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      07-14-2012, 12:46 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmarei View Post
Yet the E30 still has the best resale of any M3
If you can find one in excellent condition with low miles
It's worth more than sticker back when it was new
A lot more

Find me another BMW that has such good resale
If I'm not mistaken, the E30 was released in 1982 which, today, would, of course, make it a 30 year old car.

It's my opinion that any low mileage 30 year old car in excellent condition is going to be worth more than it's original sticker price - just on the basis of inflation alone. How much more, as you point out, is the question. That, I think, will be determined , in a manner of speaking, by what recognitions, distinctions and honors the car earns as it grows through it's youth. The E90/2/3 series, has, I think, earned quite a few of those. My guess is the car is on a trajectory to be a valuable item in 30 years. Keeping it at a low mileage would be the biggest challenge
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      07-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
My guess is the car is on a trajectory to be a valuable item in 30 years. Keeping it at a low mileage would be the biggest challenge
I agree the E9x M3's will be valuable. I have no idea why people don't believe this to be true. At the very LEAST the F8x M3 is going to be a symbol of when a great brand changed direction/philosophy. Whether you like the new direction/philosophy or not is absolutely irrelevent. There are going to be factions that just prefer the car that symbolizes/epitomizes an ideal that they hold near and dear. And let us not forget this almost directly coincides with the death of the manual transmission as well. 2 completely separate events that will be seen in the future with some congruence IMHO.
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      07-14-2012, 07:36 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
If I'm not mistaken, the E30 was released in 1982 which, today, would, of course, make it a 30 year old car.

It's my opinion that any low mileage 30 year old car in excellent condition is going to be worth more than it's original sticker price - just on the basis of inflation alone. How much more, as you point out, is the question. That, I think, will be determined , in a manner of speaking, by what recognitions, distinctions and honors the car earns as it grows through it's youth. The E90/2/3 series, has, I think, earned quite a few of those. My guess is the car is on a trajectory to be a valuable item in 30 years. Keeping it at a low mileage would be the biggest challenge
Well I'm talking about the M3 which was released in 88 in the states
An E30 M3 is worth at least 2-3 times the average E36
And I'm not talking about an example that has like 10,000 miles
I'm talking about a good condition example with over 100,000 miles
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      07-15-2012, 08:26 AM   #180
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the 2013 year should usher in nth more "edition" models...woohoo...
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      07-15-2012, 09:38 PM   #181
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Which track specials? The E30 Evo? Not sold here. M3 LTW? Sold for one year with the punched-out 325i engine, but wonder of wonders they're "hand picked" from all the other engines so you're guaranteed to get the best-performing punched-out 325i engine possible. At least it was lighter. FOR ONE MODEL YEAR, and oh by the way PTG were the ones who did final assembly, not BMW M. The E46? CSL wasn't sold here, maybe he's upset because the E46 Competition Package was such a huge improvement with its mouse-fur cruise-control delete steering wheel and wheels from a model we can't get here. What, exactly, was so much better 5, 10, 15, or 20 years ago in the US? M cars were still heavier and just as or more cushy than the base cars, M cars were still not up to prolonged track duty without improvements, M cars were still higher-performing STREET CARS and they always have been.

People are such goddamned whiners it's unbelievable.
Amen!

I don't get hung up on names, special edition status or any other mystical touchy feely things. This time BMW allows us to get a super cool color, cloth seats, all the M performance goodies all for the MSRP cost of all these options. Why whine about it, if you've ever wanted an orange M, jump on this.

And BTW, the M performance goodies are why you cannot do ED on it, they must be installed at the dealer and so BMW couldn't deliver a decontented car in Munich. Which is a major bummer, because otherwise I may have bought one.

I mean, the chance of driving an orange stick shift car on the Ring, that would be to die for!
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      07-15-2012, 10:41 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post
From the Jalopnik article.
"It's for guys who want to be associated with racetracks but don't actually go to the track themselves. It's for the modern poser racer. A luxury version of those fast and furious Honda civics with race seats and belts but stock engines that kids drive around on the street."
Anyone who drives a car on the street that they don't make 51% or more of their income from racing said car is either a poser or a hobbyist.

Personally I don't know anyone who makes money track-racing their daily driver.

