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      06-29-2012, 04:16 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r3dbimmer89 View Post
This is all to save some $$$...BMW Group and Toyota Motor Company are two of the most profitable automotive brands in the world so to move forward with all their "green tech" they found a way to save even more costs. This is only a joint partnership of technologies. The same way BMW jointly developed the Tritec engine with Chrysler and the Prince engine with PSA Peugeot/Citroen. It's all about saving some dough but what caught me off guard is the BMW/Toyota sports car. I just can't see a BMW FT86 but who says it's going to be branded a BMW. It may be an i brand vehicle or a Mini and its Japanese counterpart may be the Toyota version. BMW wouldn't make a BMW/Lexus sports car ...they're smarter than that even though only Americans and Canadians would buy it since no one else in world seems to take Lexus serious.

Toyota has the GT86 but BMW has no Z2. Lexus has the LFA but BMW has no M1 successor, the rival of the R8. If they are going to build sportscars together, it is not that that they will just have different badges like the GT86 and BRZ. Each shall have their own engine, though a togehter developed TT I6 with both M and Yamaha tech and know-how would be awsome, their design and such. The only thing that would be shared, would be the platform, which also will be the most expensive thing because made of CF in some cases, but due to the collaboration the costs would be lower. This would permit BMW to have their R8 rival, the M-One or whatever they call it, and would permit Lexus to build a more affordable LFA, it would permit Toyota to bring back the Supra and permit BMW to build the M-Two, and lastly the next generation GT86 platform could be built together with BMW for them to have their Z2. Toyota would put in it a some H4 and BMW some small displacement I6, at least that is what I wish.

IMO FI 2.0 I4 < FI 2.0 I6
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      06-29-2012, 04:20 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Toyota has the GT86 but BMW has no Z2. Lexus has the LFA but BMW has no M1 successor, the rival of the R8. If they are going to build sportscars together, it is not that that they will just have different badges like the GT86 and BRZ. Each shall have their own engine, though a togehter developed TT I6 with both M and Yamaha tech and know-how would be awsome, their design and such. The only thing that would be shared, would be the platform, which also will be the most expensive thing because made of CF in some cases, but due to the collaboration the costs would be lower. This would permit BMW to have their R8 rival, the M-One or whatever they call it, and would permit Lexus to build a more affordable LFA, it would permit Toyota to bring back the Supra and permit BMW to build the M-Two, and lastly the next generation GT86 platform could be built together with BMW for them to have their Z2. Toyota would put in it a some H4 and BMW some small displacement I6, at least that is what I wish.

IMO FI 2.0 I4 < FI 2.0 I6
Makes sense
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      06-29-2012, 04:34 PM   #69
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Sounds smart to me, split the R&D costs while swapping technologies...the final product has enormous potential. Hopefully Toyota will impart some better reliability on the bimmers without compromising the BMW driving dynamics.
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      06-29-2012, 04:38 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by scflaw View Post
You can call me a Toyota Hater if you guys want, our family owns a Toyota noah and I think its a piece of rubbish. Handles like a boat and only gets 400 to a tank.. Drove the ES for a bit, apart from the sound insulation it feels just like a camry. Nothing spectacular.
Sounds like you bought rubbish cars and are blaming the OEM instead of blaming yourself.

Your comments are a bit like saying the base 528i is rubbish because its 4 cylinder engine sounds shit and lacks smoothness, while the car itself is a pathetic excuse for a luxury car because it doesn't have leather seats or xenon headlights.

With lexus as with BMW you get what you pay for.
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      06-29-2012, 05:07 PM   #71
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Sounds like some of the marketing people like to impress the Japanese customers in purchasing more of the BMW half of the business LOL I just don't understand it. In my opinion BMW is making a big mistake ... thinking about the Mercedes Merger with Chrysler then they got rid of it again ... time will tell what this will bring.

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      06-29-2012, 05:22 PM   #72
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Sounds like some of the marketing people like to impress the Japanese customers in purchasing more of the BMW half of the business LOL I just don't understand it. In my opinion BMW is making a big mistake ... thinking about the Mercedes Merger with Chrysler then they got rid of it again ... time will tell what this will bring.
There's a big difference.

This is not a merger.

