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      07-08-2007, 12:36 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by NewhouseEnt View Post
The harshness of the old M3 did not kill sales, it BOOSTED them.
Well, this is hard to argue without supporting data, so I'll have to take your word at face value. As I mentioned earlier, I know a couple folks who got rid of their M3's in favor of something that they could live with as a daily driver - they weren't shy about telling me about it. I know it put me off.

Most M3's are sold as primary cars, not track toys, so everyday livability has to be a factor and that's all I'm saying. The CSL-type character is not for everyone. The automotive press expects nothing but top tier performance when reviewing, but remember, they don't have to live with the car. After a day of beating the crap out of an M3, they hop into a Camry and drive home. Real buyers do have to live with the car - and so performance must be balanced with comfort. If I'm honest, there are days that even ZSP seems harsh over the bumps!

Reviews are one thing, but how many films have you enjoyed watching that were hated by critics? You have to get behind the wheel and see if it suits you. I'll be surprised if anyone on these boards test drives the thing and is disappointed by the all-round performance on offer. I mean, how can 420hp be disappointing??

Oh and finally, if BMW did somehow kill the M3's character and sales are correspondingly low then just wait a year. They will put it right for 2009 and that will be something special indeed.
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      07-08-2007, 04:58 AM   #46
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thats true in the short term.. but in the long term. the hardcore is who evangelises bmw to everyone else. they would be foolish to forget that.
Bingo! This is what I always say. Loose the enthusiast and the poser will leave too.
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      07-08-2007, 05:01 AM   #47
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I'll be surprised if anyone on these boards test drives the thing and is disappointed by the all-round performance on offer. I mean, how can 420hp be disappointing??
Who's going to get the chance to find out what the full 420bhp and cornering ability is like on a test drive? I can't see many being given unaccompanied drives on a product that hot. That means some will be sold on its brilliant everyday ability and be disappointed with it should they buy it and expect ultimate feedback and fun.
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      07-08-2007, 07:17 AM   #48
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Here's hoping lots of people cancel their orders based on heresay.

Hopefully if that happens Ill get mine sooner!

So, I agree, its gonna be crap, anyone in the UK should cancel their orders immediately. Ill even send you a big box of chocolates when you cancel to cheer yourself up.
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      07-08-2007, 10:52 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by The CSL View Post
Who's going to get the chance to find out what the full 420bhp and cornering ability is like on a test drive? I can't see many being given unaccompanied drives on a product that hot. That means some will be sold on its brilliant everyday ability and be disappointed with it should they buy it and expect ultimate feedback and fun.
This speaks to my point. The typical buyer would be put off if they felt battered and exhausted after a test drive. I remember driving my friends lotus Elise (in the UK, where the roads are generally better than here in the US) and coming away feeling like I had been put through a blender. Until then, I dreamed of buying one when they came stateside, after that I lost all interest.
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      07-08-2007, 12:45 PM   #50
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This speaks to my point. The typical buyer would be put off if they felt battered and exhausted after a test drive. I remember driving my friends lotus Elise (in the UK, where the roads are generally better than here in the US) and coming away feeling like I had been put through a blender. Until then, I dreamed of buying one when they came stateside, after that I lost all interest.
Well that's fair enough and I think a lot of conflict on this board is coming against guys who'd sell their wives/girlfriends/mothers etc to have that extra sacrifice that meant when you got out, you know you've worked hard. Being different doesn't mean we're bad for being disappointed in the early reviews, we're just the ones who'd happily be hammered about having spent a large amount of money to buy M's latest product.
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      07-08-2007, 05:26 PM   #51
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Well that's fair enough and I think a lot of conflict on this board is coming against guys who'd sell their wives/girlfriends/mothers etc to have that extra sacrifice that meant when you got out, you know you've worked hard. Being different doesn't mean we're bad for being disappointed in the early reviews, we're just the ones who'd happily be hammered about having spent a large amount of money to buy M's latest product.
I realize that this board is for the enthusiasts and I'm not really trying to criticize anyone either. It's just that I don't get how can we be so upset about early reviews when we've not driven the car? We might not get bragging rights, but I'm pretty sure that a test drive will give you the biggest grin you've ever had from a 3-series. Forget the reviews!

