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      07-12-2012, 01:07 PM   #23
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When I test drove the M3 (used, MT), the salesman went over the various settings with me so we could set the M button, set up the nav to where the good back roads were, got out of the car, and said "have fun". Boy, did I ever! I picked mine up at the Welt and spent 3 glorious weeks in Europe. It's currently on a ship heading this way... I also was coming off a 335i with a tune. No comparison.
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      07-12-2012, 02:00 PM   #24
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Again thx guys for you're insight Clearly I need another run..also just to clarify, I am keeping my 335XI - that is for the wife..the M3 (if I get it..) will be a DD for me and occasional track use..
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      07-12-2012, 02:20 PM   #25
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Wait so OP thinks the 335 steers better than the m3?.. I call

M3 steering, suspension, throttle response all > 335.......and yes I have owned both cars.
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      07-12-2012, 02:45 PM   #26
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To some degree yes but then again it's probably my lack of time in the car and knowing how to set the config to get the best...Hence I am here asking b/c you guys have much more experience with these cars..clearly I am wrong but I was not the first to think this initially..
To some degree yes but then again it's probably my lack of time in the car and knowing how to set the config to get the best...Hence I am here asking b/c you guys have much more experience with these cars..clearly I am wrong but I was not the first to think this initially..
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      07-12-2012, 02:55 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremePower3335 View Post
To some degree yes but then again it's probably my lack of time in the car and knowing how to set the config to get the best...Hence I am here asking b/c you guys have much more experience with these cars..clearly I am wrong but I was not the first to think this initially..
Get more seat time in an M3..especially at high speeds..hit the M button and all will be revealed..I liked the 335.. a great car to tune and definitly fast but the M3 just showed me all that was lacking in the 335..GL with your choice
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      07-12-2012, 04:25 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by SupremePower3335 View Post
Hi Guys,
I have a 335XI Sedan. That is our family car and more for the wife so I am looking for something for myself. I am cross-shopping 997.2 and the Competition M3.

Well I finally drove it on Sat. While the sound was "intoxicating" and look was amazing it wasnt a car that I was like WOW I need to have this..In a way the steering wheel felt loose not tight like my 335 but that could have been b/c we kept it at the lightest settings. B/C we drove it on the local highway we just not get it up to speed..Anyway it was nice and everything but when I looked at the price - it was almost exactly what the 911S was..now if I looked at the M3 MY 2008/2009, the 2006 997.1 are similarly priced so that's where I am kind of stuck..If I want to buy the newer 997.2 I am going to have to wait a while while I can get a MY '08/'09 and save myself $30K or get and older 911 and risk major repairs (eg IMS)...I have to say when a drove the 911S, it was amazing..the handling, the interior etc..One thing that really bugs me is that a 3 Series and M3 interior is almost the same (minus the Headrest)..I love the 911's interior..anyway back to the drive..

Anyway I know this is a M3 forum so I may get bashed but I am interested in your comments/opinions - FLAME SUIT ON
Before I bought my M3 last year, I test drove the following cars:

Cayman S
997 S
997 4S
Panamera
550i
e60 M5
GTR
Also owned an RS4

I chose the M3 above them all. M3 has a complete Jekyll and Hyde personality. Driven calmly with everything on the softest settings, it is a tame and docile daily transport tool. To know its performance capabilities, you have to drive it hard. When you do, you will be simply astonished at what it does, and the composure it maintains while doing so. If the M3 were a person, it would be James Bond.
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      07-12-2012, 04:32 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Before I bought my M3 last year, I test drove the following cars:

Cayman S
997 S
997 4S
Panamera
550i
e60 M5
GTR
Also owned an RS4

I chose the M3 above them all. M3 has a complete Jekyll and Hyde personality. Driven calmly with everything on the softest settings, it is a tame and docile daily transport tool. To know its performance capabilities, you have to drive it hard. When you do, you will be simply astonished at what it does, and the composure it maintains while doing so. If the M3 were a person, it would be James Bond.
That is the best description I have ever heard for the M3!
Can't wait to get mine!
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      07-12-2012, 04:58 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremePower3335 View Post
Hi Guys,
I have a 335XI Sedan. That is our family car and more for the wife so I am looking for something for myself. I am cross-shopping 997.2 and the Competition M3.

