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      07-08-2012, 08:42 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post
I wouldnt call an M car that weighs almost as much as an E90/92 NA high reving V8 M3, with almost identical performance, with a 135i,335i,535i's etc. N54 With an upgraded intake and cooling ... a Gift.
While I agree with most of your points, you're completely off on the 1M. It's the closest successor to the E30 M3. It's indeed one of the top M products ever produced and it's a shame that it could have been even better if it weren't for the limited resources and time for development. The 135/335/535 are far from being comparable in performance and in fact the 1M outperforms the porky E9x M3 on many tracks. FYI - the 1M has a 300# and +70 lb-ft advantage over the E9x M3. At one time I was a naysayer until I drove one and now I own one.

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Originally Posted by PrimoM3 View Post
While I agree with you that the 1M was a huge letdown, your argument about the Corvette is shortsighted. What if anything about the Corvette is luxurious? And how about the safety scores? Or how about build quality? Everything in a Corvette looks like an 80's GE appliance and rattles like crazy. Yes, it's faster and lighter, but at the expense of the aforementioned.

The M3 is a great street car with sporting roots - it's also been called the benchmark again and again- but it's not a competitor to the Corvette, nor has it ever been (from the factory).
BMW made a commercial decision to focus on the bottom line than staying with the roots of the E30 M3. The original was far from being luxurious. Also, unlike the Corvette, the M3 has inhaled 1,000# since the original; whereas the Corvette's weight has remained nearly identical for the same period. For BMW it's all about profit and how many units they can sell. They could careless for it's largest M market, the US, and that's why we don't get the special editions. To me Porsche knows their bread and butter. They're building lighter cars and bringing special edition cars to the US, their largest market. The Boxter Spyder and Cayman R are special editions with ~100 units each for the US market.
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      07-08-2012, 09:47 PM   #134
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l-i-m-i-t-ed...... should give us something with a bump in performance
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      07-08-2012, 10:31 PM   #135
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love the orange !
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      07-08-2012, 10:54 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by fastauto View Post
i saw that car last monday while i was at the track for the SCDA event. not bad looking at all!
I saw it there as well, the color was pretty cool. Fastauto, were you in the same group as me (Novice)? I had the 335d and there was an AW 1M in our group.
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      07-09-2012, 12:29 AM   #137
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I don't think the arguement about bmw not bringing over their CSL/GTS/CRT engines is due to gov't regulations.

Too many other cars including Ford which made a totally new engine with the Shelby 500 (not totally but as different as a gts engine is than an base s65). They will sell as many shelby 500's as bmw would sell GTS's if they brought them here so that arguement just does not hold.

I really do not get it even from a business perspective.

I did read on this forum that bmw is going to be introducing the M cars much more quickly when a new line is introduced and this should enable them to have a few more years to bring these special upgraded Csl'-types to the U.S.

People also say they can't include new race-seatss etc because of crash tests. Well even cadillac V offers a few seat choices. Its really not hard or expensive. They should be producing the m3 and the CSL at the same time and price accordingly. No need to wait until the last couple years to have the CSL.

If they wanted huge sales, release the m3 a year after the new 3 series. Then within 1 year release the CSL/GTS and release it at a price point that is more reasonable a la' 30k extra, and produce many more of them over the rest of the life of the vehicle which will give them about 4-5 years of sales to recoup any extra costs.

purely business wise this makes the most sense so I do not get it.
It is over 1 million dollars to homologate a new model- what a car company chooses to do in order to spread that cost is their own decision.

Ford/ Cadillac etx. spread the cost of that "special edition" to other models so those that are buying that base model are subsidizing the cost of that special edition- GM has been doing that for years with the Corvette.

BMW doesn't work that way and never had. Each model stands on its own.

MB subsidizes "black" cars in the US as their "racing budget"- Is cadillac racing? No, do they have a parts bin from GM that has homologated engines and seats? Yes.