The Top Gear blog put it this way "for the moment, let's just say that the new M3 feels like the people who made it, created it for themselves. And they like to drive. Not helm, or pilot, or control. Not words that seem to indicate a lack of involvement; drive. And that makes it bloody good fun."

http://www.topgear.com/blogs/drives/079-bmw-m3/

It might not get the fastest numbers at the track, but I bet you'll have fun anyway! If you want the ultimate hardcore driving experience you need this instead:

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      07-08-2007, 05:42 PM   #52
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      07-08-2007, 06:20 PM   #53
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For crying out loud, there was even an E46 M3 convertible!!! How is that purist????
a) there was a E30 and E36 M3 convertible too (Wikipedia is friendly, try it).
b) I put my car into a drift coming out of freeway exit ramp traffic circle today. Huge fun. How many M3 coupe owners do that? If that's not "pure" then I don't give a shit what is.
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      07-08-2007, 07:38 PM   #54
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a) there was a E30 and E36 M3 convertible too (Wikipedia is friendly, try it).
b) I put my car into a drift coming out of freeway exit ramp traffic circle today. Huge fun. How many M3 coupe owners do that? If that's not "pure" then I don't give a shit what is.
a) What's your point? I was stating that the M3's appeal is much wider than the just hardcore race driver. A convertible is a lifestyle thing. Cowlshake + added weight = slower track times. But who cares about lap times if the driver is having fun?

Your car must be a blast to drive - do YOU care that it is a little slower than the E46 coupe? I doubt it. If E92 is quick but not quite as sharp as E46 does it matter? No - as long as it's fun!!

b) That's not "pure". On public roads, that's just stupid. Keep it to the race track please.
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      07-08-2007, 10:26 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by NewhouseEnt View Post
I have been chomping at the bit after being tantalized over the lengthy Video clips of the 08 M3.

I love my 335i to the point of sex with it, and thought Jeez, the M3 MUST be twice as nice... Then I read the Edmunds article
(http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=121566?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1 .*[/) and a few other articles, and it sounds like a total bomb. A 100% DUD. I have never owned or driven the older M3, but it seems like every owner has said it was, or is, their favorite sports car in that money range.
I paid $41,500 for my sport 335i. To pay $20k (or higher) for an M that also gets 11mpg? The M is not even getting the same praise as the 335i, which as been 100% positive. These articles about the M3 are like 80% negative....
I don't need to read anymore.
I'll either keep my 335i at the end of next years lease end, or save some money and get a ProCeeded 135i, putting $15-$20 BACK in my pocket and keep up with this new M3 which seems to be a sad piece of sh*t to have an M badge gracing it.

With so much competition on it's doorstep waiting to bitch slap it, if they can, the new M3 seems to have come to that front door with a shabby bathrobe on, and Vaseline already smeared on it's butthole for easy entry...

This is a day and age of lightening fast information delivery. 2-3 articles from reputable magazines have already said it's lacking and not anything overly special, killing a LOT of sales before it is even introduced?! The M3s competition has been begging and hoping for a mistake like this from BMW. The competitions engineers have been working over time to de-throne the King, pleading with the engineering Gods for a mishap from Beemer. Looks like BMW handed it to them on a platter. Idiots. Maybe they should have got out of the 135i hanger and spent a little more time doing their Kingpin flagship a little more justice.

Now they say their are talking about an "Upgraded," meaning more expensive M3 to just get you the M3 you wanted in the first place? What will that cost? $75,000? Porsche and Audi are going to LOVE the new M3. Thanks BMW! Love you too!