Well I finally drove it on Sat. While the sound was "intoxicating" and look was amazing it wasnt a car that I was like WOW I need to have this..In a way the steering wheel felt loose not tight like my 335 but that could have been b/c we kept it at the lightest settings. B/C we drove it on the local highway we just not get it up to speed..Anyway it was nice and everything but when I looked at the price - it was almost exactly what the 911S was..now if I looked at the M3 MY 2008/2009, the 2006 997.1 are similarly priced so that's where I am kind of stuck..If I want to buy the newer 997.2 I am going to have to wait a while while I can get a MY '08/'09 and save myself $30K or get and older 911 and risk major repairs (eg IMS)...I have to say when a drove the 911S, it was amazing..the handling, the interior etc..One thing that really bugs me is that a 3 Series and M3 interior is almost the same (minus the Headrest)..I love the 911's interior..anyway back to the drive..

Anyway I know this is a M3 forum so I may get bashed but I am interested in your comments/opinions - FLAME SUIT ON
Before I bought my M3 last year, I test drove the following cars:

Cayman S
997 S
997 4S
Panamera
550i
e60 M5
GTR
Also owned an RS4

I chose the M3 above them all. M3 has a complete Jekyll and Hyde personality. Driven calmly with everything on the softest settings, it is a tame and docile daily transport tool. To know its performance capabilities, you have to drive it hard. When you do, you will be simply astonished at what it does, and the composure it maintains while doing so. If the M3 were a person, it would be James Bond.
Well said!
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      07-12-2012, 07:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Before I bought my M3 last year, I test drove the following cars:

Cayman S
997 S
997 4S
Panamera
550i
e60 M5
GTR
Also owned an RS4

I chose the M3 above them all. M3 has a complete Jekyll and Hyde personality. Driven calmly with everything on the softest settings, it is a tame and docile daily transport tool. To know its performance capabilities, you have to drive it hard. When you do, you will be simply astonished at what it does, and the composure it maintains while doing so. If the M3 were a person, it would be James Bond.
Just curious, why didn't you test drive any of the AMGs?
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      07-13-2012, 07:13 AM   #32
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It seems to me the best answer is to do your test drives and select the car that you like the best. I don't need rear seats and I test drove a m3 coupe and my Cayman S and you can see what vehicle I purchased. Again, I truly believe that it is fine to get opinions but at the end of the day it is your decision.

I just wish the new 911's weren't 125,000!

