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      07-12-2007, 01:45 PM   #45
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C55 AMG is just as fast as M3 E46 around N-ring. My point with the post? go figure.......
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      07-12-2007, 01:46 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisolphaln View Post
My point is that I do not believe the e92 M3 will do any more than EQUAL the competitions' CURRENT offerings in the BEST CASE scenario for the M.

When the e46 M3 came out it was YEARS ahead of anything the competition put out there and blew away it's current competition. I was expecting this of the new M3, but it obviously will not happen. That is why the M3 is no longer KING.
Because you say the old M3 "was YEARS ahead of anything the competition put out there and blew away it's current competition" which made it KING and the new M3 doesn't do those things, that it is no longer KING?
You can only be KING if you blow away the competition?
So tell us who the new KING is?
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      07-12-2007, 01:47 PM   #47
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wouldn't pay too much attention to autoexpress, autocar.co.uk is the better weekly car mag IMO.

remember that the previous generation e46 M3 CS beat the RS4 in EVO mag, a highly respected mag here in the UK. So I am waiting until the end of the month to hear their opinion.

cheers

Last edited by dazzapb; 07-12-2007 at 02:22 PM.
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      07-12-2007, 03:42 PM   #48
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Like most males, I like to read my car mags when sitting on the throne - you know the score, it's the only time you can get some peace from the kids and the wife asking you to put the rubbish out

Anyway, I wouldn't wipe my AR$! with Autoexpress, let alone read it on my throne.

When I am king, sitting on my throne, EVO is my read. That's what I am waiting for
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      07-12-2007, 03:52 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002 Tii View Post
Moss, how dare you put up a post in this forum that shows the RS4 beating an M3? I for one do not believe in the validity of this article and think this is yet another attempt by "haters".
99.9% of us here have not driven the RS4 and 100% have yet to drive the M3 but we ALL know Audi is a porker (BMW brochoure, M3=1655 KG RS4=1725KG) 154lb difference. If I ever get a in a street battle with an RS4 with my wife on aboard, hell I'll just toss her out of the car to keep the weight advantage.
Finally, I think you should be banned from this site to set an example for all other people who may post negative comments about M3 in the future.
M3 RULES AND IS THE UNDISPUTED KING
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      07-12-2007, 04:22 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Because you say the old M3 "was YEARS ahead of anything the competition put out there and blew away it's current competition" which made it KING and the new M3 doesn't do those things, that it is no longer KING?
You can only be KING if you blow away the competition?
So tell us who the new KING is?

I think you misunderstood him. All he said is he felt the new M3 doesn't stand out amongst the competition anymore. He didn't say there is a new king. Whether or not there is a new king or everyone is on the same level are two different issue. It's up to the antagonist to prove otherwise. Personally I feel it's a little too early to have a verdict but according to most primarily reviews the new M3 isn't as edgier as the old.
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      07-12-2007, 04:34 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
I dont care about winners what I like to read is that the M3 is the drivers car between these two. Thats all I've been asking for. I hope the trend continues.
That's all I need to hear, because until now, there wasn't a lot of perspective, but to know the already decent RS4 is bested by our new hero, is great news.

