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      07-07-2007, 04:44 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by NewhouseEnt View Post
Your right. All the way. But, the M3 is supposed to be leagues ahead of the former M3, and it should paint smiles on the testers face through every facet of the run. It didn't. The test drivers have all driven the old M3 and the newer comp's offerings. They are comparing to those specs.

The 335i out performed expectations, but the 08' M3 Underperformed what it's supposed to deliver.

At least that's what I'm gathering from the tests.
So did the latest 997 GT3, but that doesn't stop it being a great car (I owned a 996 GT3). Maybe as cars become better and better we need to re-adjust our expectations of how big a jump is possible with each evolution.

For those of us who have actually driven it, it does seem strange that we're disappointed that a car is GREAT rather than AMAZING!
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      07-07-2007, 04:46 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewhouseEnt View Post
But, the M3 is supposed to be leagues ahead of the former M3,
Says who?

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Originally Posted by NewhouseEnt View Post
but the 08' M3 Underperformed what it's supposed to deliver.
At least that's what I'm gathering from the tests.
What was it supposed to deliver?
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      07-07-2007, 04:56 PM   #25
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like I said before....I'll be my own judge...& just to be sure I'll go test drive the others...
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      07-07-2007, 05:37 PM   #26
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There was an article in Total 911 magazine that comes to mind about the new gt3, the reviewer was talking about how forum moaners were complaining about this and that how it got soft etc... Before the car was even released.

The reviewer then questioned on how many of those same complainers would ever be in a position to drive, let alone purchase one. IE which are serious buyers or just your typical forum naysayers.

Not far offbat as I see this sorta thing in nearly every new release in the past as well. Human nature at its finest I guess.
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      07-07-2007, 05:49 PM   #27
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Everyone is overreacting. This car will be faster and handle better than the outgoing M3. So what if it doesn't meet the overhyped expectations of a few journo's? They get more hits by being cynical anyway.

Point is the M3 is a fast luxury car. it has been since E36 iteration. Look at the majority of those that buy the thing. Poseurs, mid-life crisis, status symbol chasers that want 'the most expensive one please'. For crying out loud, there was even an E46 M3 convertible!!! How is that purist????

I would guess that save for a few rich kids, the majority of M3 buyers are in the 30-55 age bracket. They don't street race and rarely if ever take it to the track. I, for example, don't want an STi like experience from a bimmer. I want to be escorted rapidly and in comfort. Call me shallow, but I like the kudos of the M badge too. Two people I worked with sold their E46 M3's because they felt that the car was too hard to live with. They got 545's or Boxster's instead. BMW knows this...

Most people don't care that a slightly softer suspension will cost them 0.5 of a second at the track if the payoff is a car you can drive comfortably over potholed streets. Most people want the car to be fun to drive and to make them feel like great drivers.

So if the M3 isn't what you want it to be, don't buy it - take your dollars elsewhere or wait for the CSL. I think you'll find that there will be others quite willing to pay over MSRP in your place.
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      07-07-2007, 05:54 PM   #28
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+4

Quote:
Originally Posted by NewhouseEnt View Post
this new M3 which seems to be a sad piece of sh*t to have an M badge gracing it.
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Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
I think this is the single most stupid thing I have read on this board.
It made me laugh out loud when I read it.
Even thought the OP has some good points elsewhere and in his replies shows he does think this statement is such ridiculous, tabloid, flame bait it just about ruins your credibility in one swoop. Like the other poster said (and you agree) the 335i is an amazing platform to build the M3 from. It deserves all of its praise. M has redesigned most of the car, thrown an engine worthy of an F-car in it (have you seen that the M3 beats the F360 0-1000m yet?? and according to some sources will beat it around the Ring as well, besting an 8:09?) and will price it (probably) less than $60k USD. Your standards for an M badge are absurd.

I am very disappointed about the bad press as well. No one wants their dream smashed but we need to wait for full reviews and full performance specs before getting our panties all in a wad and going out and buying C63s.
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      07-07-2007, 05:59 PM   #29
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Very well said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripster View Post
Everyone is overreacting. This car will be faster and handle better than the outgoing M3. So what if it doesn't meet the overhyped expectations of a few journo's? They get more hits by being cynical anyway.

Point is the M3 is a fast luxury car. it has been since E36 iteration. Look at the majority of those that buy the thing. Poseurs, mid-life crisis, status symbol chasers that want 'the most expensive one please'. For crying out loud, there was even an E46 M3 convertible!!! How is that purist????

I would guess that save for a few rich kids, the majority of M3 buyers are in the 30-55 age bracket. They don't street race and rarely if ever take it to the track. I, for example, don't want an STi like experience from a bimmer. I want to be escorted rapidly and in comfort. Call me shallow, but I like the kudos of the M badge too. Two people I worked with sold their E46 M3's because they felt that the car was too hard to live with. They got 545's or Boxster's instead. BMW knows this...

Most people don't care that a slightly softer suspension will cost them 0.5 of a second at the track if the payoff is a car you can drive comfortably over potholed streets. Most people want the car to be fun to drive and to make them feel like great drivers.

So if the M3 isn't what you want it to be, don't buy it - take your dollars elsewhere or wait for the CSL. I think you'll find that there will be others quite willing to pay over MSRP in your place.
Since the E36 the M3 has been about compromise and BMW always executes a phenomenal compromise IMO. This has been discussed extensively here on this board already. Nice post.