I do not understand why people can't grasp this concept. BMW is an independent manufacturer with a parts bin from only within. They are still a low volume brand with less than 2 million sales worldwide and only a few hundred thousand in the US. Reaching economies of scale for homologation in the US is not easy- they do not have the Chevy cruise that they can build an extra few hundred dollars into to support a special seat for the people that want a special edition 'Vette.

You all may get your wish though- BMW just may say we don't need racing anymore, all people want are supped up special editions to brag to their friends about at the local coffee shop. "Let's put the millions into subsidizing those hardcore "fans" and forget racing- heck we may even make pizza delivery guys happy."
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      07-09-2012, 03:53 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
Is that the same car that they couldn't sell at first and had to build in a ton of trunk money? People seem to recall "Facts" about the E30 M3 that are just not realistic.

The E30 M3 sold so poorly in the US the E36 M3 almost didn't happen, now that is the true story.
I remembered reading somewhere that BMW had to downgrade e36 m3's euro 321hp engine to 240hp engine, so that the e36 m3 would be "more affordable" for US market.
What a shame.
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      07-09-2012, 09:11 AM   #139
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Don't you guys know that ever since the US E36 M3 was introduced that "M" is for Marketing and not Motorsports.

Come on wake up!

That is why I don't track a BMW anymore.......

Chet
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      07-09-2012, 11:19 AM   #140
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      07-09-2012, 11:35 AM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cme View Post
Don't you guys know that ever since the US E36 M3 was introduced that "M" is for Marketing and not Motorsports.

Come on wake up!

That is why I don't track a BMW anymore.......

Chet
Way off base. E36 was not a true //M either. I had one and loved it but it had a regular engine. The E46, E60, E92 have true /M engines.


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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      07-09-2012, 01:52 PM   #142
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Way off base. E36 was not a true //M either. I had one and loved it but it had a regular engine. The E46, E60, E92 have true /M engines.


.
You have been drinking the BMW Kool-Aid. I love BMW's and own 4 of them currently and have owned a dozen in the last 20 years. The build their new M-cars so they can sell more of them. Take a new stock M3 to any track and see how long those brakes and tires last trying to hurl 3,500lbs around. They are great cars but more sport coupes and tourers vs. true sports cars.
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      07-09-2012, 02:06 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cme View Post
You have been drinking the BMW Kool-Aid. I love BMW's and own 4 of them currently and have owned a dozen in the last 20 years. The build their new M-cars so they can sell more of them. Take a new stock M3 to any track and see how long those brakes and tires last trying to hurl 3,500lbs around. They are great cars but more sport coupes and tourers vs. true sports cars.
And you owned 20 (and 4 now) becasue they're all marketing, right? Yes, they market to a broader audience and sell more of them now. It's called a business, dude. Staying profitable means staying around, and the ability to continue innovating and bringing "benchmark" cars to market in the future.

So the Limerock is not the raddest Special Edition ever made. It's better than a sharp stick in the eye, and pretty decent kit for the price. All people do is bitch...
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      07-09-2012, 03:02 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by PrimoM3 View Post
And you owned 20 (and 4 now) becasue they're all marketing, right? Yes, they market to a broader audience and sell more of them now. It's called a business, dude. Staying profitable means staying around, and the ability to continue innovating and bringing "benchmark" cars to market in the future.

So the Limerock is not the raddest Special Edition ever made. It's better than a sharp stick in the eye, and pretty decent kit for the price. All people do is bitch...
I assume you don't track your M3. If you did then you would follow what I am saying. Why name a car a "Lime Rock" special when there are no performance upgrades. Take a stock Lime Rock M3 to a DE and the brakes will be toast by the end of the day.

Yes people like me complain because BMW "can" make awesome cars and once upon time they did make cars that were great out of the box. They have choosen not to in order to attact a wide array of buyers. They have diluted the M brand as modern day M-cars are very porky. Nothing wrong with that but they should continue to make or offer lightweight and more motorsport oriented autos.

