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      07-16-2012, 11:33 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
You should be thankful that you did not hurt someone's child riding in another car on the side of the street you ended up in. Pitiful your thoughts are only for your car.
vz
This. DSC off should be reserved for the track. This car is much too powerful to be fooling around on the street with DSC off. Sorry, just had to say it.
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      07-16-2012, 11:45 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLoven View Post
This. DSC off should be reserved for the track. This car is much too powerful to be fooling around on the street with DSC off. Sorry, just had to say it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by von_zoom View Post
You should be thankful that you did not hurt someone's child riding in another car on the side of the street you ended up in. Pitiful your thoughts are only for your car.
vz
You're both 100% right. It was a bone headed mistake that I'm not trying to make excuses for or justify.

I am, of course, first and foremost thankful that my error didn't lead to anyone being hurt.
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      07-16-2012, 12:00 PM   #25
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      07-16-2012, 12:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
I turned my DSC totally off on Thursday and thought I had turned track mode DCS back on when I came around a turn and booted it.
Track mode as in MDM?

IMO you should treat driving with MDM on the same as if you have DSC off -- it should be a safety net for if you make a mistake, not an electronic nanny to intentionally trigger. Outside of helping to prevent instances like this, it just teaches and reinforces better driving habits, especially if you later drive a car without electronic aids!
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      07-16-2012, 12:25 PM   #27
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DSC off is soooooo dangerous if you do not know what you are doing. i was in full mode on sat and took a turn a little too much and felt the correction, just as a car passed by on the left. were i in DSC off, he would have had a face full of my left rear. would have been a disaster.
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      07-16-2012, 12:46 PM   #28
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a u t o c r o s s
This man knows what he speaks.
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      07-16-2012, 01:24 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
Track mode as in MDM?

IMO you should treat driving with MDM on the same as if you have DSC off -- it should be a safety net for if you make a mistake, not an electronic nanny to intentionally trigger. Outside of helping to prevent instances like this, it just teaches and reinforces better driving habits, especially if you later drive a car without electronic aids!
I have an E46 M3, so I don't have an MDM. The track mode I was referring to is the traction mode that comes on the comp package that's activated with the steering wheel button.
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      07-16-2012, 01:52 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McLoven View Post
This. DSC off should be reserved for the track. This car is much too powerful to be fooling around on the street with DSC off. Sorry, just had to say it.
I'm sorry, but anyone that requires DSC to "save their bacon" on the road (in anything but severely traction compromised situations) really shouldn't be driving this car. Some of these recent threads about the trouble people get into simply turning the DSC off make me think there's a decent number of people buying this car that shouldn't. If you can't handle the car in controlled circumstances with DSC off, there's a good chance you can't handle the car with DSC on in a panic/emergency situation.

I'm not mentioning this as a reason to drive around on the street with DSC off; frankly if it's that intrusive, you are probably driving poorly. However, if DSC off gets you in that much trouble, such jumping medians or spinning the car, I'd say it's time to either get a different car more within your driving limits, or get some classes to improve your driving skills stat.
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      07-16-2012, 02:25 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
I'm sorry, but anyone that requires DSC to "save their bacon" on the road (in anything but severely traction compromised situations) really shouldn't be driving this car. Some of these recent threads about the trouble people get into simply turning the DSC off make me think there's a decent number of people buying this car that shouldn't. If you can't handle the car in controlled circumstances with DSC off, there's a good chance you can't handle the car with DSC on in a panic/emergency situation.

I'm not mentioning this as a reason to drive around on the street with DSC off; frankly if it's that intrusive, you are probably driving poorly. However, if DSC off gets you in that much trouble, such jumping medians or spinning the car, I'd say it's time to either get a different car more within your driving limits, or get some classes to improve your driving skills stat.
this is crap. the reason why accidents are lower these days (and also much less severe) is because of the electronic nannies that protect you in situations beyond your control. the big muscle cars of the 70s crashed all the time. even the good drivers crashed em

