BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
GetBMWParts
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-17-2012, 11:29 AM   #23
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Subaru Legacy GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

Posts: 1,846
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
Here is another clueless guy. The m3 puts down more torque in every single gear to the wheels than the vette. The vette pulls soley due to much lower weight (about 300 pounds less). Calculate the torque to the wheels yourself if you don't believe it. Multiply the m3 final drive, times each gear times the torque max and do the same for the vette. The m3 has huge mutliplication from gears so the vette does not have the "torque" as you say
At any given instant, it's power and weight that determine acceleration. Torque, not so much.

The M3 can pretty much hold its own (or even pull out on) the Vette off the line because it's easier to launch. Those PS2s work well compared to the runflats in the Vette. In addition, the shorter gearing in the bimmer means that it can climb the power curve quicker than the Vette does in first gear, thus temporarily lessening the Vette's power to weight advantage. From second gear on, the Vette will pull on the M3.

Still, the M3 is a bit of an overachiever compared to the Vette in a quarter mile, and the results are surprisingly close. Granted, the Vette is pulling nicely on the bimmer at the finish line, and will continue to pull after that.

Overall, its close enough so that, if you line up with an M3 in your plastic bullet, better bring your A game, or you might get some exhaust blown in your grille, especially if it's an automatic M3.

Bruce
bruce.augenstein@comcast. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 02:41 PM   #24
WRXXX
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: E92 SG M3
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto

Posts: 260
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Torque to the wheels is the sole thing that ultimately determines acceleration along with weight. HP is the better measure than engine torque but actual torque at the wheels is the direct force which moves a mass which is the acceleration equation. So its wheel torque /mass if proper units are used which gives acceleration
Oh no, not another HP/TQ breakdown again. Head hurts
WRXXX is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 02:44 PM   #25
CCLSVTM3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: Interlagos blue E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Burbank, CA

Posts: 528
iTrader: (1)

Not to long ago, I was driving on the 10 fwy in SoCal around midnight. A yellow vette with a wicked sounding exhaust rolled along side of me. He rev'ed up several times so I downshifted to third and we took off. He pulled to about just in front of my car and that was it. I was able to stay there a few ft behind his rear bumper. I have very minimal mods, and I'm guessing it was an automatic vette or we was just toying with me. I didn't expect to stay there with him to about 125 mph when he let off to exit the freeway.
__________________
BMC filter, OEM Exh Mod, ESS Direct Flash tune, flat black kidney grills, color painted front reflectors, LUX Angel eyes, -2012 SVT Raptor 4 dr -09 E90 M3

CCLSVTM3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 10:10 PM   #26
muskamatt
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: e92 335i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 349
iTrader: (0)

How about on a track? No one wants to bring that up?
muskamatt is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2012, 11:19 PM   #27
bruce.augenstein@comcast.
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: Subaru Legacy GT
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Manheim, PA

Posts: 1,846
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by m3alabama View Post
Torque to the wheels is the sole thing that ultimately determines acceleration along with weight. HP is the better measure than engine torque but actual torque at the wheels is the direct force which moves a mass which is the acceleration equation. So its wheel torque /mass if proper units are used which gives acceleration
Of course you're correct, but when doing calculations it's a bunch easier to just work with power, since it simplifies everything. If two cars are side by side when they punch it, the one making more power to weight at that instant will pull on the other car, torque and gearing be damned.

Of course I'm ignoring differences in aerodynamics, rotational inertia, rolling resistance, etc.

Bruce
bruce.augenstein@comcast. is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2012, 02:29 AM   #28
chris719
Lieutenant
 
Drives: '08 M Roadster
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: NJ

Posts: 411
iTrader: (0)

It's shocking how few people understand the relationship between crank torque, hp, and wheel torque. Great to see for once there is no confusion in a thread.
chris719 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2012, 02:36 AM   #29
swamp2
Major General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 9,939
iTrader: (1)

^ Way too optimistic. I've seen quite a few threads where folks clearly do not understand the difference. Hopefully it won't turn into another one of those threads...
__________________
E92 M3 | Space Gray on Fox Red | M-DCT | CF Roof | RAC RG63 Wheels | Brembo 380mm BBK |
| Vorsteiner Ti Exhaust | Matte Black Grilles/Side Gills/Rear Emblem/Mirrors |
| Alekshop Back up Camera | GP Thunders | BMW Aluminum Pedals | Elite Angels |
| XPEL Full Front Wrap | Hardwired V1 | Interior Xenon Light Kit |
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2012, 10:08 PM   #30
NYC6
Banned
 
Drives: '10 135i PPKI/06 C6 Z51 Vette
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: LI/NY

Posts: 2,078
iTrader: (0)

I dont often pop in to this section but did tonite. I own a LS2 C6. Its far from stock now but when it was I ran several V8 M3's. From a dig and roll the stock Vette pulled them pretty good. Light weight, 400ft lbs and 285 rear tires see to that pretty well. Very low 4s 0-60's are the norm and all that TQ really comes in handy for hwy rolls.
NYC6 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2012, 05:58 AM   #31
kotik
Lieutenant
 
kotik's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 M3 ESS 575
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Germany