Spoken like someone who can't afford an M3.
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      07-08-2007, 10:27 PM   #56
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There are 3 articles right off the bat saying the same thing.

They could have easily had orgasm's in the thing like they did the 335i.

Every article ever written about the 335i says it is the best thing on 4 wheels. One mag even went so far as to say it's was the best all around car one can buy.

In comparison, the M3 gets toasted by 3 different reviews. When you look at it from two grand openings that had completely different results, one has to give SOME cred to the mags....

I am notorious for being dubious about mag tests... but this is a red herring.

I've also seen reviews putting the Infiniti G37 over the 335i. Who gives a shit?
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      07-09-2007, 08:22 AM   #57
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Quote:
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a) What's your point? I was stating that the M3's appeal is much wider than the just hardcore race driver. A convertible is a lifestyle thing. Cowlshake + added weight = slower track times. But who cares about lap times if the driver is having fun?
Fair enough.

My point was, using the existence of a convertible counterpart to a coupe is really not a good way to demostrate the validity (or not) of a car's performance intentions. It sounded like you were saying that the presence of the convertible in the E46 generation represented the car getting softer. Was that not your point? If not, my bad. I am just pointing out that the convertible has been there from the beginning.

A convertible is a lifestyle thing? Sure, ok, true. But so is a coupe. And no less-so than a convertible. There is a performance penalty to be paid with convertible, yes. But there is also a performance penalty to be paid in driving a four seat car meant to be able to haul people vs. a purpose-built lightweight sports car like a corvette.

But I do apologize if I jumped a little hard on you there.

Quote:
b) That's not "pure". On public roads, that's just stupid. Keep it to the race track please.
Thanks for the advice.

But if I am on an exit ramp with absolutely no one - and I do mean _no one_ - around, and no passenger in my car, I am going to get on it as hard as I can. Situations like that are rare, so I take advantage. Two seconds later I came to the stop sign, and pulled out onto the road slowly and casually just like every other driver does. I haven't put the tail out since - no opportunities have arisen. But if they do, I will take them.
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      07-09-2007, 01:04 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Leg View Post
Here's hoping lots of people cancel their orders based on heresay.

Hopefully if that happens Ill get mine sooner!

So, I agree, its gonna be crap, anyone in the UK should cancel their orders immediately. Ill even send you a big box of chocolates when you cancel to cheer yourself up.

LOL....I'm with ya. The funny part though, is that most of those hating on the M3 weren't planning on getting it in the first place.
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      07-09-2007, 01:11 PM   #59
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Wow

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Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
Spoken like someone who can't afford an M3.
Wow... statements like that... whew... where does one begin (or bother?)
Anytime you'd like to see a list of our assets, let me know bud. People who make statements like that are the one's scraping by. I have never once, in my entire life, met anyone succesful that made a statement like that.

I'm not going to waste anymore than the 45 seconds I just have on a
piss-ant Janitor who makes ignorent remarks.
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      07-09-2007, 01:18 PM   #60
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Wow... statements like that... whew... where does one begin (or bother?)
Anytime you'd like to see a list of our assets, let me know bud. People who make statements like that are the one's scraping by. I have never once, in my entire life, met anyone succesful that made a statement like that.

I'm not going to waste anymore than the 45 seconds I just have on a
piss-ant Janitor who makes ignorent remarks.
Yes, I'd be sorry I bought the 335i too.
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      07-09-2007, 01:21 PM   #61
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LOL....I'm with ya. The funny part though, is that most of those hating on the M3 weren't planning on getting it in the first place.
Someone should start a Forum just for this guy. He's way above our level of education. None of us are worthy of breathing the same air...

I want my bandwidth back.
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      07-09-2007, 01:24 PM   #62
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Someone should start a Forum just for this guy. He's way above our level of education. None of us are worthy of breathing the same air...

I want my bandwidth back.
Trollin', trollin', trollin'.
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