Chrysler has always been a basket case going bankrupt every 10 years.

With the exception of the period after the earthquake, Toyota has been the most profitable and successful auto maker over the past 30 years.
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      06-29-2012, 05:25 PM   #73
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      06-29-2012, 05:43 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth.pilot View Post
There's a big difference.

This is not a merger.

Chrysler has always been a basket case going bankrupt every 10 years.

With the exception of the period after the earthquake, Toyota has been the most profitable and successful auto maker over the past 30 years.
I don't know I'm a great believer to stick to my own, I've been in business for 20 years so when I needed more input I hired the right people and "just got it done"

I would have never thought of working with a competiter to develop a better product. We have a saying in German "Selbst ist Der Man" (translation do it yourself or get it done on your own" I somehow think BMW is striding along a very different path.

Look at the Z4 build in the USA up to 2008. Why do you think a bunch of BMW exacetives went to the US and made the decision to move production of the Z4 (2009 and up) back to Germany? ... I have a good hunch ... the word is quality. I know this first hand I drove a 2008 Z4 then got into a 2009 Z4 the difference was like night and day as far as quality is concerned.

Anyway however wrong my hunch here might be I smell something fishy here if they proceed ... I certainley would not get into one no way. I am a true BMW fan don't get me wrong I still have our first one a 535is from 1987 in the family runs like a charm.
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      06-29-2012, 06:31 PM   #75
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HYFR!!! BMW and TOYOTA doing big things, only good can come out of this merger
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      06-29-2012, 06:48 PM   #76
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german car with a hint of japanese engineering/technology
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      06-29-2012, 06:59 PM   #77
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Japanese reliability to complement BMW technology and design = win for customer. Couldn't be a better recipe. Great strategic partnerhsip between two great companies with individual strengths.
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      06-29-2012, 07:06 PM   #78
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I can live with BMW/Toyota joint sports car so long as BMW allows yamaha to tune the sound. I still get goosebumps listening to throttle blips of that manic V10 in LFA. That is the best sound on the planet outside tifosi.

No turbos pls BMW/Toyota
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      06-29-2012, 08:16 PM   #79
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hey, what's all this panic. if they come out with something you don't like - don't buy it.
demand determines market. if they don't sell any, i am sure they will cut production off immediately.

For Gods Sake, it's a bmw - not Ferrari....lol.
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      06-29-2012, 08:17 PM   #80
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btw, i think the brz and fr-s is a winner. for 25k you can have a fun car and reliable as well.
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      06-29-2012, 08:39 PM   #81
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.....growth growth growth.... I dont know what to think. FOCUS
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      06-29-2012, 09:12 PM   #82
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Thats no Toyota (in the picture) thats a Suburu!
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      06-29-2012, 09:18 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by stefan View Post
First came weight, then too much electronic intervention, then turbos of all things, then the dilution of the M brand, the death of hydraulic steering, and now this. BMW is a shadow of its former self. Is this still the brand we grew up loving?

Two brands that have completely lost their way. Heck, Toyota had to look to SUBARU of all companies to figure out how to build a sporty car. What could they possibly offer each other?
Harsh, but I can't say I don't feel this way too and could add more. I am still really interested to see where a Toyota/BMW alliance will lead though.
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      06-29-2012, 09:59 PM   #84
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All I have to say is :
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      06-29-2012, 10:10 PM   #85
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Yes on the right it isss a Toyota, and I think the picture gets the point across loud and clear.

I bet Toyota builds the car, and BMW supplies the engine...

Bimmeru here we come.

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Thats no Toyota (in the picture) thats a Suburu!
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      06-29-2012, 11:24 PM   #86
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The Toyota BRZ is a phenomenal sports car and I am very optimistic about the results of this new partnership. Both great companies with different strengths that complement each other very well.
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      06-30-2012, 12:40 AM   #87
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      06-30-2012, 12:41 AM   #88
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I think Toyota may already be developing BMW's electric power steering.

BMW is loosing their way I am sad to say. I am seriously considering an Audi S4, if time permits I am going to do some test driving this weekend. I have driven BMW's my whole life but they are driving me (and other driving enthusiasts) away by becoming the ultimate techno-nonsense machine.
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