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      06-29-2012, 10:26 AM   #23
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Toyota and BMW are two of the most forward thinking, and agile companies in the auto industry. They both adapt to change and are proactive to future trends. Which allows both companies to lead the industry in their respective markets. Toyota has had hybrids on the market long before most manufactures, and currently lead the industry in sales of hybrid vehicles. BMW is years ahead of the other premium auto makers in bringing sustainable hybrid, and electric vehicles to the market, in a completely new way. With the clean sheet design of the I-brand that focuses on sustainability all the way through the production process, and value chain. Along with BMWs industry leading production processes for mass producing carbon fiber in a cost effective way out of their own plant they have in a joint venture with SQL . This will give them a competitive edge over the competition in terms of pricing, and accessibility to the material. This partnership will create a juggernaut for future EV/hybrid technology development, and manufacturing that should have the rest of the auto industry very worried.
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      06-29-2012, 10:33 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
Everyone mentions "Toyota reliability" but fails to realize the communications systems in a Camry are completely different than anything found in a BMW. BMWs use fiber optic bus systems, which are faster, but also more expensive and less reliable. BMW has no issues with engine reliability, it is their electronics. Seeing as how Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the advanced electronics that BMW does, I doubt they will be able to improve reliability...
Yeah, that LFA is so dated, what were they thinking?
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      06-29-2012, 10:43 AM   #25
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Can't wait to see what they come up with.
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      06-29-2012, 10:49 AM   #26
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i love both companies! great move, cant wait to see what they cook up
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      06-29-2012, 10:57 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
Seeing as how Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the advanced electronics that BMW does,


You're kidding right?
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      06-29-2012, 10:58 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1 View Post
Yeah, that LFA is so dated, what were they thinking?
Lexus just started using the MOST bus architecture in 2009, BMW has used it since the E65 7er. That's nearly 10 more years of R&D into the technology on BMW's part. Believe me, no one is more advanced in the electronics BUS systems than BMW, now if they could only make them more reliable...
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      06-29-2012, 11:04 AM   #29
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Badge Engineering :(

I've seen the concepts and they are really special!
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Last edited by ESC OFF; 06-29-2012 at 11:11 AM.
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      06-29-2012, 11:04 AM   #30
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      06-29-2012, 11:09 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06 View Post
Everyone mentions "Toyota reliability" but fails to realize the communications systems in a Camry are completely different than anything found in a BMW. BMWs use fiber optic bus systems, which are faster, but also more expensive and less reliable. BMW has no issues with engine reliability, it is their electronics. Seeing as how Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the advanced electronics that BMW does, I doubt they will be able to improve reliability...
No problems with engine reliability? I loved my M54 and love my S54 but I'm sure we've all heard of VANOS... And then there was HPFP with the N54. BMW engine reliability issues are few but the amount of money they cost isnt
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      06-29-2012, 11:20 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackE90
Both companies will no doubt benefit from this exchange, win-win. Anyone who thinks Toyota has nothing to offer BMW is fooling themselves
Agreed! Toyota has some legendary sports/race cars, including the Supra and the GT-One LMP. Toyota is not going to use the technology directly from their Camry and Corolla's to design a performance car, people...
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      06-29-2012, 11:27 AM   #33
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LOL at people thinking this negatively affects BMW or cheapens the brand.
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      06-29-2012, 11:29 AM   #34
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The biggest thing that BMW has to gain from this partnership revolves around manufacturing. Toyota's production and logistics systems are second to none. This stuff will improve many facets of their brand that we feel - like reliability, ordering process and ultimately pricing.

We'll hear about the products and new technologies that we will be buying in the press releases and articles, but the big movements at BMW will be behind the scenes. Toyota will get the bigger public image boost.
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      06-29-2012, 11:34 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshab356 View Post
Agreed! Toyota has some legendary sports/race cars, including the Supra and the GT-One LMP. Toyota is not going to use the technology directly from their Camry and Corolla's to design a performance car, people...
They tried designing a GT-One replacement for the 24 hours of le mans with their many years of racing expertise... they didn't make it...

The Legend should have stayed home... its just making a fool out of itself.

