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      09-04-2012, 12:12 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
That is odd .

Mashing the gas in first gear going straight will definitely get the rear tires spinning in my car (using Michelin PSS). If the road grip is not perfect, I can get wheel spin in 2nd gear too .
Maybe a difference between DCT and 6MT? I mean if i launch hard off the line they will spin but if I'm rolling at say 3-4k RPM in 1st with the clutch disengaged and just mash it.. it doesn't spin til I hit 2nd. Even in light rain...
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      09-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
I hate to break it to some users
But If you need DSC to avoid crashing
You are not a good driver, period

What did people do in the 90s before stability control was standard?
They did not crash all the time and kill countless little children
Some did, but I guarantee you, the ones that crashed are the same class of driver who buys an M3 to show off with, even though his driving skills aren't at it's level.

People here act like turning off DSC is the same as playing Russian roulette
It's not, if you know what you are doing
And if you don't, then you really shouldn't be driving this car.
I second and third this! 30 years of driving and not one chargeable accident, with just 1 ticket while cruise control was set 8 over on the NJ turnpike in 1993 and another in 2007 for 10 over on a wide open interstate outside of Phoenix.

I am not a professional driver by any means, but I have a lot of experience with rear wheel drive cars with no driver aids. Sure, I've had a spin or three along the way in my teenage days, but none of those cars had any DSC other than my right foot. Once I get comfortable with my cars, the electronic aids always come off if the road is dry. There were a few times that traction or stability control probably would have gotten my killed. ABS, is about the one thing I truly love as far as driver aids go.

Find somewhere safe to learn the limits of your skills and the abilities of your car. We will all be safer for it.
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      09-04-2012, 08:36 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by JZBE92 View Post
a u t o c r o s s
+100000000
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      09-04-2012, 10:18 PM   #70
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Hi Guys

Just back from a track day yesterday, this is an interesting thread. No rant, but do not try DSC off on any normal road! Seriously.

I have had about 10 training sessions with our local NZ BMW instructor and can nearly do it, that said had a couple of proper spins! Takes many hours to perfect...

Just so much fun and super satisfying, 3rd gear power slides, just like top gear, are definitely worth learning, on an airfield, dry lake etc, and the M3 just loves it...

Good luck!
Cheers
stu


Last edited by kiwistu; 09-05-2012 at 09:00 PM.
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      09-05-2012, 12:05 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwistu View Post
Hi Guys

Just back from a track day yesterday, this is an interesting thread. No rant, but do not try DSC off on any normal road! Seriously.

I have had about 10 training sessions with our local NZ BMW instructor and can nearly do it, that said had a couple of proper spins! Takes many hours to perfect...

Just so much fun and super satisfying, 3rd gear powers slides, just like top gear, are definitely worth learning, on an airfield, dry lake etc, and the M3 just loves it...

Good luck!
Cheers
stu

That looks like so much goddamn fun. Way jelly haha. I might have to take some advanced driving courses down the road to learn how to really drive this thing!
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      09-05-2012, 12:20 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
When Chuck Norris drives with DSC off, the back end doesn't slide out, it's the earth being knocked off of its center of axis.
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      09-05-2012, 04:53 AM   #73
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my first attempt w dsc off at a closed parking lot...so hard!

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      09-05-2012, 10:05 AM   #74
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^^^ At least you're smart enough to play around in a parking lot instead of the street/curbs/etc.
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      09-05-2012, 09:06 PM   #75
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Nice work OM3N!!
BTW the performance exhaust sounds great!!
Cheers
stu
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      09-06-2012, 02:24 PM   #76
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I drive in MDM about 99% of the time. I went to DSC Off only three times--

1) Alone in the car, in an empty parking lot, to test how easily the back end would get loose and generally have a little fun.
2) Alone in the car, in light rain on empty roads in Long Island. This was probably the most fun I've had driving my car, and I definitely "drifted" (I think skidded is more apt) into a few high visibility / large run-off turns.
3) This was probably my only mistake. I was with my buddy who drives an S5. He wanted me to push the throttle at a standstill and see how aggressively she would "peel out" -- I think we burned rubber, in place, in the middle of Queens Boulevard for 3 to 5 seconds at high RPM (no brake) before I let off the throttle and she gained traction. This could have been a massive ticket, and I was genuinely surprised with how aggressive it was.

Anyway, here's my question-- for those of you that drive with regular traction control on, do you often get a DSC Activated light on your dash board? I.E. are you unwilling to go to DSC Off because you often exceed the limits of your car and need to use DSC, or is it purely as a "just in case" precaution?
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      09-06-2012, 04:40 PM   #77
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I made a similar mistake. DSC was off from a hard acceleration from a stop light. I forgot to turn it on when rounding a corner at a green light and punched it. Over corrected and spun around into an on coming Kane before stopping facing the wrong way. I am not interested in doing this again and save the hard turns for the track and feel less inclined to push limits into sliding on public roads.
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      09-06-2012, 04:56 PM   #78
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So my cars in my early 20s were LS-1 F-bodies. Turned off DSC in a lot today for a little testing. Seems pretty tame and controllable compared to those led sleds but definitely will fling you around if you're not careful.

Is there some sort of torque converter in the DCT transmissions that bumps up the revs when you floor it from a roll in 1st? I spin up top and if I drop the clutch a little but if I just roll into it from 2500 I won't spin til 2nd. This thread concerns me that my car may be down on power.