you are giving your self FAR too much credit as a good driver
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      07-16-2012, 03:03 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by highyo View Post
this is crap. the reason why accidents are lower these days (and also much less severe) is because of the electronic nannies that protect you in situations beyond your control. the big muscle cars of the 70s crashed all the time. even the good drivers crashed em

you are giving your self FAR too much credit as a good driver
Or protect you when you are driving like an idiot. The fact is that people drive like idiots all the time and you can't stop that. But you can equip these cars with nannies that reduce the risk of a crash. And that is why on the street the nannies should be left on.
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      07-16-2012, 03:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by McLoven View Post
Or protect you when you are driving like an idiot. The fact is that people drive like idiots all the time and you can't stop that. But you can equip these cars with nannies that reduce the risk of a crash. And that is why on the street the nannies should be left on.
this. the point is, its not really too hard to act like an idiot in this car. with or with out dsc/mdm
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      07-16-2012, 03:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highyo View Post
this is crap. the reason why accidents are lower these days (and also much less severe) is because of the electronic nannies that protect you in situations beyond your control. the big muscle cars of the 70s crashed all the time. even the good drivers crashed em

you are giving your self FAR too much credit as a good driver
Well, since you have absolutely no idea how good of a driver I am, your opinion is worth as much to me as it cost you to give it. That said, I'm going on 20+ years of absolutely no involvement in any chargeable accidents (myself or anyone else), so I might know a thing or two about driving safely on the street.

That said, you missed my point entirely. I'm not doubting DSC isn't effective, in fact I've never driven with it all off since I've owned the car, and I've probably driven <5% in MDM. However, the main reason why stability control is lowering accident rates is that about 80-90% of the population in the US drives like crap, mostly due to our lax licensing laws, so for that population, every little bit helps. Furthermore, yes the 60/70s muscle cars did crash a lot because (all gross generalizations) a) they had no suspension b) they had no brakes c) lots of bad drivers back then too, some things never change. My real point was that if 5 minutes after turning DSC off you get yourself into (or close to) an accident on dry roads, perhaps it's time to consider a car with lower limits, and work your way up to an M3 once driving skill improves.
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      07-16-2012, 03:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
Well, since you have absolutely no idea how good of a driver I am, your opinion is worth as much to me as it cost you to give it. That said, I'm going on 20+ years of absolutely no involvement in any chargeable accidents (myself or anyone else), so I might know a thing or two about driving safely on the street.

That said, you missed my point entirely. I'm not doubting DSC isn't effective, in fact I've never driven with it all off since I've owned the car, and I've probably driven <5% in MDM. However, the main reason why stability control is lowering accident rates is that about 80-90% of the population in the US drives like crap, mostly due to our lax licensing laws, so for that population, every little bit helps. Furthermore, yes the 60/70s muscle cars did crash a lot because (all gross generalizations) a) they had no suspension b) they had no brakes c) lots of bad drivers back then too, some things never change. My real point was that if 5 minutes after turning DSC off you get yourself into (or close to) an accident on dry roads, perhaps it's time to consider a car with lower limits, and work your way up to an M3 once driving skill improves.
im sure you are a fantastic driver, your 20+ year record of safety is laudable. and your suggestion is duly noted. your opinion is also worth about as much as a bag of hair.

dsc exists to protect drivers of all skills. those that choose to turn it off do so at their risk. at the PCD, turning off dsc even on the tracks there is not only frowned upon, it's grounds for dismissal. even EXCELLENT drivers like you can get in trouble with it off. so get off your high horse andretti
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      07-16-2012, 03:39 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzentruber
Quote:
Originally Posted by McLoven View Post
This. DSC off should be reserved for the track. This car is much too powerful to be fooling around on the street with DSC off. Sorry, just had to say it.
I'm sorry, but anyone that requires DSC to "save their bacon" on the road (in anything but severely traction compromised situations) really shouldn't be driving this car. Some of these recent threads about the trouble people get into simply turning the DSC off make me think there's a decent number of people buying this car that shouldn't. If you can't handle the car in controlled circumstances with DSC off, there's a good chance you can't handle the car with DSC on in a panic/emergency situation.