Posts: 521
iTrader: (0)

no chance with the c6

I'm SC and I'm affraid of stock z06's... i'm pretty sure a bolt on ls3 could also give me a run for the money...
kotik is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2012, 10:21 AM   #32
NYC6
Banned
 
Drives: '10 135i PPKI/06 C6 Z51 Vette
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: LI/NY

Posts: 2,078
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kotik View Post
no chance with the c6

I'm SC and I'm affraid of stock z06's... i'm pretty sure a bolt on ls3 could also give me a run for the money...
Very nice, what S/C? What kind of numbers does your M make.
NYC6 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2012, 10:59 AM   #33
PaneristiDriver
Banned
 
Drives: M3 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Here and there

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
I ran a stock c6 in both my Porsche and my m3 and I pulled away slowly in the Porsche but the vette was slightly faster than my dct m3 and it was an auto vette.
This sounds about right. A 997 Carrera S 2009+ will handily beat a DCT or 6mt M3 (even larger margin if its PDK) and will also beat a base C6 Vette though it will be closer.
PaneristiDriver is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2012, 11:18 AM   #34
konaforever
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2009 Red GTR
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Boston, MA

Posts: 234
iTrader: (0)

I'd like to run against a base C6 in my GTR, even though I'm not stock. I'd like to see the difference!
konaforever is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2012, 03:33 PM   #35
KKM3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 504
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaneristiDriver View Post
This sounds about right. A 997 Carrera S 2009+ will handily beat a DCT or 6mt M3 (even larger margin if its PDK) and will also beat a base C6 Vette though it will be closer.
I love my Porsche it never lets me down
KKM3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2012, 05:16 PM   #36
fusionchicken
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: LS3 Z51 C6
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: socal

Posts: 291
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by konaforever View Post
I'd like to run against a base C6 in my GTR, even though I'm not stock. I'd like to see the difference!
Lol that's just mean

You will walk a stock c6z if your r35 has any mods
fusionchicken is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-20-2012, 02:30 PM   #37
konaforever
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2009 Red GTR
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Boston, MA

Posts: 234
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fusionchicken View Post
Lol that's just mean

You will walk a stock c6z if your r35 has any mods
True! But it would be fun to run one.
konaforever is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-23-2012, 02:58 AM   #38
kotik
Lieutenant
 
kotik's Avatar
 
Drives: e90 M3 ESS 575
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Germany

Posts: 521
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC6 View Post
Very nice, what S/C? What kind of numbers does your M make.
ESS 575... I don't know what it makes they say it should be around 510-520WHP.
kotik is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-23-2012, 09:19 AM   #39
fll335
Major
 
fll335's Avatar
 
Drives: C6 Z06, X5M
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: FL

Posts: 1,197
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fusionchicken View Post
Lol that's just mean

You will walk a stock c6z if your r35 has any mods
A 2009 GTR needs at least cobb stage 1 to keep up with a Z06 (stock) on a highway roll.
fll335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-23-2012, 01:24 PM   #40
lenzm3edan
First Pride
 
lenzm3edan's Avatar
 
Drives: E90, Mercedes C300, subi
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut..

Posts: 1,349
iTrader: (6)

Ok, what about stock C6 vs modded M3?
__________________
ESS VT-2 595 silverstone E90 /// M3 - 6spd - AD08 - Spacers - H&R - AA exhaust - Primary cat delete - Custom test pipes - ESS tune - Lighted ZHP.

lenzm3edan is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-23-2012, 02:10 PM   #41
PaneristiDriver
Banned
 
Drives: M3 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Here and there

Posts: 130
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lenzm3edan View Post
Ok, what about stock C6 vs modded M3?
Youre probably going to at very minimum need no primary cats, pulley, filter, and tune to keep pace.
The video on m5board of the 997.2 pulling bus lengths on that m3, the m3 has an exhaust and tune and dct yet still gets demolished by a stock pdk 997.2S which runs a little bit faster than a c6 in a straight.
PaneristiDriver is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-23-2012, 02:30 PM   #42
Onurleft
Captain
 
Onurleft's Avatar
 
Drives: RPM
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Baton Rouge and Atlanta

Posts: 862
iTrader: (0)

Stock LS3 6 Speed automatic


A significant amount of power is lost through the torque converter so a manual car with the "right" driver is going to have a solid pull

The LS2 car is where it's very close.
__________________
Onurleft is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-23-2012, 07:47 PM   #43
KKM3
Lieutenant
 
Drives: E92 m3 + r8 v10
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 504
iTrader: (0)

A dct equipped m3 should beat an auto vette with 400 hp. If ur talking about the ls2 with 430 hp it will be very very close.
KKM3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-23-2012, 09:31 PM   #44
alms211
Banned
 
Drives: 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: MD

Posts: 746
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
A dct equipped m3 should beat an auto vette with 400 hp. If ur talking about the ls2 with 430 hp it will be very very close.
The ls3 is the one making 430 hp
alms211 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST