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      07-12-2007, 08:45 AM   #23
Just_me
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Thanks for the scans but is the RS4 really 5 kg lighter than the M3?

Im looking forward for more comparions, particulary german Sportauto. One review isnt enough for me

PS in Sweden, the price difference between M3 and RS4 is a lot larger than in UK
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      07-12-2007, 08:51 AM   #24
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Thanks for the scans... looks like they didn't notice the cup-holders in the M3
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      07-12-2007, 08:53 AM   #25
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Moss, thank you for posting the full article.

I noticed that according to the article, the RS4 is 5kg lighter than the M3. That simply cannot be correct.

I am interested that there are fairly comprehensive performacne figures for the M3 in the article. I wonder how the author obtained them. From the information available, it does not seem that there was time for any of the reviewers who attended the Ascari event to perform instumented tests.
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      07-12-2007, 08:57 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moss View Post
I can't help wondering what more there really is to know. The m3 is better on the limit and for track work. For those wanting a track car the M3 is the best. For those wanting and allrounder the RS4 is the best. Either way, which ever car you pick, you end up with a bloody great car - isn't that all that really matters?
If you want a track car, get a Lotus or Caterham. The M3 is no track car either.
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      07-12-2007, 08:59 AM   #27
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If you want a track car, get a Lotus or Caterham. The M3 is no track car either.
*Yawn*
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      07-12-2007, 09:03 AM   #28
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I am unable to comment on the accuracy of the report - I just wanted to give the info to others on here - i have been waiting for reports like this for months (years really) - so wanted to share - and I'm glad that there are some on here who have balanced discussions.

I am happy to say that I love the new M3 - I am a little disappointed that the reviews have not been raving reviews, but I am prepared to accept that the car is maybe not a good as perhaps it may have been - I am happy after reading numerous reviews to accept that the people writing them know plenty about cars - i think it's arrogant to dismiss their views when they, not us, have actually driven the car.

I have not read anywhere that the M3 is a dud, so i'm not sure why people on here take it so personally when people review the car as great, but not 'rewriting the book'.

I am not sure about the weight issue - perhaps someone else can clarify this. I can't really see why perfomance figure can not be correct - they had the car for two days - i'm sure with GPS etc 0-60 times etc must only take a few minutes to set up and of course they will already have the figures for the RS4.

Considering the RS4 is held up as one of the all time great cars, that the M3 is within a wisker must make it a bloody great car too. Other than a few who track these cars, who's gonna notice the differnce anyway?

I think the M3 really needs the Dual Clutch gearbox - if it's good, it might make this car truely great.
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      07-12-2007, 09:50 AM   #29
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Moss, how dare you put up a post in this forum that shows the RS4 beating an M3? I for one do not believe in the validity of this article and think this is yet another attempt by "haters".
99.9% of us here have not driven the RS4 and 100% have yet to drive the M3 but we ALL know Audi is a porker (BMW brochoure, M3=1655 KG RS4=1725KG) 154lb difference. If I ever get a in a street battle with an RS4 with my wife on aboard, hell I'll just toss her out of the car to keep the weight advantage.
Finally, I think you should be banned from this site to set an example for all other people who may post negative comments about M3 in the future.
M3 RULES AND IS THE UNDISPUTED KING
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      07-12-2007, 09:52 AM   #30
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I guess my biggest disappointment is that the new M3 seems to be JUST barely at or a little below the level of the CURRENT competition. It is neck and neck with the RS4, maybe comparable to a current 997, and possibly almost equal to the AMG C63 due out next year.

I was expecting the e92 M3 to be much better than these auto's and set the benchmark for Audi, Porsche, and MB to aspire to meet with future models. Instead, BMW seems to have MAYBE just "caught-up" to the competitions' current line-up with the M3.

I had expected the M3 to set the standard, this does not seem to be the case. While it may be a great car, the reviews so far do not proclaim it to be the new benchmark. And for all who will say "wait for more reviews" or "what these reviewers really said or really meant was...", I say that if the new M3 was definitely better than the competition, the reviews would have unequivocally said as much.

So to my point - I want the car that is the benchmark, setting the standard for all the other competitors to try to acheive. This USED to be the M3. Based on everything I have seen so far, the new M3 will NOT BE THE KING it once was.

Disappointed.
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      07-12-2007, 09:59 AM   #31
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Regarding the EDC, I have PASM with my Boxster S after 5,000km the verdict is out, while having 2 ride modes is cool but the whole system (developed by Bilstein) makes the car more remote and less involved. After reading the review even before trying it, I won't make the same mistakes again, no EDC.
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      07-12-2007, 10:02 AM   #32
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Good post aerisolphaln
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      07-12-2007, 10:16 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
Thanks for the scans but is the RS4 really 5 kg lighter than the M3?
No, it's significantly heavier, but then maybe that will tell you the kind of car magazine Auto Express is.

They are not interested in "drivers" cars, more just satisfying the mass market general consumer.
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      07-12-2007, 10:18 AM   #34
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aerisolphaln, I agree. But maybe our expectations were too high because of the way the E46 took the M3 into another level six years ago. At the time no one even imagined an M3 that would rival a 911, today people expect the M3 to beat a 911.
And it's not that the E92 is not a GREAT car, it's just that other manufacturers are also making great cars. Who could imagine the baby AMG with nearly 500HP and 0-130mph that matches an F430?
Now the choices are either to ignore the reality of the competition getting bigger and better or to sit there and cry about why M3 is no longer the undisputed king.
I still think the E92 will be a great car but as a consumer I'm thrilled that there are other choices.
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      07-12-2007, 10:23 AM   #35
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Official BMW brochure gives a 70KG advantage to M3 compared to RS4.
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      07-12-2007, 10:31 AM   #36
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Ugh - Sports car or luxury car test

From reading the text and not looking at the stats the M3 sounds like the clear winner as well as when judging solely on performance and track capability (no it is not a bloody "purpose built" track car...).

"BMW is the sharper drivers car."

"The BMW is unquestionably the better option on the track or on an empty road"

"there's is no real step up in luxury or sportiness from a conventional 3." - blatantly false - no sportiness step up???

"[the BMW] is more accomplished if you are considering track use"

"[in the most aggressive mode the M3] rewards in a way the RS4 simply can't"

"[the RS4] does not provide the same on-the-limit grip of the BMW"

"on the track [the RS4] feels slightly less honed than the M3"

Next gripe is the performance numbers. I just don't buy them. The M3 has a much better power to weight ratio, BER, much less tranmission losses and it still loses most of the acceleration contests? VERY DOUBTFUL! Heck I don't want to be one who devalues concrete tests and real data/specs but this is simple too hard to swallow. Just like the first "initial reviews" had some negativity that has been replaced by more balanced reviews I think this one may go by the wayside as well.

I guess I did expect the M3 to really blow the RS4 away, impressive that it didn't but not sure this rag used the same criteria I will use.
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      07-12-2007, 10:37 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
"there's is no real step up in luxury or sportiness from a conventional 3." - blatantly false - no sportiness step up???
Do you have lights in your house? Or are you just blinded by the 'M'blem?

Yet more independent confirmation of my (and others) position.

PS although I would take an M3 over an RS4 anyday.
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      07-12-2007, 10:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdiver68 View Post
Yet more independent confirmation of my (and others) position.
I think rather the converse is true: which "conventional 3er" matches the M3 for "sportiness"?
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      07-12-2007, 10:59 AM   #39
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Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
I think rather the converse is true: which "conventional 3er" matches the M3 for "sportiness"?
The review claimed that the M3 is not a step up in sportiness from the regular 3er. I say that is beyond blatantly false. How could someone make such a blatantly false statement? To any logical being sportiness is practically synonymous with performance. To say the M3 does not offer more performance than any other 3er is ridiculous. Maybe I have mis-read or misunderstood some odd British definition of "sporty"?
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      07-12-2007, 11:09 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisolphaln View Post
I guess my biggest disappointment is that the new M3 seems to be JUST barely at or a little below the level of the CURRENT competition. It is neck and neck with the RS4, maybe comparable to a current 997, and possibly almost equal to the AMG C63 due out next year.

