes. If he realy wants to help people, he should donate more money to charities. "Should a 400 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption?"Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class?"
So you will find the message acceptable if itwas brought to you by some skinny looking, rag-headed street dweller?
I guess you will call that person a skinny capitalist then.

Thank goodness Moore doesn't think the way most of his critics do:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19113385...wsweek/page/0/
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      07-14-2007, 04:06 PM   #22
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Moore is a fat communist pig, that is stuffing his pockets with money, from the movies that he makes. If he realy wants to help people, he should donate more money to charities. "Should a 400 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption?"Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class?"
Again, although your comment is not worth replying -- "the poster boy" did make his millions by doing something completely legally and paying his taxes for things he critisized...

And again, if you we as smart as you're fit, you would have discovered another way to make your own millions and stop being jelaous.

The pig in Washington made his money with oil, and still is making by stealing from us.
Oprah made her millions doing the same -- talking about over-consumption and claming to be a poster girl for the middle class...

So, realize, people make money, and you won't by surfing these forums and bitching at them...
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