So I guess I'm more comfortable labeling the author a hobbyist.
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      07-17-2012, 11:37 AM   #183
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      07-17-2012, 06:27 PM   #184
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What is wrong with some "special editions" at the end of the life cycle of the E92 M3?
Not a damn thing!
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      07-17-2012, 07:59 PM   #185
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This edition should be perfect for me. I also need a picture of me racing the M3 for some creds,maybe this year i'll get Bridgestone to sponsor my car.
A wannabe race car driver can dream,right?
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      07-17-2012, 09:08 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Amen!
I mean, the chance of driving an orange stick shift car on the Ring, that would be to die for!
I agree!
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      07-17-2012, 09:49 PM   #187
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When are we going to see the BMW M3 "PEN 15 Edition"??
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      07-18-2012, 04:06 PM   #188
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Just found this article posted on July 11/2012

Why the Death of the BMW M Brand May Be Greatly Exaggerated: The Performance M3

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2012/07/11...erformance-m3/



The new M3 Lime Rock Edition has created some debate within the enthusiast community. For some it’s a well specced M3. But to others it’s a bit of a poseur-mobile, especially to Jalopnik and our friend Bill Caswell. Why? It’s an M3 right? It comes down to expectations. Those expectations were set in 2003 with the E46 CSL. And that’s the problem. Outside of the M3 CRT (of which only 67 were made) there isn’t an M3 ever made that really compares favorably to it.

That brings us back to the recently announced M3 LRE. Why does it exist and not a new CSL? As detailed in the last BimmerCast BMW had planned on creating E92 CSL with the engine that ended up in the GTS and CRT as well as a stripped out interior and loads of carbon fiber. However, with the melt-down of the worldwide economy in 2008, the car was unceremoniously cancelled in 2009. Components of it later showed up in the GTS and the CRT but the E92 CSL died at the hands of accountants.

BMWNA has thus had their hands tied. There was an expectation that the E92 CSL would have come to the US and would have filled the gap above the Competition package as the ultimate M car for hardcore enthusiasts. Without it BMWNA has been left to create their own series of well-specced M3s that don’t offer greater performance but instead exclusivity.

So why can’t BMWNA do more and why has there NEVER been a performance version of the M3 brought stateside? Most do not understand the difficulties of homologating a new engine model or a new feature that impacts safety such as seats into the US market. There are loads of government regulations that must be followed, testing procedures completed and all of that adds enormous costs to a model- heck some models won’t even meet the regulations so they can’t be brought here.



Big deal right? BMW could of course charge more money. But it depends on what the “more” is. In the case of bringing the GTS or CRT to the US it would have been hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars depending on what testing needs to be completed. For a limited run car that would make the price ridiculously high and would be difficult to sell. BMWNA is also not in the business of subsidizing limited run cars as a loss leader. It makes little business sense and does not increase sales to other models to justify the costs. That is why we have seen limited editions stateside with window dressing rather than full on performance improvements like the M3 GTS or M3 CRT. There was one exception to this rule of the US not receiving a performance model: the E46 M3 GTR which sold for almost a cool quarter of a million green backs and was necessary to meet homolagtion rules to keep BMWNA and team PTG racing in ALMS (Even at that price the 10 sold units were subsidized by BMW). (Editor: While 3 M3 GTRs were produced none were ever sold).

But you may be thinking, Mercedes is doing it with the “Black” models and Corvette is doing it as well by offering performance editions. Let’s consider the concept that Mercedes uses the “Black” series cars as part of their marketing strategy for sporty cars. Rather than racing any cars on the continent, MB chooses to subsidize “Blacks” to make them significantly less expensive than they should be so there are more out there and seem more obtainable- they have a history of this with the Maybach (they sold the car for less than they put in to subsidize it). Corvette is a different situation entirely- GM uses Corvette as a tool to sell other products and uses other products to reach economies of scale financially. GM subsidizes the limit run high performance cars by tacking on money to other models, $100 on a Cruze, a $150 on Impala and say $200 on a Camaro (you get the idea). In the GM scenario everyone else that is driving a product supports the person driving that limited edition car- the masses made it easier to afford. GM says it is part of R&D and engineering but none of that tech used in the limited cars a la ZR1 makes it to anything else for many many years if at all. The key is that they show it off as the obtainable sports car that drives the rest of the brand. Let’s also not forget GM just a few years ago took a government bailout because it was so far in the red.



BMW needs to do something different, as there is a market for these products and with others offering such things they can’t be the only one’s not catering to it. The F80 M3 will reach the market next year and according to certain sources in Munich it may usher in a new era of performance editions. It is highly probable for BMW to offer two versions of the M3, a base model and a more performance oriented model. This is an easy way to make more profits and to keep up with the Jones’ while not having to subsidize product. There are some out there that want a more sinister M3 than what is generally ok with the masses and that is not a bad thing but BMW needs to give them something without the need for the aftermarket. With the “IS” models we saw how BMW could take the turbo engines, tweak the software and add cooling to increase the performance aspect while not needing to retest for EPA or crash tests. This is more than likely coming to the M3 in a hypothetical “M Performance Edition”. The investment is less thanks to not needing all the additional testing and the profit margins are steeper.