Chet
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      07-09-2012, 03:10 PM   #145
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And you owned 20 (and 4 now) ...
I said I have owned a dozen.....including 4 E30 M3's, various E36s, E39, E60. I still have in my possesion a 90 M3 Sport Evo, 72 02tii, and E39 540i.

Just for perspective.....why would BMW NA sell a "fake" GTS w/o any of the go-fast parts. What do you think.........Motorsports......Wrong.

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      07-09-2012, 03:59 PM   #146
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I said I have owned a dozen.....including 4 E30 M3's, various E36s, E39, E60. I still have in my possesion a 90 M3 Sport Evo, 72 02tii, and E39 540i.

Just for perspective.....why would BMW NA sell a "fake" GTS w/o any of the go-fast parts. What do you think.........Motorsports......Wrong.

Chet
You're arguments are ridiculous. So, because the brakes after heavy track use the car is all marketing? Pssht! And because the Limerock is orange it's a fake GTS?? WTF? Where do you come up with this stuff? BMW didn't clai it was a GTS. It's a special trim package on an ALREADY competent sport coupe that still butchers the competition 6 years into its lifecyle. Your argument was about the cars being all marketing, not whether the older ones were more "pure".

And yes, I've tracked all of my cars aside from my first Jetta at age 16 many moons ago. My e92 is awaiting production and I will be tracking the car at Laguna and T-Hill after break-in on the Nurburgring in September.
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      07-09-2012, 04:01 PM   #147
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Ouch

http://jalopnik.com/5924573/the-death-of-bmws-m-brand
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      07-09-2012, 05:59 PM   #148
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The Lime Rock Edition is a total poser mobile.
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      07-09-2012, 06:13 PM   #149
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Not only do they rip that car apart but pretty much indict all owners of any M3 made since the turn of the century...
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      07-09-2012, 06:29 PM   #150
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You have been drinking the BMW Kool-Aid. I love BMW's and own 4 of them currently and have owned a dozen in the last 20 years. The build their new M-cars so they can sell more of them. Take a new stock M3 to any track and see how long those brakes and tires last trying to hurl 3,500lbs around. They are great cars but more sport coupes and tourers vs. true sports cars.
I tracked just fine with stock brakes and pads. I'm not the fastest by any means but get my share of point by's. You just have to manage your brakes a lot more. Am I happy with the stock brakes? HELL NO, but the E36 didn't have a true //M engine- end of story.

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      07-09-2012, 06:36 PM   #151
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Not only do they rip that car apart but pretty much indict all owners of any M3 made since the turn of the century...
I actually agree with what Bill Caswell says in the article.The M cars have moved towards being mass appeal vehicles for non drivers.I love my present M as much as any of my previous M cars which I have driven from 1987 but I really dislike where there are going with each new model that M introduces.These paint bomb specials do nothing to help their cause!I do track at least 15 times a year so maybe I am not the kind of client that BMW desires to appeal to in the future.
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      07-09-2012, 06:45 PM   #152
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Thanks for posting the pics in post #134. I keep telling myself there is nothing special whatsoever about this LRP Edition M3, then I look at those aforementioned photos and I'm inexplicably impressed. I've never been a Fire Orange fan until these pics. Though the car is not special enough, it's alright with me.
Make no mistake, I do desire a "real special" edition M3 to send this current car off. I fear it won't happen.
FYI, I have agreed with the Caswell article for a while now.
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      07-09-2012, 06:57 PM   #153
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Here's what i dont understand, most BMW dealers are selling their fire orange,speed yellow,dakar yellow M3's in the mid $80k, Ford/ GM offer similar colors for the Mustang/Camaro at no additional cost.

Even Porsche doesnt charge you extra for a yellow 911.
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      07-09-2012, 07:01 PM   #154
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I agree this is a stupid model. They are loosing their edge.

The japolink article made me sad.
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