I'm not mentioning this as a reason to drive around on the street with DSC off; frankly if it's that intrusive, you are probably driving poorly. However, if DSC off gets you in that much trouble, such jumping medians or spinning the car, I'd say it's time to either get a different car more within your driving limits, or get some classes to improve your driving skills stat.
Lol so no one should buy an M3 unless you are a professional driver? A little pretentious huh?
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      07-16-2012, 04:20 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
When Chuck Norris drives with DSC off, the back end doesn't slide out, it's the earth being knocked off of its center of axis.
You guys are hilarious with the Chuck Norris jokes .. haha

To the OP and post #2. Learn how to drive, or don't touch the DSC. The M3 is very controlable car, no reason why a good driver would lose control with DSC off.
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      07-16-2012, 05:02 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
I'm sorry, but anyone that requires DSC to "save their bacon" on the road (in anything but severely traction compromised situations) really shouldn't be driving this car. Some of these recent threads about the trouble people get into simply turning the DSC off make me think there's a decent number of people buying this car that shouldn't. If you can't handle the car in controlled circumstances with DSC off, there's a good chance you can't handle the car with DSC on in a panic/emergency situation.

I'm not mentioning this as a reason to drive around on the street with DSC off; frankly if it's that intrusive, you are probably driving poorly. However, if DSC off gets you in that much trouble, such jumping medians or spinning the car, I'd say it's time to either get a different car more within your driving limits, or get some classes to improve your driving skills stat.

I agree

Quote:
Originally Posted by highyo View Post
this is crap. the reason why accidents are lower these days (and also much less severe) is because of the electronic nannies that protect you in situations beyond your control. the big muscle cars of the 70s crashed all the time. even the good drivers crashed em

you are giving your self FAR too much credit as a good driver
lol wut??

Quote:
Originally Posted by highyo View Post
this. the point is, its not really too hard to act like an idiot in this car. with or with out dsc/mdm

maybe there's your problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superfly_M3 View Post
You guys are hilarious with the Chuck Norris jokes .. haha

To the OP and post #2. Learn how to drive, or don't touch the DSC. The M3 is very controlable car, no reason why a good driver would lose control with DSC off.
Again I agree.

Wayyy too many posts about crashing and spinning out. These cars are not that powerful.. And they are making power at high RPM so yes that means half of the wrecks are people driving like idiots. While TC/and other things (abs etc) are nice, a good driver doesn't need them. My girlfriends Pontiac * GT is much worse due to all the torque it has down low and she drives it every day. How many people need nanny electronics for driving?? How many more posts are we gonna read about "DSC off, Crashed car... Is it totaled?" Maybe driving lessons are in order??
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      07-16-2012, 06:55 PM   #39
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I hate to break it to some users
But If you need DSC to avoid crashing
You are not a good driver, period

What did people do in the 90s before stability control was standard?
They did not crash all the time and kill countless little children
Some did, but I guarantee you, the ones that crashed are the same class of driver who buys an M3 to show off with, even though his driving skills aren't at it's level.

People here act like turning off DSC is the same as playing Russian roulette
It's not, if you know what you are doing
And if you don't, then you really shouldn't be driving this car.
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      07-16-2012, 07:04 PM   #40
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So commuting home today, I decided to try it for the first time with DSC off. Seriously, why didn't anyone warn me that was the "wheels fall off" button. You don't know how embarrassing it is sitting in the intersection, cars swerving around you, wheels rolling off down the road. I will NOT be doing that again.
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      07-16-2012, 07:11 PM   #41
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Apparently the requirement for "knowing what you are doing" consists of going on an internet forum and posting that you know what you are doing.

The Skip Barber High Performance Driving School does not allow the nannies to be turned off. I spoke to the chief instructor who told me that if they did their cars would all be destroyed by drivers who "know what they are doing".

But I agree if DSC is that intrusive you are doing something wrong. If you want to experiment with DSC off do it in a controlled environmen, a empty parking lot or preferably a good driving school with a good instructor .
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      07-16-2012, 07:12 PM   #42
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^^ super lolz (swartzenruber)
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      07-16-2012, 07:15 PM   #43
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      07-16-2012, 07:43 PM   #44
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