The only way i can see them make another legendary sports car is to take the BMW I8 and rebadge it as a Prius R.
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      06-29-2012, 11:43 AM   #36
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Well now that's interesting and not something I would have expected. I do think the BRZ/FRS project between Toyota and Subaru was a great idea that looks to be benefiting them very well. The market was in dire need of a lighter, less complicated, and affordable RWD sports coupe. I wonder where in the automotive spectrum this jointly developed sports car between BMW and Toyota will fit though.
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      06-29-2012, 11:49 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESC OFF View Post
I've seen the concepts and they are really special!

Ugh, those tuner show cars are terrible. I can't believe someone is trying to pass off an Acura Integra as a BMW by grafting on a roundel and the headlights and kidney grills from a 5 series.
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      06-29-2012, 11:56 AM   #38
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First came weight, then too much electronic intervention, then turbos of all things, then the dilution of the M brand, the death of hydraulic steering, and now this. BMW is a shadow of its former self. Is this still the brand we grew up loving?

Two brands that have completely lost their way. Heck, Toyota had to look to SUBARU of all companies to figure out how to build a sporty car. What could they possibly offer each other?
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      06-29-2012, 11:57 AM   #39
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Sounds good to me...
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      06-29-2012, 11:58 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWPower06
Everyone mentions "Toyota reliability" but fails to realize the communications systems in a Camry are completely different than anything found in a BMW. BMWs use fiber optic bus systems, which are faster, but also more expensive and less reliable. BMW has no issues with engine reliability, it is their electronics. Seeing as how Toyota doesn't have anywhere near the advanced electronics that BMW does, I doubt they will be able to improve reliability...
The only fiber optic system they use is MOST which is only media and entertainment and maybe byteflight back on the E65/E66 (I don't remember off hand), but the most of BMWs buses are all just regular wires
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      06-29-2012, 12:02 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmurphy2 View Post
Does seem odd BUT BMW wouldn't do it if Toyota had nothing to offer....

Frankly, I suspect it's Toyota who wouldn't do it if BMW had nothing to offer, and not the other way round. Toyota is a far larger corporation and their high-end arm, Lexus, is no slouch. IMO, it's they that have more to offer BMW than vice versa. That said, for any two corporations to undertake a joint venture such as this, it has to be win-win for both, and they have to function as equals in the area of their jointly pursued undertakings.
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      06-29-2012, 12:02 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scflaw View Post
They tried designing a GT-One replacement for the 24 hours of le mans with their many years of racing expertise... they didn't make it...

The Legend should have stayed home... its just making a fool out of itself.

The only way i can see them make another legendary sports car is to take the BMW I8 and rebadge it as a Prius R.
If you are referring to the recent TS030 LMP1 Hybrid, they both were crashed out and retired. One of the crashes wasn't even the fault of the driver. It was right up the Audi's butt until the accidents happened. Sure the other car had mechanical issues, but it's been 13 years since toyota was in a 24 hr race. You need to give Toyota more credit, they know how to build race cars and great engines. But just like Honda, they choose not to and would rather build econo boxes. I'm looking forward to seeing Toyota unleash their motorsports side on this project.
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      06-29-2012, 12:04 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scflaw View Post
They tried designing a GT-One replacement for the 24 hours of le mans with their many years of racing expertise... they didn't make it...

The Legend should have stayed home... its just making a fool out of itself.

Wat...

The two LMP cars are TOTALLY different, namely the latest TS030 being a hybrid first and foremost... This was a totally new engineering (in conjuction with LMP1 racing) ballgame for Toyota and their first year entering the 24 since the late 90's success behind BMW. Trust me, they will return in strength but like any other returning company it will take some years to perfect.

One of Toyota's TS030 Hybrid cars was taken out by a Ferrari early in the race (awesome crash) and the second was lost to engine failure after mid way in the race, but they by no means made fools of themselves.
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      06-29-2012, 12:05 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaddy808 View Post
...Anything and everything branded with BMW is far from cheap...
No argument there. I have long said:
Why pay less, when you can pay more?
Head on in to the BMW store.
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