So now the regular M3 will be watered down and I’ll need to buy the “M Performance Edition” to get the car I would have bought in the past is probably running through the back of your mind. Based on what we know, we can confidently say that that’s not going to be the case. The next M3 in base form will be superior to the current offering and will still be every bit a driver’s car for the street and occasional track excursions. The “M Performance Edition” F80 M3 will be more track oriented with a bit of power boost and a more aggressive exhaust note with a stiffer and lower suspension. BWM is not going to go crazy with this product, it will still be comfortable and luxurious but it will give some wanting more a morsel to nibble on.

While many are concluding that M is on its death-bed, the truth is that our sources are saying a new era is about to begin.
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      07-18-2012, 05:11 PM   #189
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So why can't anyone explain to me why Porsche can bring VERY limited edition cars like the GT3-RS, GT2-RS, GT3-RS 4.0 (super rare), here and make money? They even have very limited cars like the Cayman R, Boxster Spyder here with different engines than the stock engines?

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      07-19-2012, 09:44 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
So why can't anyone explain to me why Porsche can bring VERY limited edition cars like the GT3-RS, GT2-RS, GT3-RS 4.0 (super rare), here and make money? They even have very limited cars like the Cayman R, Boxster Spyder here with different engines than the stock engines?

.
That is the $150k question.

BMW doesn't think it can sell cars in that price bracket, and they are probably right. They would get to that price because of the stroker, if they had just tweaked the standard engine they would have been fine.

If you remove the special engine from the equation, like Porsche did with the Spyder and Cayman R, the price is not too outrageous. BMW should have done just that.

Of course in BMWs case it's complicated by the fact that they would need to remove a LOT of weight to make it memorable, which is not the case with Porsche.
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      07-19-2012, 11:23 PM   #191
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Let say they gave this Lime Rock "Edition" the Brembos and KW coilovers, and maybe the splitter. No engine changes or weight loss. No one would be complaining at all.

Also, both the Cayman R and Boxster Spyder have engines that make more power than the standard cars. Wouldn't they have to get those engines certified?

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      07-20-2012, 07:06 AM   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Let say they gave this Lime Rock "Edition" the Brembos and KW coilovers, and maybe the splitter. No engine changes or weight loss. No one would be complaining at all.

Also, both the Cayman R and Boxster Spyder have engines that make more power than the standard cars. Wouldn't they have to get those engines certified?

.
I'm not sure I would take the KW over EDC, IMO it's one of the best features of the car. Just my preference... I can put Brembos on myself if I want to, not sure I'd like BMW to hike the price up another $10k just for brakes...

As to the engines, the analogy with the tweaked engines is like the 335is - my impression is that there is some level of certification involved, but not as extensive as for a different engine.

Consider this, for a pure track car the M3 platform is way too heavy, which means its costly to pare down the weight, ree-engineer the suspension etc. Porsche is placed in a much better starting position with the Cayman, Boxster and 911.

Anyway, it's a moot point for me, I'm not in the market for any car over $70k...
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      07-20-2012, 01:52 PM   #193
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Just got word.... Lime Rock Edition

Just got word from my buddy at BMW of NWA, they are getting one of the Lime Rock editions here in Northwest Arkansas. I am supposed to get a call as soon as it arrives. Will post pics when I get them.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of this edition but I'll sure go out of my way to check it out.
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      07-20-2012, 02:12 PM   #194
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If you are not a fan, why go out of your way? It's a M3 with hardly any changes. Just look at yours in the garage and image a dashboard plaque. Yippie
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      07-20-2012, 02:14 PM   #195
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If you are not a fan, why go out of your way? It's a M3 with hardly any changes. Just look at yours in the garage and image a dashboard plaque. Yippie
Can I get an Amen
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      07-20-2012, 02:24 PM   #196
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I would!

Quote:
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If you are not a fan, why go out of your way? It's a M3 with hardly any changes. Just look at yours in the garage and image a dashboard plaque. Yippie
I would still go see it in-person too.

I need a hobby.
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      07-20-2012, 02:24 PM   #197
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Can I get an Amen
AMEN

halleluiah!

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      08-30-2012, 03:22 PM   #198
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UPDATED: Video featuring Bill Auberlen and Skip Barber discussing M3 Coupe Lime Rock Edition and Lime Rock Park racing circuit.

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