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      07-12-2012, 07:10 PM   #67
ptack
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I think the point here is that the M brand is not as exclusive as it once was. It is a victim of its own success and there's inherently something bad about being a victim. People here see very well how BMW is slapping M badges on all sorts of things. You want to talk about the M3, well maybe you should also talk about the M135i - the new, pseudo M car. Let's not kid ourselves. Sometime ago that car would have simply been a 5-door 135i, but someone at BMW thought "wait, if we stick an M in front we can charge more money", but there can come a point when an elite brand - and isn't the M brand supposed to be the pinnable of BMW? - becomes associated with things that are not elite. As Warren Buffet said, "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and 5 minutes to ruin it. If you think about that you'll do things differently."
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      07-12-2012, 09:31 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diver View Post
I think anyone who thinks the M brand is dead is jumping the gun, or the couch or whatever.

We can put the back seat down and I am sure that gives a lot more than luggage space than a Cayman. I think part of the appeal of the 135i is it provides sports car levels of performance in a package that does not look like a sports car. Some people do not want to be seen in a sports car for whatever reason. Besides, a Cayman costs a chunk more than a 135i.
The Cayman and the 135i aren't relevant to the discussion of the M brand and even less relevant to each other. I only mentioned the trunk space as a joke.
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      07-13-2012, 06:45 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I think in the 80's and 90's things were simpler at BMW... Gone are the days when BMW made it's wei▀wurst in three different sizes: 3, 5, & 7.

Back in those days... an "iS" meant something and so did an //M. But now we have these never ending Special Edition models - every month from BMW.

I think BMW needs to start listening to its customers more and less to its bean counters and marketing dept idiots. They need to built an affordable sports car for the masses. Along the lines of the 1M, but not limited or hard to get - like it was.


Dack
I don't think that mass producing low cost sports cars is even an option for BMW. They are a small auto company catering to the luxury market. They don't have the orientation, resources or capacity to do high volume/low margin. You're best hope is that the next Mini is most-fun/least-expensive, but even that will never be as cheap as a Toyburu. VW, GM, Ford, Hyundai - these are the companies that might jump into the fray with Toyburu, IF the Toyburu models are a big success. BMW needs to keep its eye on the people graduating from Toyburus. They need to be an alernative to Porsche.
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      07-13-2012, 10:39 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
I think in the 80's and 90's things were simpler at BMW... Gone are the days when BMW made it's wei▀wurst in three different sizes: 3, 5, & 7.

Back in those days... an "iS" meant something and so did an //M. But now we have these never ending Special Edition models - every month from BMW.

I think BMW needs to start listening to its customers more and less to its bean counters and marketing dept idiots. They need to built an affordable sports car for the masses. Along the lines of the 1M, but not limited or hard to get - like it was.


Dack
And that is exactly my point--instead of overusing the iS or M designation, just call the cosmetic stuff something else--then you can lessen the dilution of the motorsport brand and heritage.
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      07-13-2012, 05:07 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post

I have a bone stock 135 and it has at least 5 ///M badges that i can think of off the top of my head. Do they add anything to the car, performance-wise? Of course not...
I have badges on:
4 wheels
Steering wheel
Gear shift
2 door sills
Dead pedal (albeit not color)
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      07-13-2012, 06:09 PM   #72
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I remember when Lexus came out and BMW touted how BMW is the ultimate driving machine and if you wanted to experience the thrill of driving then buy a BMW but if you wanted a luxury car with a disconnected feel to the road then buy a Lexus. It seems both companies have migrated to the middle. Much harder to tell the two cars apart when behind the wheel nowadays. I think the success of competitors like Lexus and Infiniti are responsible for BMW being more of a luxury brand now and much less of a performance car.

Just a side note - IMO the newest M3 E9x which I have tried for so long to like (test drove like 5 different times) is a complete bore. Complete disappointment for me as I had the E36 and E46 before that. The 135i is so much more fun to drive. I hope the new M3 is much better.
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