Former car 2007 335i JB3

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      07-13-2012, 07:23 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David 12 View Post
I just wish the new 911's weren't 125,000!
Former car 2007 335i JB3
Dave
thx Dave..this is exactly what prompted my thread..I have no doubt the M3 is a superb vehicle..if I can save major $$$ and get near to similar performance from a M3 the M3 would be my obvious choice..
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      07-13-2012, 09:40 AM   #34
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I test drove the M3 only once, and my 335i was history the very next moment.
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      07-13-2012, 09:19 PM   #35
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997.2 isnt worth it imo. they made it so much better in the 991 that to get a 997.2 vs an m3 would be retarded. id rank it 997.2 < m3 < 991
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      07-14-2012, 07:24 AM   #36
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Mrs siim, all I can say is wow!!
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      07-14-2012, 07:47 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3 View Post
997.2 isnt worth it imo. they made it so much better in the 991 that to get a 997.2 vs an m3 would be retarded. id rank it 997.2 < m3 < 991
Nice try... I'll take my 997.2 C4S, thank you very much! My wife has the obligatory SUV for the kids, so why deprive one's self of a sports car?
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      07-14-2012, 08:53 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3 View Post
997.2 isnt worth it imo. they made it so much better in the 991 that to get a 997.2 vs an m3 would be retarded. id rank it 997.2 < m3 < 991
Keep believing that........
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      07-14-2012, 11:59 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alms211
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSSIIM3 View Post
997.2 isnt worth it imo. they made it so much better in the 991 that to get a 997.2 vs an m3 would be retarded. id rank it 997.2 &lt; m3 &lt; 991
Keep believing that........
I will... from my short lived experiences, the 997.2 only is clearly better in its GT3/2 trim other than that think they're fairly equal (drivers race) and I'll take the added luxury and four doors. Thank you very much :
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      07-14-2012, 05:56 PM   #40
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I will... from my short lived experiences, the 997.2 only is clearly better in its GT3/2 trim other than that think they're fairly equal (drivers race) and I'll take the added luxury and four doors. Thank you very much :
It truly must be short lived In the right hands, any 997.x will dance around an M3. Problem is, most don't know how to drive a 911 properly, freak out and lift, etc. M3 is easy to drive fast, but 911 = the better car all around (unless you need rear seats, which is why I had mine for 3 years).
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      07-14-2012, 06:03 PM   #41
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Also r.e. all this talk about the "Jekyll and Hyde personality", sounds like salesman-talk. Once I dialed in the correct steering, EDC, and throttle map settings, I never changed them. 2/3 of the settings for EDC and throttle map are bogus, and the sport steering weight is fake gain off-center. So there really is one set of correct settings if you want active dampening, a linear throttle map, and good steering. The only thing I used the M button was to switch to DSC off or to MDM for stability/traction control. I remember when the salesman took went with me on my first test drive - he said "Hit the M button and you'll see". I was like wtf? See what? That BMW has too many settings in there? Really...

Anyway, I no longer have my M3 (you can see my post history and posts if you want here though, since I have not posted in a long, long time), but enjoyed it for what it was - a practical and fast sedan. It's a great car, but let's not kid ourselves with salesman or bad auto journalist talk...
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      07-14-2012, 06:38 PM   #42
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I really don't get the jeckyll and hyde thing either. Same with the e60 m5. I mean I did not know a SINGLE person ever drive it in p400 mode and the gas mileage was not even any different than p500 mode since all it did was restrcit how far the throttle bodies would open which is done by not stepping on the gas as heavily!

For the m3 lets look at the options-

Steering heaviness-Sport or normal-Why would you not choose a heavier setting all the time on a sports car?

EDC ( I did not want this option so don't have it) but from everyone I talk to the "normal" mode is 99 percent of the time the best option since it is adaptive and comfortable enough. Again why would you need that cush a ride when the normal setting is already cush enough.

Sport-Makes the throttle more sensitive-pick the setting you like and leave it there. Absolutely no point in changing between these settings as it simply screws you up and you should get used to pedal feel of one setting for maximum control and modulatibility of throttle.

With that said, all of those are programmed on my M button so I get in the car, start car, press M button and off. No clue why one would drive the car without all the settings that are the best sometimes.
Exactly. The throttle maps are particularly strange - there are some graphs somewhere. Sport+ is quite silly, with most of your input in the first percentage or so. What you should want/aim for is as linear a map as possible. This way you have more control in your throttle input. As to why people would switch throttle maps, no clue. It's marketing - look now on Sport+ w/o changing the throttle input, we have a "power boost"! That's exactly what salesmen do.

My M settings were the same as my key settings. The only thing I could not do with the key was MDM/DSC OFF. So I had that in the M button. So I only had to press the M button when I wanted MDM or DSC OFF (typically winter).

