BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
E92-lighting
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-11-2007, 09:23 AM   #1
ILC32
Lieutenant
 
ILC32's Avatar
 
Drives: 1993 Porsche RSA
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere

Posts: 580
iTrader: (0)

Is the new M3 not "edgy" enough? Is it too "soft"?

I see these comments in the magazine reviews about whether or not the new M3 is as "edgy" as, or "softer" than the E46, and I really wonder what the heck these reviewers are talking about.

The E46 M3 feels edgy mainly because of the quick response of the S54, particularly in sport mode. That is what makes the overall experience of the car so fantastic. The car seems to surge with power, sometimes surprising to me still even after having owned the car for four years, particularly in lower gears and in the higher reaches of the tach.

I would not say the suspension on the E46 is edgy -- it is actually quite controllable and fairly forgiving. The suspension (at least with the 19s) is fairly harsh over less than perfect roads, but that to me is not edginess, it is harshness.

The brakes on the E46 M3 are not edgy either. They have good stopping power, and the car is very well controlled under very hard braking from high speed. There is no lightness in the rear, or wandering under extreme braking.

So I am left thinking that the only thing "edgy" or "hard core" about the E46 M3 is the motor, and particularly its power delivery.

Everything I have read so far about the new M3 suggests the motor is fantastic. If it retains the feel of the S54 -- a barely restrained wild animal -- to me the car is "edgy." I would welcome less harshness in the ride, as long as the fantastic handling and body control is on par with the E46.

So all of this is a longwinded way I guess of saying that unless the motor is a let down, I think the new car will be at least as "edgy" as the E46. And if "soft" means not as harsh over less than perfect roads, count me in as long as overall handling is on par with the E46.
ILC32 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 09:37 AM   #2
Socom
Major General
 
Drives: 2010 335D
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Atl.

Posts: 5,214
iTrader: (0)

IMO "Edgy" is the E46M3 CSL. I think E46M3 owners weren't too happy with how much their car weighs and even less so with the E92M3. It's getting really big and heavy to be called the "Uber Sports Sedan". I suspect many will go to Porsche.
Socom is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 10:12 AM   #3
JEllis
Brigadier General
 
JEllis's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3, E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: SD CA/Yuma

Posts: 4,674
iTrader: (4)

blah blah blah...this is getting really old..

Wait for some real reviews and some real performance numbers.

If sub 8:10 ring times (the E46 M3's was around 8:20) arent good enough for you then please be patient from some concrete info from an actual multi-day review!

Jason
__________________
http://www.m3post.com/forums/signaturepics/sigpic14547_7.gif
JEllis is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 10:26 AM   #4
M3_2010
Private
 
M3_2010's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 CiC
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NYC

Posts: 55
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
I see these comments in the magazine reviews about whether or not the new M3 is as "edgy" as, or "softer" than the E46, and I really wonder what the heck these reviewers are talking about.

The E46 M3 feels edgy mainly because of the quick response of the S54, particularly in sport mode. That is what makes the overall experience of the car so fantastic. The car seems to surge with power, sometimes surprising to me still even after having owned the car for four years, particularly in lower gears and in the higher reaches of the tach.

I would not say the suspension on the E46 is edgy -- it is actually quite controllable and fairly forgiving. The suspension (at least with the 19s) is fairly harsh over less than perfect roads, but that to me is not edginess, it is harshness.

The brakes on the E46 M3 are not edgy either. They have good stopping power, and the car is very well controlled under very hard braking from high speed. There is no lightness in the rear, or wandering under extreme braking.

So I am left thinking that the only thing "edgy" or "hard core" about the E46 M3 is the motor, and particularly its power delivery.

Everything I have read so far about the new M3 suggests the motor is fantastic. If it retains the feel of the S54 -- a barely restrained wild animal -- to me the car is "edgy." I would welcome less harshness in the ride, as long as the fantastic handling and body control is on par with the E46.

So all of this is a longwinded way I guess of saying that unless the motor is a let down, I think the new car will be at least as "edgy" as the E46. And if "soft" means not as harsh over less than perfect roads, count me in as long as overall handling is on par with the E46.