I was expecting the e92 M3 to be much better than these auto's and set the benchmark for Audi, Porsche, and MB to aspire to meet with future models. Instead, BMW seems to have MAYBE just "caught-up" to the competitions' current line-up with the M3.

I had expected the M3 to set the standard, this does not seem to be the case. While it may be a great car, the reviews so far do not proclaim it to be the new benchmark. And for all who will say "wait for more reviews" or "what these reviewers really said or really meant was...", I say that if the new M3 was definitely better than the competition, the reviews would have unequivocally said as much.

So to my point - I want the car that is the benchmark, setting the standard for all the other competitors to try to acheive. This USED to be the M3. Based on everything I have seen so far, the new M3 will NOT BE THE KING it once was.

Disappointed.
Aeris, you make some good points. I share the concern that M may not have raised its game far enough to meet the competition that inevitably will emerge during the fairly long life cycle of the car. If I recall correctly, during the life cycle of the E46 M3:

MB released the C32 with its supercharged V6, and then superceded the C32 with the C55 with its big V8.

Audi released the B6 S4 with a V8, improved it slightly (and hit it with an ugly stick) with the release of the B7 S4, and then at the end of the E46 M3 model life, Audi released the present RS4 with power equal to the still not on sale M3.

I think at least with respect to the RS4 there is no question the car exceeds the E46 M3 in most performance metrics.

Will a similar pattern occur during the lifecycle of the E92 M3, or will the E92 be eclipsed by a competitor even earlier in its life cycle? I don't know, but I have been concerned about this question since the power specs were officially published.

Time will tell.

I am encouraged by some of the more recent performance figures for the E92, such as the 0-200 time which is very good.
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      07-12-2007, 11:40 AM   #41
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It's really simple...you buy the E92 M3 or you don't. You can debate it all you want..it won't make it any better or worse. When you pull up beside me in your RS4, trust me I won't be envious. IMO, I'd take the M3 over the RS4 or 911 anyday and be happy with it. I don't see many other cars in the price range that I'd rather have. I don't need to drive "the King of cars" to feel good about the decision I'm making. If I wanted the $150,000 car, I'd buy it but IMO it's a waste of cash.
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      07-12-2007, 12:05 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Aeris, you make some good points. I share the concern that M may not have raised its game far enough to meet the competition that inevitably will emerge during the fairly long life cycle of the car...
...
Will a similar pattern occur during the lifecycle of the E92 M3, or will the E92 be eclipsed by a competitor even earlier in its life cycle? I don't know, but I have been concerned about this question since the power specs were officially published.

Time will tell.

I am encouraged by some of the more recent performance figures for the E92, such as the 0-200 time which is very good.
My point is that I do not believe the e92 M3 will do any more than EQUAL the competitions' CURRENT offerings in the BEST CASE scenario for the M.

When the e46 M3 came out it was YEARS ahead of anything the competition put out there and blew away it's current competition. I was expecting this of the new M3, but it obviously will not happen. That is why the M3 is no longer KING.
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      07-12-2007, 01:22 PM   #43
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I wonder how AutoExpress was able to do the performance testing they have in this article while no other magazine were allowed to use the test equipment that would be needed to make these comparisons.

Sounds like the M3 is still the driver's car from the article.
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      07-12-2007, 01:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E36325is View Post
Regarding the EDC, I have PASM with my Boxster S after 5,000km the verdict is out, while having 2 ride modes is cool but the whole system (developed by Bilstein) makes the car more remote and less involved. After reading the review even before trying it, I won't make the same mistakes again, no EDC.
Swamp just posted some info on the EDC. It seems to be "active" only in the more "comfortable" two settings, and switches to a "passive" mode in the sport setting so that the concern you raised with PASM would not be applicable to the M3 with in EDC while driving in sport mode.
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