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      07-11-2007, 05:17 PM   #1
swiss_cornholio
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M-DCT -- again

Talked to my dealer today. He said if I place the order now, I can get my M3 as soon as production starts However, he thinks that M-DCT will not be available next March (rather next September).

So that puts me in a difficult position: Should I really wait for the M-DCT (that I actually want) or jump on the manual that I can have as soon as January? My original timeframe was March or (if confirmed) April 08, but I definitely don't want to wait any longer. On the other hand, I would be pissed, if the M-DCT came out just 2 or 3 months after I got my manual one.

What do you guys think? (Especially people from Europe; by the time it is delivered in the US M-DCT will probably be available anyway).

Any people who actually prefer manual over dual clutch?
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      07-11-2007, 05:33 PM   #2
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Does he have a price on the M_DCT?
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      07-11-2007, 05:38 PM   #3
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Get the faster one now - no brainer.

/runs and hides from the flappy panel gearbox contingent.

Seriously though, I would wait for the one you really want.
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      07-11-2007, 05:43 PM   #4
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I think the dealer wants you to order now. Telling you the DCT may not be available until some unknown time in the future is likely to influence you to go ahead and order rather than waiting.

I believe the latest info from the early press reports is that the M-DCT will be available in March, 2008.
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      07-11-2007, 06:32 PM   #5
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Wait for the M-DCT, ESPECIALLY if it's the transmission you really want. No sense in getting a car you're almost satisfied with when you can wait a few more months and be totally happy with it.
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      07-11-2007, 06:36 PM   #6
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+1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
I think the dealer wants you to order now. Telling you the DCT may not be available until some unknown time in the future is likely to influence you to go ahead and order rather than waiting.
That was my first thought exactly.
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      07-11-2007, 09:00 PM   #7
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Im going to wait for the M-DCT, but yea, i do think he just wants to "lock" you into ordering the car.

Didnt someone say that its confirmed DCT will be available by March?
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      07-11-2007, 09:09 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiss_cornholio View Post
Talked to my dealer today. He said if I place the order now, I can get my M3 as soon as production starts However, he thinks that M-DCT will not be available next March (rather next September).

So that puts me in a difficult position: Should I really wait for the M-DCT (that I actually want) or jump on the manual that I can have as soon as January? My original timeframe was March or (if confirmed) April 08, but I definitely don't want to wait any longer. On the other hand, I would be pissed, if the M-DCT came out just 2 or 3 months after I got my manual one.

What do you guys think? (Especially people from Europe; by the time it is delivered in the US M-DCT will probably be available anyway).

Any people who actually prefer manual over dual clutch?
To respond to your last question first, I have always had manuals (except for my SUVs), but I will wait to try the DCT this time. The manual in my current E46 is a little arthritic, even with an ACS SSK, and I'd like to give the automated manual a try.

A couple months wait is not a biggie in the overall scheme of things if it is what you think you want. The only positive for us Americans is that, though we have to wait a few more months, we may get the choice of either from Day 1. I think that is part of BMW's strategy, because they know many here will demand some sort of automated transmission.
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      07-11-2007, 09:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post

A couple months wait is not a biggie in the overall scheme of things if it is what you think you want. The only positive for us Americans is that, though we have to wait a few more months, we may get the choice of either from Day 1. I think that is part of BMW's strategy, because they know many here will demand some sort of automated transmission.
I agree, i think they will try to introduce it at launch, especially with the M3's competition BMW would want to try to capture everybody's driving style and needs.
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      07-11-2007, 09:32 PM   #10
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Yep, stick only keeps potential buyers away. Although, I have SMG now, and my wife doesn't get the point ... "Why should I have to use the paddles? What good does that do -- it shifts for you!"
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      07-11-2007, 09:47 PM   #11
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Yep, stick only keeps potential buyers away. Although, I have SMG now, and my wife doesn't get the point ... "Why should I have to use the paddles? What good does that do -- it shifts for you!"
Haha i feel ya, my fiancee is all for the DCT, shes stated that when we order the M3 we MUST get it in automatic. I tried to explain to her that its not really a automatic and you can shift with the paddles or shifter, shes like "whatever...as long as theres no 3rd brake thingy."
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      07-11-2007, 10:04 PM   #12
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does anyone know for certain if DCT is faster than stick?
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      07-11-2007, 10:09 PM   #13
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does anyone know for certain if DCT is faster than stick?
yea it is, the engineers say that it shifts faster than any human can. DCT is speculated to also shave a few .x seconds off the 0-62 time.
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      07-11-2007, 10:10 PM   #14
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DCT vs. manual