Still, when you consider the RS range is the equivalent to the CSL, the RS5 is going to appear mighty tame in comparison, regardless of power. The S and M ranges are the true rivals traditionally.
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      07-12-2007, 05:00 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002 Tii View Post
Moss, how dare you put up a post in this forum that shows the RS4 beating an M3? I for one do not believe in the validity of this article and think this is yet another attempt by "haters".
99.9% of us here have not driven the RS4 and 100% have yet to drive the M3 but we ALL know Audi is a porker (BMW brochoure, M3=1655 KG RS4=1725KG) 154lb difference. If I ever get a in a street battle with an RS4 with my wife on aboard, hell I'll just toss her out of the car to keep the weight advantage.
Finally, I think you should be banned from this site to set an example for all other people who may post negative comments about M3 in the future.
M3 RULES AND IS THE UNDISPUTED KING
Was this a joke? I hope so. other wise you are a sad sad little man.
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      07-12-2007, 05:04 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adrock View Post
Was this a joke? I hope so. other wise you are a sad sad little man.
I think the guy was simply being sarcastic. That's when the smilies help...
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      07-12-2007, 08:02 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
I am only here to clarify some of the informations you guys have it wrong.
Now, I took the liberty (a while ago, before seeing this post) to check on the different website about the RS4 weight, in Europe and in US. In US the car is declared to be at 3957lbs(unladen weight). I am sure some of you will be really happy to see that number. But that is (1) either a mistake or (2) the car being heavily modified to fit the US stupid rules.
I don't care about what the RS4 weights in the UK, Hungary, or Germany since I live the US. And the official US Audi website says the car weighs 3957 lbs (unladen). The car is currently on sale in the US, so I must assume that is correct, or it would be have been corrected by Audi a long time ago. So, as far as the US consumers are concerned, you aren't really making a relevant point here. You should go ask Audi why the car weighs more in the US, not us or BMW. As far as I know, the US spec weight of the M3 has not been released yet. The official press release had the Euro spec weight. So, I can't speculate on what the weight difference will be here.
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      07-12-2007, 08:06 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002 Tii View Post
Official BMW brochure gives a 70KG advantage to M3 compared to RS4.
errr...and the magazine says RS4 < M3 by 5kilos
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      07-12-2007, 08:25 PM   #56
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I donít care what any magazine says. In the end most of these magazines are in bed with the car manufactures anyway. But I talk from experience. I had a E46 great car. I am the new owner of a RS4..I just love every aspect of this car, the ergonomics, drivability, performance can be driven 12 months out of the year, and most of all, every where I go, I get stopped with a million questions, fingerprints on my window you name it. The fact remains, BMWs are a dime a dozen, there is no novelty in the car anymore. Every fringing body has one. But the RS4, hmm have not seen one in my area of NY since I got my 4 months ago and the exhaust just intoxicating. I can tell you that I see the new 3 series every dam day. I am glad I made the decision I did, I hate pulling up next to someone that is driving my car. In the end you will make your own decision, if you are unsure, go with the RS4, worth the $$ and is cheaper than the BMW.
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      07-12-2007, 08:38 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintenasi View Post
You should care, because every single M3 fan here (almost, there are a few straight BMW fans that are not) is trying to find a glitch in the article, even the smallest one, just to take down the whole test, because they are not happy with their result. I am not asking anybody what is the deal with the EU<>US weight for the RS4, I just put down some info for clearing the "glitch" out, the article did not make a mistake when saying the RS4 is lighter than the M3. That was my whole point, the RS4=M3=1650kg, with the quattro, with all the liquids in the car to make it work(oil, windshield washer, etc). Unladen weight. It is the same kind of weight, I am not wrong.

Again, that doesn't mean zip to me. I live in the US. I'll compare the numbers when the US M3 weight is released.

The article is simply a driving impression, useful to some, but not to anyone who already knows about the cars. There is no "test" here without instrumented performance comparisons in somewhat controlled conditions.
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      07-12-2007, 08:40 PM   #58
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Audi still state "unladen" weight numbers by DIN standards, not by EU ones like BMW do.

The difference between standards is exactly 75kg (68kg driver, 7kg cargo).

So, to compare the numbers you should always:

a) add 75kg to Audi weight figures, or
b) take away 75kg from BMW weight figures.




So, the comparable figures are:

by EU standard: 1,655kg (M3) vs 1,725kg (RS4), or
by DIN standard: 1,580kg (M3) vs 1,650kg (RS4).


The fact:

RS4 is 70kg heavier than M3.

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      07-12-2007, 08:42 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_Defector View Post
The fact remains, BMWs are a dime a dozen, there is no novelty in the car anymore. Every fringing body has one. But the RS4, hmm have not seen one in my area of NY since I got my 4 months ago...
Yeah, you haven't seen one because people are turned off by that hideous disproportioned nose/grill Audi started sticking in their cars a few years ago. For that reason only, I will not buy an Audi. Yeah, the new BMWs are not stunners either, but at least they don't look plain ugly to me.
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      07-12-2007, 10:20 PM   #60
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Whether the RS4 weighs 200kg or 500kg more than the M3

It remains the faster vehicle. It remains the better daily choice for driving. Since my place of employment and residence is not on a racetrack, guess I'll stick with the heavier, um porker as it was called. Better yet, I'll wait for the RS5
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      07-12-2007, 11:38 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by who_me View Post
It remains the faster vehicle. It remains the better daily choice for driving. Since my place of employment and residence is not on a racetrack, guess I'll stick with the heavier, um porker as it was called. Better yet, I'll wait for the RS5
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOL hi OT View Post
Wow you **** get all pussyhurt Because the M# got beat out by a clearly superior car?
The M3 is a totally overrated piece of shit that shouldn't even be seen next to the superior RS4
lol. first off, you guys are pretty sad to come here from your audi forum just to stir up drama. i guess it's pretty stagnant in the audi world these days

as far as the article goes, they do a great job of writing about their opinions of both cars but they fail to provide any facts to back them. let's look at the facts, shall we?