Yes, the engine is the best part of the car. Problem is the gearing (and power) makes it hard to not get a ticket on the street for "disturbing the peace" The 335 is better geared for street driving IMHO, and probably a better street car with the torque coming on lower RPMs, etc. The most fun I had with my M3 was in the winter. I did take it on track, and it was fun, but the single pot brakes are the weakest part about the car. I mean even the 135i has larger calipers..
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      07-14-2012, 08:19 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbo73
Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
I will... from my short lived experiences, the 997.2 only is clearly better in its GT3/2 trim other than that think they're fairly equal (drivers race) and I'll take the added luxury and four doors. Thank you very much :
It truly must be short lived In the right hands, any 997.x will dance around an M3. Problem is, most don't know how to drive a 911 properly, freak out and lift, etc. M3 is easy to drive fast, but 911 = the better car all around (unless you need rear seats, which is why I had mine for 3 years).
Must just be bad drivers here in the Midwest. Everyone says there such better cars on track, but just don't see it in the more base forms. Closing in on 50 track days in 2.5 years and am not impressed by Porsches at all from what I've seen outside of the aforementioned GT class. I'll keep my four door family sedan.
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      07-14-2012, 10:52 PM   #44
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Must just be bad drivers here in the Midwest. Everyone says there such better cars on track, but just don't see it in the more base forms. Closing in on 50 track days in 2.5 years and am not impressed by Porsches at all from what I've seen outside of the aforementioned GT class. I'll keep my four door family sedan.
Right around 15 years ago, when I decided to get involved in amateur SCCA open wheel racing, I went to the Skip Barber race school so I could eventually get my SCCA license. In the class there were some guys who had no business being there, some guys who were good, and some who you couldn't tell yet in which category they would fall. One such guy, I'll call him Chris, after the first day (where he did well) started to have mental blocks. No matter how much the instructors told him to trust the car/grip and how late to brake, he could not overcome his own mental wall. He continued to brake at the 2 mark instead of the 1 down the main straight, take a fast right uphill corner at a slower than needed (to progress) min apex speed, etc. We did it, he saw us, yet still he simply could not get over the mental wall he had. He didn't finish on the last day and almost had a real nasty crash trying to overcome his mental block. Any racing ambitions he had ended that day. I saw this more and more as I got into racing.

Now I bring this up here for two reasons. The first is that there is no car that feels more like the formula cars I drove than the 911 platform. I think any open wheel race car driver can relate. The weight behind you, the light front, all the dynamics and handling characteristics are very similar. In the right hands, it will be the best car on track. This is what I said before, in less words. And there is definitely a large mental wall one must overcome to drive a 911 properly - don't lift!!!

And this brings me to my second point as it relates to your post and my experience. Very few people can drive a 911 fast and properly. There is that mental wall one has to overcome to be fast. Many simply cannot, so they drive the cars slower than possible - GT versions or non-S. The dynamics of the 911 feel less familiar, so the 911 suffers more than any car IMHO from not being driven to its full potential. It's just harder for most to. So I'm not at all surprised at your experience with what you've seen at the track, etc. I see it too. I've seen journalists who can't drive them for crap, and so go on to praise cars that are easier for them to get faster laps in. Hardly something accurate.

Now I'm not saying cars should be hard to drive - not at all. No driver wants to fight with a car to get the best out of it. The less input, the better. A good driver CAN manhandle just about any car and get a good lap time out of it. 10 laps? Probably not, as understeer and other bad characteristics start to slow lap times down. And BTW, another reason one should never read too much into those "one hot lap shoot outs" that car mags love to do. I want 10-15 lap shoot outs!

So sorry to go off on such a long-winded tangent, but I think it's important to have said it. The M3 is a great car. Most people will be faster in it than in a 911. Journalists and paid publicity racers too - I know a few. So don't be surprised at that! That's not a bad thing, nor here nor there, but I can tell you first hand that I am much quicker in a 911 than I ever was in my E90 M3 or any other street car I've tracked. So are the the the friends I've raced with. It really is a special car, and I have driven plenty. The M3 is special too, but BMW unfortunately is going in the wrong direction with the next one, etc., but now I really digress.

Last edited by urbo73; 07-14-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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