Not to mention that it drives so well in the city as the engine is so forgiving....
M3_2010 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 07:31 PM   #5
swamp2
Lieutenant General
 
swamp2's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: San Diego, CA USA

Posts: 10,200
iTrader: (1)

E46 M3 is "too soft" (from 9-2000)

"...But we get the feeling BMW's M division could have gone one step further. In faster bends, there's a tad too much body roll, and a safe and secure nose-led stance which won't get you into trouble. The steering could also be slightly sharper and do with more feel, while the chassis would benefit from being set up to be even tauter and more agile to combat the inertia of this 1,570 kg machine. These are all 'ifs' and 'buts', though. BMW has sought to build the ultimate all-around super coupe, and to that extent it has succeeded, as the M3 is an eminently usable everyday car despite it's fantastic performance potential. What seems to be needed is some sort of stripped-out 'RS' or 'Club Sport' pack, like Porsche offers, with less toys, less weight and more focus to tighten everything up for serious enthusiasts who may like to take their pride and joy to the odd track day or two. ..."

-- Auto Express, Previews 9/21/00

Thanks to GregW who posted this here. I thought it was so appropriate I had to repost it.
swamp2 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 07:48 PM   #6
SS32
Major
 
SS32's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 M3
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC

Posts: 1,431
iTrader: (0)

Does no one realize that everyone has thought that the next generation M3 since the E30 has been too "soft"? Yet they're all beasts to drive...something doesn't fit there. If you don't want one/think it's too soft, go buy something else and quit whining.
SS32 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 09:14 PM   #7
porscheguy
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 93 RS America
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

I also did not think the E46 M3 was "edgy." Actually, neither was the E36 version, though the handling/steering on that car was sublime. IMO BMW is staying truer to its roots than Porsche is. I don't know if you guys/gals read the Porsche forums, but the Porsche faithful are very upset about the wet-sump Boxster-derived engines winding up in the base 911s and the lack of limited slip. If you want a traditional Porsche, with all the serious hardware, the only model available is the GT3 and it doesn't have the rear seats. BMW talks about raising their game to compete with Porsche, but it is more the case the Porsche is gone "soft" and is wanting to widen its market. In this segment, the real performance 4 seat car is the BMW. That's why I won't buy another "run of the mill" Porsche. The new M3 will be a far superior everyday car than a Carrera S and competitive with it on a road course. Actually, I had a Carrera S and felt that you would really need to be pushing the car to finding a dynamic edge over an M product, plus it was not as visceral as it should have been nor was it very practical (unless your rear passengers are children or miniature adults).
porscheguy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 10:37 PM   #8
tlp
Colonel
 
tlp's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 e92 M3 SG/FR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Posts: 2,017
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 BMW e92 M3  [4.55]
Quote:
Originally Posted by porscheguy View Post
I also did not think the E46 M3 was "edgy." Actually, neither was the E36 version, though the handling/steering on that car was sublime. IMO BMW is staying truer to its roots than Porsche is. I don't know if you guys/gals read the Porsche forums, but the Porsche faithful are very upset about the wet-sump Boxster-derived engines winding up in the base 911s and the lack of limited slip. If you want a traditional Porsche, with all the serious hardware, the only model available is the GT3 and it doesn't have the rear seats. BMW talks about raising their game to compete with Porsche, but it is more the case the Porsche is gone "soft" and is wanting to widen its market. In this segment, the real performance 4 seat car is the BMW. That's why I won't buy another "run of the mill" Porsche. The new M3 will be a far superior everyday car than a Carrera S and competitive with it on a road course. Actually, I had a Carrera S and felt that you would really need to be pushing the car to finding a dynamic edge over an M product, plus it was not as visceral as it should have been nor was it very practical (unless your rear passengers are children or miniature adults).
Say what you will but Porsche is getting something right while perhaps alienating the small population of "old school" purist.

Porsche just hit the 100,000 997 production number. Quicker than any of it's
911 predecessors!
__________________
My Coding Journal
Current - '11 e92 M3 SG/FR ZCP|ZCV|ZP2|2MK|494|415|6NR|752
tlp is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 11:26 PM   #9
porscheguy
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 93 RS America
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

Yeah, Porsche is doing a lot of things right...for their shareholders! Certainly, from a business standpoint you've got to give them a lot of credit. In most cases they are selling a relatively modest product at very high prices. As most folks know, they are doing well because they have adopted Japanese production methods, and because their racing heritage cloaks their products in a "mystique" that other brands don't have; however, they doing their darnedest to water down this image. In time, after their Le Mans victories are distant memories, consumers will identify Porsche with watches and handbags rather than performance and racing. Once the Panamera is released, they will be in heads up competition with MB and BMW, and their heritage of building exceptionally involving race-bred cars will be long gone. They already build trucks. They can do what they want, but there is a reason that air-cooled 911s are increasing in value. I'm holding on to mine. Don't get me wrong; the new Porsches are wonderful cars, but they all suffer from an identity crisis. They are not what they were in relative performance or driver involvement, nor are they very practical.
porscheguy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-11-2007, 11:41 PM   #10
tlp
Colonel
 