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      09-06-2012, 06:31 PM   #79
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I don't think your car or our cars are down on power. I can't break the tires loose in 1st when I mash the pedal. They chirp and sometimes spin when I shift to second, but no massive tire spinning/smoke. If my numbers are correct, the 6mt has more torque put to the ground than the DCT in 1st. However through the other gears (2-6) DCT has slightly more.

Manual: 1st gear 4.055 x final drive 3.846 x 295 ft. lbs = 4,600

DCT: 1st gear 4.780 x final drive 3.154 x 295 ft. lbs = 4,447
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      09-07-2012, 03:32 AM   #80
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I grew up without DSC. It won't save you from being stupid. Actually I think it causes more problems than it solves. I have had students spin with DSC on and wonder why. I get in the car with them and turn off DSC and guess what, they stop driving like gas pedal is an on/off switch. You should be the DSC.

And best place to practice is on a closed course.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ok2lInklm8&feature=plcp

Car control clinics, autocross, slalom, go to one get someone that knows what they are doing to ride with you and practice.
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      09-09-2012, 03:27 PM   #81
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dmk and jjw--

Maybe it was the weather or road I was on, or maybe I just got lucky, but I was definitely in first and spun the tires for 3-5 seconds... when I looked back (partly to make sure the 5-0 wasn't coming to put me in cuffs), there was a bunch of smoke and tire marks for a solid 5 yards.

I wish I had it on tape!

Rob
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      09-09-2012, 09:00 PM   #82
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Rob, that must've been fun. Maybe my lack of wheel spin has to do with my tires (Michelin PSS). Or I'm a baby with the gas pedal...

I want to dyno my car now.
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      09-09-2012, 09:15 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghetto2315
Chuck Norris drives with DSC off
Chuck Norris's car comes specially equipped with dynamic instability. He is the control.
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      11-11-2012, 08:49 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robz26 View Post
dmk and jjw--

Maybe it was the weather or road I was on, or maybe I just got lucky, but I was definitely in first and spun the tires for 3-5 seconds... when I looked back (partly to make sure the 5-0 wasn't coming to put me in cuffs), there was a bunch of smoke and tire marks for a solid 5 yards.
What tires?

I suspect some combination of tires and the Power button is the real culprit. Let me guess... you had it at the highest setting? I never do that. I street drive with it on the normal setting, and put it in the middle to help heel-toe downshifts on the track (which is the only good reason I can see for it).

I've now turned off DSC lots of times, during late night drives on lonely roads, and it's really not as bad as many here say. Maybe my tires are just awesome, but even on cold, wet roads it's not unmanageable. You just need to know how to apex properly, and avoid doing anything stupid. And keep the Power in standard mode (or stick to MDM, if not).
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      11-11-2012, 11:31 PM   #85
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Yeah. Max power, S6, comfort EDC, OEM Pirellis.
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      11-11-2012, 11:51 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robz26 View Post
Anyway, here's my question-- for those of you that drive with regular traction control on, do you often get a DSC Activated light on your dash board? I.E. are you unwilling to go to DSC Off because you often exceed the limits of your car and need to use DSC, or is it purely as a "just in case" precaution?
Only had the light come on a few times when taking a sharp corner then punching it. Otherwise, I am not foolish enough to drive so aggressively on the street where breaking traction is a concern. Judging by the rest of your post you seem like a candidate to start one of the "so I was pushing my car and totaled it" threads in the near future. Be safe out there and remember other people can get hurt too.
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      11-11-2012, 11:55 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robz26 View Post
Anyway, here's my question-- for those of you that drive with regular traction control on, do you often get a DSC Activated light on your dash board? I.E. are you unwilling to go to DSC Off because you often exceed the limits of your car and need to use DSC, or is it purely as a "just in case" precaution?
There is one intersection with a slight right turn that will give me DSC Activated light if I give it more than about half throttle. I think it is because the road is a little bumpy. A buddy at work has a 800 hp Shelby Mustang. He says the got his car sideways the other day in that same spot. So yeah, the DSC is great. I can't recall the DSC activated light going off any other times. I've only had the car a few months.

Is it really worth it to go DSC OFF over MDM?

Crashing is very bad isn't it??
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      11-12-2012, 12:07 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast
Only had the light come on a few times when taking a sharp corner then punching it. Otherwise, I am not foolish enough to drive so aggressively on the street where breaking traction is a concern.
Judging by the rest of your post you seem like a candidate to start one of the "so I was pushing my car and totaled it" threads in the near future. Be safe out there and remember other people can get hurt too.
Umm, mind getting off the high horse and reread my posts? I don't take DSC off on public roads. I've turned it off a total of three times since I've owned it, since living in NYC I have less of an opportunity to find empty parking lots or go tracking-- I would only drive DSC off in those controlled situations.

I have never crashed a single car or mine or been involved in another accident. I understand a lot of this is luck, but I am also an ultra-aware and defensive driver (e.g. one time traffic stopped suddenly on the highway, i put my hazards on, but noticed the car approaching me not slowing down, I pulled into the shoulder and avoided a 30mph+ direct hit. )

If was very rude for you to judge my driving style from a few message board posts and claim I would end up causing an accident.
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