RS4:
0-200km/h = 16.6 seconds
100-0 km/h = 37m
nurburgring laptime: 8:09 --- 151.656 km/h – Audi RS4, 420 PS/1728 kg (sport auto 06/06)

e92 M3:
0-200km/h = 15.8 seconds
100 - 0 km/h = 34m
nurburgring laptime: to be determined but faster than the 911 carrera S per this article link to article
*note* the 997 carrera S laps the nurburgring in 8:05 for reference: 8:05 --- 152.907 km/h -- Porsche 997 Carrera S, 355PS/1461kg (sport auto 05/05),

Audi R8:
0-200km/h = 16.2 seconds
100-0km/h = 34m
nurburgring laptime: 8:04 --- 153.223 km/h -- Audi R8, 420 PS/1595 kg (sport auto 07/07)


from the looks of it the RS4 is not competition for the M3 as far as sheer performance goes...more like the R8 better watch its back. oh and i won't go into how much more the audi costs, but let's just say that the dollar/performance ratio ain't that great for the audi.

as far as which car is more daily driver friendly, or whatever the hell that article tries to compare, you're more than welcome to let the RS4 win that one...that's not what an M car is about. have fun with your commuter car
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      07-13-2007, 12:39 AM   #62
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0-60 in 4.9 secs??? That is incorrect. Makes me not believe the entire article if they can't even get that right.
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      07-13-2007, 01:26 AM   #63
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Lol....what a mess this thread is becoming.
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      07-13-2007, 03:35 AM   #64
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It has come apparent that some are so blinkered on here that they will ignore anything that is written that is even slightly negative about the car - the dealers just love idiots like them - little boys brainwashed handing over all their money....and crying on the way home as they 'drift' round the street corners and realise that they should have bought a 911 afterall.

Others who discuss logically, will drive away their car, having bought it accepting that it re-writes few rules, but that it offers an awesome blend of everyday practicality and performance - they are the ones who will smile for years to come. I know which camp i'm in :@)
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      07-13-2007, 03:53 AM   #65
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exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2002 Tii View Post
Official BMW brochure gives a 70KG advantage to M3 compared to RS4.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregA View Post
Audi still state "unladen" weight numbers by DIN standards, not by EU ones like BMW do.

The difference between standards is exactly 75kg (68kg driver, 7kg cargo).

So, to compare the numbers you should always:

a) add 75kg to Audi weight figures, or
b) take away 75kg from BMW weight figures.




So, the comparable figures are:

by EU standard: 1,655kg (M3) vs 1,725kg (RS4), or
by DIN standard: 1,580kg (M3) vs 1,650kg (RS4).


The fact:

RS4 is 70kg heavier than M3.


confirming what we suspected as obvious - that audi's heavy quattro drivetrain and minimal use of weight saving materials translates to a heavier car, not a lighter one.
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      07-13-2007, 04:03 AM   #66
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Maturity

Many of the pro-Audi and anti-BMW comments really show the maturity of the posters. I think most folks here, like myself prefer BMW but prefer it because it is typically a better performance car while still offering comfort and a bit of luxury. Also, like most here, I actually LIKE the RS4 a lot. That is a truly fantastic engine and a great looking car. So, first to all of you rude, immature haters with nothing concrete to say besides your little false, teasing, snippets go back and crawl under your rock and let the rest of us
intelligently reveiw and compare both cars and this "review" itself.

Based on the 2WD system, the CLEAR, the undisputed weight advantage (apple to apples of course), the much less parasitic drivetrain losses and BER as well the M3 will be putting SIGNIFICANTLY more power to the ground than the RS4. And it's power to the ground to weight ratio (not the crank hp to weight ratio!) really blows the Audi away. Those numbers are M3: 3649/(420*.85) = 10.2 lb/hp, RS4: 3803/((420-5)*.8) = 11.5 lb/hp. This is a 13% advantage and this is HUGE, it is simply BMWs "efficient dynamics". Surely to the uninformed this will sounds like a poor devastated fan boy using math to dispute a magazines flawless verdict. Oh well, math is math, it works and you simply can not beat physics. I am confident in real tests it will out perform the RS4 in almost all speed contests except ones where the 4WD may give it a small jump on the take off. The M3 is going to beat the RS4 in braking, ring time, and price as well. Heck read the review; it already says in so many places that the M3 is a better performance/sports/track car, over and over again.

It does suck that there are such poor articles like this they will be haunting us forever, even after some real tests like EVO come out.

Last edited by swamp2; 07-13-2007 at 04:25 AM.
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