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      07-22-2012, 11:16 AM   #1
Killerfish2012
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Just 2 seconds behind a BOSS 302 @ Mid America Motorplex

Just got back from a great weekend with the Mustang Central Club of Iowa @ Mid America Motorplex. Saturday had a high in the upper 90's, with a heat index above 100, so it was the hottest track day I've ever been a part of. My car even went into heat induced limp due to water temps for the first time ever. I was in the intermediate run group, and was lucky to run against a C5 Corvette Z06, 2011 Stang GT, and Mustang Boss 302!! All these cars were stock, while my 335I had the mods in my sig. This is also my first time running with catless dp's, and FMIC. I also used race gas for the first time. 3.5 gallons of 110 octane leaded (yes, I know it sez unleaded on the sticker, but you only live once). The track gave us all transponders for free, and posted the times through out the day.

Results:

Mustang boss 302: 1:53
My 335I: 1:55
C5 Z06: Transponder issues, but like the Boss, couldn't really pull away from me, and I would catch it on the 2,300ft straight.

Fastest cars of the day were a modded Mustang Boss Laguna Seca on hoosiers, and a caged out stripped out old school Porsche, both in the advanced group: 1:43

All in all, a great day at the track! great people, PLENTY of track time. Great to see just how much progress my car has made, with very basic performance upgrades. LSD, and alcohol injection, coming soon, which should put me with GTRs, and Porsches.
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Last edited by Killerfish2012; 07-22-2012 at 09:56 PM.
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      07-22-2012, 12:29 PM   #2
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I ran 110 leaded in my RS6 one time at Brainerd. Cost $3000 to replace the O2 sensors. Luckily it was covered under warranty.
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      07-22-2012, 06:59 PM   #3
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Are you trying to say you're 2 seconds behind the speed of sound sounds like you're really building out the car, looks good Maybe we'll get out there one more time before the years out. Keep practicing, I know I am
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      07-22-2012, 08:32 PM   #4
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Sounds like a blast. You will even have more fun with meth injection for your 335. Given that it significantly cools the intake charge, it helps the oil temps run cooler at the track under sustained WOT. I run 19psi peak boost with meth and track my car with zero limps...even in 100 deg temps in the SoCal desert tracks. Oil temps are a solid 250.
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      07-23-2012, 06:28 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Great to see just how much progress my car has made, with very basic performance upgrades. LSD, and alcohol injection, coming soon, which should put me with GTRs, and Porsches.
Most of the progress is probably improving your driving, especially since you are still in the intermediate group. It's good to see that you're enjoying it, but if you think any amount of mods will put your car even with a GT-R you're kidding yourself. My track oriented M3 isn't even close to a GT-R. It's good to keep things in perspective.

Jealous that they loaned everyone transponders though, never seen that at a DE.
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      07-24-2012, 10:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Are you trying to say you're 2 seconds behind the speed of sound
I knew I heard a couple of sonic booms back there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
sounds like you're really building out the car, looks good Maybe we'll get out there one more time before the years out. Keep practicing, I know I am
No problem. I have already taken October the 5th as a vacation day. Let me know closer to this event, if you can make it, on the 5th, or 6th.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/event/1367
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Last edited by Killerfish2012; 07-25-2012 at 09:19 PM.
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      07-24-2012, 10:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Sounds like a blast. You will even have more fun with meth injection for your 335. Given that it significantly cools the intake charge, it helps the oil temps run cooler at the track under sustained WOT. I run 19psi peak boost with meth and track my car with zero limps...even in 100 deg temps in the SoCal desert tracks. Oil temps are a solid 250.
Thanks for the advice, but I'm leaning more towards water/alcohol injection. Both do the same things. Glad to see a fellow 335er on here.
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      07-24-2012, 10:49 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Most of the progress is probably improving your driving, especially since you are still in the intermediate group.
The guy in the boss has a way more experienced driver than me, and has been doing it longer than me. I do like 4 HPDE events a year max, and have been making driver progress very slowly. Believe me, it's the mods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
It's good to see that you're enjoying it, but if you think any amount of mods will put your car even with a GT-R you're kidding yourself. My track oriented M3 isn't even close to a GT-R. It's good to keep things in perspective.
We'll see. Klammer's M3, which is just a tad more modified than yours does road america in 2:40. The fastest I've personally seen a GTR do is: 2:46. Unless the owner invests in cooling mods, that car gets slower each time it goes around. This I've seen in person.
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Last edited by Killerfish2012; 07-25-2012 at 09:20 PM.
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      07-24-2012, 10:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiation Joe View Post
I ran 110 leaded in my RS6 one time at Brainerd. Cost $3000 to replace the O2 sensors. Luckily it was covered under warranty.
Good advice. It was a one time deal. My O2 sensors are fine. The track ran out of 100 unleaded, and I had to do something about the crappy Iowa 91 octane, I had.
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      07-24-2012, 11:28 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
We'll see. Klammer's M3, which is just a tad more modified than yours does road america in 2:40. The fastest I've personally seen a GTR do is: 2:46. Unless the owner invests in cooling mods, that car gets slower each time it goes around. This I've seen in person.
You're confusing one person's lap time with the capability of the car. I don't know how well Klammer can drive; I don't know how the GT-R driver could drive. Either Klammer kicks ass, the GT-R driver sucks, or a combination.

What I do know is that a GT-R is WAY faster than a M3. I am not offended by that; I bought my car with that knowledge. For reference, I ran a 2:10 in a stock GT-R at VIR, and my best in a stock M3 was 2:17. Same driver (me) same track, same conditions. Not even close. Yes, the GT-R's do overheat after a few laps.

In those sessions, I did high 150's, close to 160mph, in the GT-R and right at 149-151 in the M3. So some disadvantage in straight speed and in grip. Both speeds were speedo-indicated, I'm sure they are both optimistic.

I'm not hating on the M3, I love my car. But it is nice to stay in the realm of reality, where M3's are slower around a track than GT-R's, and 335's are slower than M3's.

Last edited by Porschefile; 07-24-2012 at 11:34 PM.
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      07-25-2012, 07:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile
Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
We'll see. Klammer's M3, which is just a tad more modified than yours does road america in 2:40. The fastest I've personally seen a GTR do is: 2:46. Unless the owner invests in cooling mods, that car gets slower each time it goes around. This I've seen in person.
You're confusing one person's lap time with the capability of the car. I don't know how well Klammer can drive; I don't know how the GT-R driver could drive. Either Klammer kicks ass, the GT-R driver sucks, or a combination.

What I do know is that a GT-R is WAY faster than a M3. I am not offended by that; I bought my car with that knowledge. For reference, I ran a 2:10 in a stock GT-R at VIR, and my best in a stock M3 was 2:17. Same driver (me) same track, same conditions. Not even close. Yes, the GT-R's do overheat after a few laps.

In those sessions, I did high 150's, close to 160mph, in the GT-R and right at 149-151 in the M3. So some disadvantage in straight speed and in grip. Both speeds were speedo-indicated, I'm sure they are both optimistic.

I'm not hating on the M3, I love my car. But it is nice to stay in the realm of reality, where M3's are slower around a track than GT-R's, and 335's are slower than M3's.
He's right. GT-R's are much faster. In the advanced group the GT-R's I know of do Road America in the low to mid 2:30's and at Autobahn where I am pretty consistent around 2:52-2:54 (with the occasional dip to 2:50 if conditions are right) the GT-R's I run with are running mid 2:40's. Those are both some long tracks that reward the higher HP cars. Would love to think its a drivers race vs. the GT-R but know that's not true. Still trying to get to RA in October on your dates. Either way, our cars do pretty well for the 4 door family saloons that they are
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      07-25-2012, 08:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Either way, our cars do pretty well for the 4 door family saloons that they are
Agreed. Although mine is a 2 door family saloon.
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      07-25-2012, 09:49 AM   #13
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A 2:46 at Road America is a decent 2008-2009 era Spec Miata race pace, that's what I needed for outside pole at the june sprints in '08 in the car in my signature. GTR's should be in the low 2:30's driven well.
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      07-25-2012, 09:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
I'm not hating on the M3, I love my car. But it is nice to stay in the realm of reality, where M3's are slower around a track than GT-R's, and 335's are slower than M3's.
I think you may have miss understood me. I'm comparing a modded M3, like Klammer's/modded 335I like mine, to a Stock GTR. Stock, I don't think they will do better than Mid 2:40's at Road America in the summer, especially after a few really hard laps. I've personally witnessed them fade, and fade away. The GTR I saw was in the advanced group, with a C6 Z06, and Audi R8. All three of these cars got lapped time, and time again, buy a supercharged lotus. Now if you are talking modded GTR, compared to a stock or modded M3/335I, then all bets are off, obviously.