tlp's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 e92 M3 SG/FR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Posts: 2,017
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 BMW e92 M3  [4.55]
Ironically, I just got back from the Porsche Parade in San Diego last week. Drove up in a 997S and had a much better time than I expected. Every model was celebrated and appreciated. Tons for RS America's which has turned into a cult car now. I admire every generation of 911 and have driven early 911's, 996TT and GT3 and 997's. The only 911 that gives me pause is the 997 GT3 RS these days.
__________________
My Coding Journal
Current - '11 e92 M3 SG/FR ZCP|ZCV|ZP2|2MK|494|415|6NR|752
tlp is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2007, 12:35 PM   #11
porscheguy
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 93 RS America
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Birmingham, Alabama

Posts: 31
iTrader: (0)

I'm glad you had a good time. For all of the P-cars I've owned, I've never been to a Porsche Parade, and I need to do that sometime. Also, glad to hear from someone who appreciates them. About the newer Porsches, I will say they are the most precise cars I've ever driven -- just scalpel-like, and for all of the "old school" complaining, they are not slow around technical road courses. Certainly, the competition (Corvette, etc.) has raised the bar, but Porsche marches to its own drummer and I suppose you could see that as a positive. I really don't mind the refined cars, as long as they give us somewhat traditional alternatives. The car I want Porsche to make is a Cayman RS -- sub 2800lbs, 300+hp, cloth seats, rear diff, adjustable suspension. I might sell my RSA for a something like that.
porscheguy is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2007, 12:52 PM   #12
aerisolphaln
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: '05 G35 coupe 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Iowa City, IA

Posts: 396
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
"...But we get the feeling BMW's M division could have gone one step further. In faster bends, there's a tad too much body roll, and a safe and secure nose-led stance which won't get you into trouble. The steering could also be slightly sharper and do with more feel, while the chassis would benefit from being set up to be even tauter and more agile to combat the inertia of this 1,570 kg machine. These are all 'ifs' and 'buts', though. BMW has sought to build the ultimate all-around super coupe, and to that extent it has succeeded, as the M3 is an eminently usable everyday car despite it's fantastic performance potential. What seems to be needed is some sort of stripped-out 'RS' or 'Club Sport' pack, like Porsche offers, with less toys, less weight and more focus to tighten everything up for serious enthusiasts who may like to take their pride and joy to the odd track day or two. ..."

-- Auto Express, Previews 9/21/00
Do you notice how no pre-release reviews have made any comments like the one that I put in bold up above?

No one has called the e92 M3 the *ultimate all-around super coupe*.

I am disappointed in what I've heard so far because I WANT the ultimate all-around super coupe and I was hoping that would be this new M3. The initial information tells me that it is most definitely NOT what I was hoping for.
__________________
Now:'05 G35 6MT\Laser Red\Beige\Sport\Premium

06/2008: M3, 335+Dinan, or ...
aerisolphaln is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2007, 01:07 PM   #13
13eastie
Lieutenant
 
13eastie's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: London

Posts: 563
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisolphaln View Post
Do you notice how no pre-release reviews have made any comments like the one that I put in bold up above?

No one has called the e92 M3 the *ultimate all-around super coupe*.

I am disappointed in what I've heard so far because I WANT the ultimate all-around super coupe and I was hoping that would be this new M3. The initial information tells me that it is most definitely NOT what I was hoping for.
I think the point swamp was making was that the initial reviews of the E46 and E92 M3's are rather similar...

...which you should find reassuring.

The new M3 improves on the old one in virtually every area and is therefore a progression from the E46.

I don't know what you were expecting, but I don't think the proof of finding it will be obtained by doing a word search for "*ultimate all-around super coupe*".
13eastie is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      07-12-2007, 01:49 PM   #14
Leg
Captain
 
Drives: E92 M3 V8 Alpine White
Join Date: May 2007
Location: York, England

Posts: 844
iTrader: (0)

All this umming and arrghing is a pain in the ass tbh guys. One minute I'm excited about getting an M3, the next Im completely put off.

In the end the only thing to do is wait till the demos arrive, get a lengthy test drive and decide for yourself. Im certainly not cancelling anything based on journo's comments or posts on here.

if it isnt what I want when I drive it I'll cancel and get something else. What, I dont know.
Leg is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:27 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST