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      07-11-2007, 01:04 PM   #1
SMSgt B
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First post --- to get CF roof or not

Hey all,

I have been lurking for a while now but I just put in my M3 order last week through the military car sales here in Germany. Right now, it is just a blank order since the final price and options haven't been officially released yet. One of the options that I do know of is giving me some trouble deciding which way to go ... the roof. I am really torn about either getting the steel roof with a sunroof or the CF roof with no sunroof. Hopefully you experts can help out on my questions:

1. Is the weight savings with the CF roof really that significant to the handling of the car? The only comparison I can find is that the M6 CF roof saved 11lbs from the total weight, so I think the weight savings would be close to the same.

2. I don't plan on selling my M3, but you just never know what can happen in life. I wonder which roof would have a higher resale value / desire in the US market if I had to sell it.

What are most of you soon-to-be owners going with?

BTW...really enjoy reading and learning from all of you

V/r

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      07-11-2007, 01:14 PM   #2
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Welcome to the board,

1. Im not a engineer but i would say it would not make a world of difference, unless your a track freak and every little detail terms of performance/weight saving matters to you. BMW engineers say that the lightweight roof lowers the center of gravity and will increase agility and directional stability along with reducing understeer.

2. IMO i think the CF roof would have a higher re-sell value, i never use the sunroof in my car now anyway nor do i know anyone that uses it on a regular basis.

I will be going with the CF
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      07-11-2007, 01:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMSgt B View Post
Hey all,

I have been lurking for a while now but I just put in my M3 order last week through the military car sales here in Germany. Right now, it is just a blank order since the final price and options haven't been officially released yet. One of the options that I do know of is giving me some trouble deciding which way to go ... the roof. I am really torn about either getting the steel roof with a sunroof or the CF roof with no sunroof. Hopefully you experts can help out on my questions:

1. Is the weight savings with the CF roof really that significant to the handling of the car? The only comparison I can find is that the M6 CF roof saved 11lbs from the total weight, so I think the weight savings would be close to the same.

2. I don't plan on selling my M3, but you just never know what can happen in life. I wonder which roof would have a higher resale value / desire in the US market if I had to sell it.

What are most of you soon-to-be owners going with?

BTW...really enjoy reading and learning from all of you

V/r

SMSgt B
Welcome...

I'm not an expert, but for what it's worth, I have ordered the CFRP roof. I don't believe it will (for me at least) make any perceivable difference to performance, but I do think the feature will preserve resale value.

It is a shame they are not painting the roof, because I think it looks gimmicky (once the material is commonplace, no-one will be doing this - same as with cycle frames) and it does not seem to look good with my chosen colour (Jerez black). For this reason I plan to pursue the opportunity to have the roof painted as an Individual option.
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      07-11-2007, 01:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
Welcome...

it does not seem to look good with my chosen colour (Jerez black). For this reason I plan to pursue the opportunity to have the roof painted as an Individual option.
I also plan to get Jerez black, what makes it not look good? Besides having no contrast...
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      07-11-2007, 01:43 PM   #5
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You can't just compare CF vs. steel when thinking of the tops. You must think in terms of CF vs. steel and moonroof, which is significant IMO.

CF.

/end thread. J/k!
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      07-11-2007, 01:45 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by FifthStreetz View Post
I also plan to get Jerez black, what makes it not look good? Besides having no contrast...
It's not the lack of contrast so much as that I just don't think black and blue go well together (and the Jerez black definitely looks blue). Didn't the E46 cabrios come with a blue top if you ordered blue paint?
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      07-11-2007, 01:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13eastie View Post
Welcome...

I'm not an expert, but for what it's worth, I have ordered the CFRP roof. I don't believe it will (for me at least) make any perceivable difference to performance, but I do think the feature will preserve resale value.

It is a shame they are not painting the roof, because I think it looks gimmicky (once the material is commonplace, no-one will be doing this - same as with cycle frames) and it does not seem to look good with my chosen colour (Jerez black). For this reason I plan to pursue the opportunity to have the roof painted as an Individual option.
Wouldn't painting the roof over partly defeat the purpose of having it for resale value?
If you plan on painting it over and don't care about the supposed performance gain then I would def jus go for the moonroof
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      07-11-2007, 01:49 PM   #8
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Welcome to the board SMSgt B

Im going CF as it sorta looks like they designed it with that in mind.
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      07-11-2007, 02:01 PM   #9
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The CF roof does not offers the same protection against bear attacks as a steel roof.

I am going with the CF roof because I don't use moon roof. It's nice to have the sun in california but whenever I open it I find it noisy.
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      07-11-2007, 03:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
The CF roof does not offers the same protection against bear attacks as a steel roof.
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      07-11-2007, 03:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nechronics View Post
Wouldn't painting the roof over partly defeat the purpose of having it for resale value?
If you plan on painting it over and don't care about the supposed performance gain then I would def jus go for the moonroof
Well I guess the short answer is yes.