Again, I'm not trying to say that the stock GTR I saw was slow. The first 3 laps, it was pretty much there with the Z06, R8, and lotus, but after that, it faded. I spent time talking mods with the owner, and he was looking into a tranny cooler.
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      07-25-2012, 09:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
A 2:46 at Road America is a decent 2008-2009 era Spec Miata race pace, that's what I needed for outside pole at the june sprints in '08 in the car in my signature. GTR's should be in the low 2:30's driven well.
Mid 2:30's is stock C6 Z06 territory. That's very fast. I'm not sure a stock GTR can touch that.
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      07-26-2012, 07:47 AM   #16
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Not sure if you're trolling... but a GT-R is at least as fast as a C6 Z06, and your car would need to be a full-blown racecar to come close (stripped, 2+ way dampers, slicks, etc.). It's great that you enjoyed your track day, but you need to stay in reality here.

A stock GT-R has over 500hp and handles better than a M3 (much less a 335). Where do you see your car matching a GT-R? Acceleration? Handling? The e-diffs and AWD are like a cheat code. The one I drove could pass a well-driven E92 M3 at 7/10 probably, and it was on freaking all season tires.
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      07-26-2012, 07:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Mid 2:30's is stock C6 Z06 territory. That's very fast. I'm not sure a stock GTR can touch that.
I am.
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      07-28-2012, 06:42 AM   #18
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I think comparing lap times is pointless unless you eliminate the biggest variable...the driver. You'll probably be a little slower when you first install the LSD since it will change how the back end of the car behaves. It will go from flaccid to quite lively.
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      07-28-2012, 11:09 AM   #19
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I think comparing lap times is pointless unless you eliminate the biggest variable...the driver.
So car and driver's lightning lap, has been pointless, since they use different drivers for each of those cars, and then post the times?
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      07-28-2012, 12:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
So car and driver's lightning lap, has been pointless, since they use different drivers for each of those cars, and then post the times?
Their drivers are not a random sample of talent like you get at a track day.

Example: I was at Miller last week and was faster in my mostly stock E90 on AD08 street tires than a Laguna Seca Boss 302 on Hoosiers and a GT3RS on sticky tires in the advanced group. Both of those cars with those tires should blow my M3 out of the water at that track.
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      07-28-2012, 12:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
So car and driver's lightning lap, has been pointless, since they use different drivers for each of those cars, and then post the times?

They dont pull some hack off the street for the day for their comparo's

Agree - you comparing yourself against other cars in the intermediate group is pointless unless you are comprable drivers. I pass exotics and even race prepped cars all the time. Doesn't mean my car is faster. TJ Bell passed me in a spec miata at the Glen, must of been the car.......
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      07-28-2012, 01:26 PM   #22
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Quote:
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They dont pull some hack off the street for the day for their comparo's

Agree - you comparing yourself against other cars in the intermediate group is pointless unless you are comprable drivers. I pass exotics and even race prepped cars all the time. Doesn't mean my car is faster. TJ Bell passed me in a spec miata at the Glen, must of been the car.......
That also happens a fair bit in the Advanced/Instructor group More than a few of us got passed by an overachieving Cobalt SS at different times at our home tracks.Was it the car or the driver willing to run closer to the edge?
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