Quote:
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does anyone know for certain if DCT is faster than stick?
Obviously no, until they are tested side-by-side under the same conditions. Everything we know says it should be, if it launches okay. SMG is often slower 0-60, at least the US non-launch mode version. In the end, the differences will marginal and it will come down to other factors.
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      07-11-2007, 10:27 PM   #15
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Hmm... what do you guys think the M-DCT hardware will weigh compared to a conventional manual with clutch? Uhoh another debate!
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      07-11-2007, 10:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW / Oregon View Post
Obviously no, until they are tested side-by-side under the same conditions. Everything we know says it should be, if it launches okay. SMG is often slower 0-60, at least the US non-launch mode version. In the end, the differences will marginal and it will come down to other factors.
Really...hmm i def. read that the DCT is much faster at shifting than regular MT. O well it is pretty much a auto anyway.
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      07-11-2007, 10:47 PM   #17
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Really...hmm i def. read that the DCT is much faster at shifting than regular MT. O well it is pretty much a auto anyway.
I can assure you that you have not read how much faster BMW/Getrag's implementation of DCT is than regular MT.
And no, it's not pretty much an auto.
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      07-11-2007, 11:01 PM   #18
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I can assure you that you have not read how much faster BMW/Getrag's implementation of DCT is than regular MT.
And no, it's not pretty much an auto.
Sorry i apologize for my ignorance, maybe it was someone posting their thoughts on it before that i read and took for truth.

I guess we will see in the upcoming months how much slower/faster etc the DCT will be.
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      07-12-2007, 03:11 AM   #19
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We can estimate it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
Hmm... what do you guys think the M-DCT hardware will weigh compared to a conventional manual with clutch? Uhoh another debate!
~40 lbs

The tranny we'll probably see as the M-DCT is from Getrag and weighs 78kg (link). Their comparable SMG unit weighs 71 kg so that difference is a mere 15lbs. Probably not the best comparo though as the benchmark is the 6MT (the same one in the 335i, I am fairly sure) which is the ZF type G. No matter where I look I haven't been able to find the weight of this unit (been looking a while as well...). The closest match Getrag unit to the ZF type G weighs in at 53kg, if the ZF type G is similar in weight (likely) the DCT penalty is then about 40 lb.

Industry sources have stated the car will be faster with the DCT. The only way it will be faster if it it has a good launch capability. As we know 6MT in the E46 M3 was usually faster in 0-X sprints than SMG because of generally getting a better launch when executed perfectly by a skilled driver. SMG then offered only marginally better shift times.

Epacy: take it easy on Fifthstreetz. We all know the Getrag unit will be quite similar to the VW box and inheirent in any DCT design is nearly instantaneous shifts. VW times have been quotes at 8 ms. Since we expect the M-DCT to be better than the VW (Borg-Warner) unit we are in for very fast shifts. Well I guess calling the DCT "pretty much an auto" did deserve some -ing...
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      07-12-2007, 03:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
I think the dealer wants you to order now. Telling you the DCT may not be available until some unknown time in the future is likely to influence you to go ahead and order rather than waiting.

I believe the latest info from the early press reports is that the M-DCT will be available in March, 2008.
Actually my dealer offered me to enter the order with manual (just to reserve the slot) and then change to M-DCT as soon as it is available for ordering.

For me the latest date for delivery really is April 08. I have always had manual so far so I wouldn't be totally unhappy with manual. I think I will place the order with the option of switching to M-DCT if available by the end of the year. Otherwise I will release it for production.

By the way: 3 weeks ago I did a lap with the "Ring-Taxi" (current M5) on the Nordschleife. I asked the driver about the M3 and the M-DCT. He told me that they were testing it right now on the Ring but he didn't know anything about when M-DTC will be going into prodoction.
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      07-12-2007, 05:11 AM   #21
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while it is probably still a little early to speculate, has anyone heard if the launch control that is offered in Europe (and I assuming that LC will be offered as part of the M-DCT) will be crippled when it comes to the US. I read that a lot of e60 M5 Owners were not impressed that BMWUSA had restricted the LC on thier cars with SMG.
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      07-12-2007, 09:31 AM   #22
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According to BMW Munich the M-DCT will be available for ordering in June 2008, production +3 months. The date is not 100% confirmed, it might also be later.
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