But despite my natural cynicism, what residual faith I have in human kind tells me that some people like the CF roof for its supposed technical benefits rather than its appearance.

This actually ought not to be too difficult because the naked CFRP looks frankly ridiculous and (along with iDrive / Satnav) will (IMO) be the feature that causes the car to age soonest.

I guess I'm hoping that people are simply happy to be told it is there, even if they cannot see it, the same as with many other features...
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      07-11-2007, 03:49 PM   #12
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The CF roof is a signature feature of the new M3 and it looks nice, but I'm pretty sure I'm going with the steel roof + sunroof. I'm sure there will be decent resale for both cars. As they say in the car biz, "there's an a$$ for every seat"
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      07-11-2007, 03:50 PM   #13
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Question

As a slight aside, to any UK folk who have spec'ed your cars, do you remember whether the sun-roof was even an option (because I don't)?
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      07-11-2007, 04:06 PM   #14
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1. I would never buy a car without a sunroof as I use mine everyday (and I live in the north ha ha...). This was the sole reason I didnt buy a 350z pre-launch a few years back. And yes, I do track my car regularly

2. I havent made up my mind about resale... but you can look at the M6 for reference. IMO a car with a sunroof will be more popular than a car without a sunroof since most buyers are looking for the ///M badge and use these as DD. Think about the previous M cars, how many non-sunroof M3 do you see around? If this was a dedicated track car like an Elise or something, that's a different story.

Obviously the CFR is a cool marketing idea and a nice conversation piece, but not sure how much real benefit there is otherwise for this type of application. It is cool to see BMW thinking outside the box though...
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      07-11-2007, 04:10 PM   #15
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do you still have to wax/zaino/klasse a CF roof?
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      07-11-2007, 06:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
do you still have to wax/zaino/klasse a CF roof?

I think the answer is definitely YES.

I have a CF wing on my Evo, and there have been problems with the clearcoat "delaminating" on a number of cars. Me, I let some bird poop sit on the wing too long. Months later, there's a hole in the CF coating. I suppose I can get it covered under warranty (others have) but I haven't asked yet.... It's one thing that scares me off from having an entire roof in CF. Yes I know the M3 is not a Mitsubishi. But we are talking similar coating technolgies here, I would think........
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      07-11-2007, 06:48 PM   #17
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My 2 cents

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
You can't just compare CF vs. steel when thinking of the tops. You must think in terms of CF vs. steel and moonroof, which is significant IMO.
Yes about 10-15 lbs just for the CF panel vs. a blank steel panel (which is nice to know, but irrelevant as you can't get the steel roof with no sunroof). Adding the weight savings together counting the sunroof itself and mechanism will be closer to 60-65 lbs total difference. Like the multiplicative effect of lighter wheels (mass and rotational inertia) removing weight from the highest point of the car is the best move toward lowering its roll moment of intertia and improving vehicle handling and dynamics. All that is nice and we can applaud BMW for saving weight, but I have also posed a long standing bet here with folks that "blindfolded" no one could feel the difference nor likely measure any performance difference.

Also...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbo View Post
The CF roof does not offers the same protection against bear attacks as a steel roof.
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      07-11-2007, 09:49 PM   #18
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I'm sure Vorsteiner will eventually offer a CF roof for those with the sunroof.
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      07-11-2007, 10:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Yes about 10-15 lbs just for the CF panel vs. a blank steel panel (which is nice to know, but irrelevant as you can't get the steel roof with no sunroof). Adding the weight savings together counting the sunroof itself and mechanism will be closer to 60-65 lbs total difference.
evosport measured a total 46 lb difference on the E46 M3 between the steel roof with sunroof and Vorsteiner CF roof with no sun. 11 lb. is the difference for the CF roof vs. steel on the E92.
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      07-11-2007, 10:19 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
I'm sure Vorsteiner will eventually offer a CF roof for those with the sunroof.
Seems absurd. Only reasonable excuse would be for 2nd owners.
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      07-11-2007, 10:24 PM   #21
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CF/suroof

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
I'm sure Vorsteiner will eventually offer a CF roof for those with the sunroof.
There's no structural reason you can't put a sunroof in a CF roof; BMW wisely decided to offer two discreet options. I'm torn, becuase I love sunroofs, but the CFRP roof is very cool.
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      07-11-2007, 10:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Seems absurd. Only reasonable excuse would be for 2nd owners.
??

Or for those that want the cool look of CF and a sunroof? The best of both worlds. No, there wouldn't be any performance advantage of course.
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