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      06-26-2012, 01:38 AM   #1
Drifty//
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Can lowering reduce rubbing of front tires?

I'm on 275/35R18 ET25 and my front tires rub against the rear wall of the wheel well at a bit over half of the steering range. For lowering to help, it would have to move the front wheels forward. Is that the direction of suspension travel?

I've read that some people are running the same wheels & tires without rubbing, but at least one of them is lowered. Is lowering the key, or might there be some other variation at work, such as different camber plates?
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      06-26-2012, 08:06 AM   #2
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Lowering adds negative camber which many times can allow a tire to clear where it wouldn't before.
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      06-26-2012, 12:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
I'm on 275/35R18 ET25 and my front tires rub against the rear wall of the wheel well at a bit over half of the steering range. For lowering to help, it would have to move the front wheels forward. Is that the direction of suspension travel?

I've read that some people are running the same wheels & tires without rubbing, but at least one of them is lowered. Is lowering the key, or might there be some other variation at work, such as different camber plates?
This is a function of tire diameter and width combined with wheel offset. I had this problem on my M3 with Nitto NT-01's and the only solution was to run narrower or smaller diameter tires, and there are 275's that take up less space. What tires are you running on what rims, and are you running spacers as well? The problem is caused because the distance from the center of rotation of the strut to the outside corner of the tire is too long, and as you turn the steering wheel it sweeps an arc that intersects the liner at the back. You can fix it by moving the tire in (less offset), using a smaller diameter tire, or a tire with a narrower tread face.

If this is happening only on the passenger's side, there's a possibility that your windshield washer fluid reservoir has come adrift. It's mounted behind the wheel well liner at the back, and if it's come off its moorings then it pushes the liner forward and it will rub against the back of the tire when you turn the wheel.

If that is the problem, remounting the reservoir and reinstalling the liner will fix it, but when I had the issue, the reason it was loose in the first place was that the suspension would flex back under hard braking (track use) and the tire would hammer the liner and knock the tank loose. So the fix didn't last past the next track day.

Lowering won't change anything.
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      06-26-2012, 12:17 PM   #4
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Lowering adds negative camber which many times can allow a tire to clear where it wouldn't before.
^THIS..
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      06-26-2012, 12:19 PM   #5
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Lowering adds negative camber which many times can allow a tire to clear where it wouldn't before.
Adding negative camber, with or without lowering, helps if the tire is hitting the top of the fender arch. That's not the problem here and lowering or increasing the camber won't have much of an effect.
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      06-26-2012, 12:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
I'm on 275/35R18 ET25 and my front tires rub against the rear wall of the wheel well at a bit over half of the steering range. For lowering to help, it would have to move the front wheels forward. Is that the direction of suspension travel?

I've read that some people are running the same wheels & tires without rubbing, but at least one of them is lowered. Is lowering the key, or might there be some other variation at work, such as different camber plates?
You need a different tire. Or do like I did and wait for them (and the liner) to wear down a bit. Mine don't rub anymore.
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      06-27-2012, 01:34 AM   #7
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Thanks for the feedback. I had the wheels off (re-installing stock fronts, while I get this sorted out, since they still have some tread left) and it seems like lowering will move the wheels back, if anything. That's counter-productive, for my issue.

Anyway, the rubbing is on both sides. I'm using 275/35R18 on a ET25 wheel (no spacers). I guess I'll have to downgrade to 265/35R18.

Since these are ultimately destined to be my track wheels, half the steering range should be plenty. I'm thinking I'll try to wear down these tires, though I'd better do a lot of track days since I'm no longer using them on the street!
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      06-27-2012, 10:56 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
Thanks for the feedback. I had the wheels off (re-installing stock fronts, while I get this sorted out, since they still have some tread left) and it seems like lowering will move the wheels back, if anything. That's counter-productive, for my issue.

Anyway, the rubbing is on both sides. I'm using 275/35R18 on a ET25 wheel (no spacers). I guess I'll have to downgrade to 265/35R18.

Since these are ultimately destined to be my track wheels, half the steering range should be plenty. I'm thinking I'll try to wear down these tires, though I'd better do a lot of track days since I'm no longer using them on the street!
What size wheels do you have? Stating your offset without telling us your wheel width doesn't tell us much...
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      06-27-2012, 11:33 AM   #9
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In this case, the rim width doesn't matter. The tire tread is what's hitting, and the width of the tread face doesn't change as you change rim width. The only thing that moves it is offset.
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      06-27-2012, 11:39 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
...Anyway, the rubbing is on both sides. I'm using 275/35R18 on a ET25 wheel (no spacers). I guess I'll have to downgrade to 265/35R18...
This just doesn't sound right to me. Are you sure the car hasn't been in an accident or otherwise had the front cross-member moved? I ran a set of 285/35x18's on ET25 rims on mine once and it was fine on the driver's side. This isn't making sense.

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...I'd better do a lot of track days...
That's a great idea!
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      06-27-2012, 11:02 PM   #11
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This just doesn't sound right to me. Are you sure the car hasn't been in an accident or otherwise had the front cross-member moved?
Well, I had a pre-purchase inspection by the head mechanic at a shop that does a lot of track prep. He's also a PCA event organizer.

I've had camber plates installed at another shop that does track prep (including a lot of alignment work), and they didn't note anything suspicious.

The miles on the car are consistent with the tire wear (original tires still on the wheels). The previous owner had another set of wheels on there for about a year, but I know he sold those. I guess he could have had a set in between...

No accident on the record, BTW.

Quote:
I ran a set of 285/35x18's on ET25 rims on mine once and it was fine on the driver's side.
Front???

I'm pretty sure I've seen one or two others mention 275/35R18's rubbing in front. They seem like they just might work on a higher offset wheel.
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      07-01-2012, 02:52 PM   #12
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I have 275/35R18s and have no rubbing issues Its not even close. Maybe your alignment is way out of spec or something?
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      07-03-2012, 11:26 PM   #13
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I have 275/35R18s and have no rubbing issues Its not even close. Maybe your alignment is way out of spec or something?
You have a 2011 E90. I have a 2008 E92. Could either the difference in years or the difference in chassis have anything to do with it?
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      07-04-2012, 12:00 AM   #14
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You have a 2011 E90. I have a 2008 E92. Could either the difference in years or the difference in chassis have anything to do with it?
My E92 was one of the first 2008 M3's in North America, delivered 18 days after release for sale. So, no, it's not a year-to-year difference. Something else is causing this.
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      07-04-2012, 09:38 AM   #15
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what is the wheel width? your tire sounds too tall.
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      07-04-2012, 10:40 PM   #16
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what is the wheel width? your tire sounds too tall.
Wheels are Apex ARC-8 10" ET25. Tires are Dunlop Direzza Star Spec 275/35R18. Car is 2008 E92 with EDC. It came with 220M 19" wheels.
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      07-04-2012, 10:53 PM   #17
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I have the same tire and wheel setup and I don't rub at all. Odd.
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      07-04-2012, 11:14 PM   #18
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I have the same tire and wheel setup and I don't rub at all. Odd.
That was my impression too. Something else is not right here.
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      07-05-2012, 11:25 PM   #19
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Quote:
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That was my impression too. Something else is not right here.
Maybe I'll take it into Turner and have them look at it.

Thanks, all, for your info & opinions.

I received this advice in another thread:
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Originally Posted by Eddy@ApexRaceParts View Post
fender liners are not perfectly molded or consistently attached.
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Originally Posted by Eddy@ApexRaceParts View Post
It may be worth checking to see how your liners are installed as something seems out of spec.
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