Just on a personal note: I am so done with my fully aftermarket E36 M3 bone rattling go-cart suspension. Does that mean I won't occasionally track my new car, no, I absolutely will, I'm just a but older, less tolerant and moving along the line of compromise. EDC here I come!
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      07-07-2007, 06:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Since the E36 the M3 has been about compromise and BMW always executes a phenomenal compromise IMO. This has been discussed extensively here on this board already. Nice post.

Just on a personal note: I am so done with my fully aftermarket E36 M3 bone rattling go-cart suspension. Does that mean I won't occasionally track my new car, no, I absolutely will, I'm just a but older, less tolerant and moving along the line of compromise. EDC here I come!
I wonder if the non EDC suspension will have a bone crushing ride, some middle ground or similar to the 335i.
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      07-07-2007, 06:10 PM   #31
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it is said to be between normal & sport....
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      07-07-2007, 06:15 PM   #32
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No, they went there to test drive M's latest and greatest car and they didn't find that, did they. What they got was a car compromised to gain more sales and that can't be denied.
Yes, they did! Almost every review I've read concludes that the new M3 is a solid car and would be worth owning despite stating that it did not exactly meet their expectation. Those are two different statements, and you are getting them mixed up. Just because they were left with wanting more does not mean that they are not recommending the car, or that the new M3 is not "M's latest and greatest." What other M product is out there that you think is "better" than the new M3?
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      07-07-2007, 06:25 PM   #33
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i also hear the 2012 3-series is going to be horrible. that's it, i'm done with the 2012 3-series, i'm keeping my E90!
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      07-07-2007, 06:43 PM   #34
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Quote:
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like I said before....I'll be my own judge...& just to be sure I'll go test drive the others...
yup. i'm on waitlist of the new m3 but have driven rs-4 and cayman s so far. rs-4 is a bit too heavy for my liking but the cayman s was an absolute blast.. so the new m3 had better impress..
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      07-07-2007, 06:47 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripster View Post
Everyone is overreacting. This car will be faster and handle better than the outgoing M3. So what if it doesn't meet the overhyped expectations of a few journo's? They get more hits by being cynical anyway.

Point is the M3 is a fast luxury car. it has been since E36 iteration. Look at the majority of those that buy the thing. Poseurs, mid-life crisis, status symbol chasers that want 'the most expensive one please'. For crying out loud, there was even an E46 M3 convertible!!! How is that purist????

I would guess that save for a few rich kids, the majority of M3 buyers are in the 30-55 age bracket. They don't street race and rarely if ever take it to the track. I, for example, don't want an STi like experience from a bimmer. I want to be escorted rapidly and in comfort. Call me shallow, but I like the kudos of the M badge too. Two people I worked with sold their E46 M3's because they felt that the car was too hard to live with. They got 545's or Boxster's instead. BMW knows this...

Most people don't care that a slightly softer suspension will cost them 0.5 of a second at the track if the payoff is a car you can drive comfortably over potholed streets. Most people want the car to be fun to drive and to make them feel like great drivers.

So if the M3 isn't what you want it to be, don't buy it - take your dollars elsewhere or wait for the CSL. I think you'll find that there will be others quite willing to pay over MSRP in your place.
if your right. this seems to indicate that bmw (m division) is moving away from its core audience of performance enthusiasts and trying to go mainstream. in which case, I dont see why i should pay the premium for an m-car. i'm not the type to pay 15-20k more for a badge. i dont street race but i do track my cars. if i only cared about getting from pt a -b in comfort i'd buy a lexus wouldnt i?
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      07-07-2007, 06:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I am so done with my fully aftermarket E36 M3 bone rattling go-cart suspension.
i love bone rattling go-kart suspensions!! one bonus is that i get to play autox on nj/ny's sorry excuse for highways
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      07-07-2007, 07:43 PM   #37
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My point is....

;

Last edited by NewhouseEnt; 11-20-2007 at 04:03 PM. Reason: edit
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      07-07-2007, 09:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
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if your right. this seems to indicate that bmw (m division) is moving away from its core audience of performance enthusiasts and trying to go mainstream. in which case, I dont see why i should pay the premium for an m-car. i'm not the type to pay 15-20k more for a badge. i dont street race but i do track my cars. if i only cared about getting from pt a -b in comfort i'd buy a lexus wouldnt i?
As a business, it is what I would do. BMW absolutely has to do what it takes to push sales and if that means a slightly less hardcore approach, then so be it. It's all about the bottom line, so if that means losing a few customers that want total peformance out of the box and without mods, then so be it. The purpose of the company is to sell cars. Even Porsche has an SUV, I mean wtf?? How does that cater to their performance enthusiast fans?

Still, let's get a grip here - the M3 will be more capable than 99% of those that buy it will EVER exploit. The real challenge for BMW will be marketing against a background of negative press if the current trend continues. But don't let that fool you into thinking that this will be anything less than one hell of a car.
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      07-07-2007, 09:55 PM   #39
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As a business, it is what I would do. BMW absolutely has to do what it takes to push sales and if that means a slightly less hardcore approach, then so be it.
thats true in the short term.. but in the long term. the hardcore is who evangelises bmw to everyone else. they would be foolish to forget that.
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      07-07-2007, 09:55 PM   #40
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i also hear the 2012 3-series is going to be horrible. that's it, i'm done with the 2012 3-series, i'm keeping my E90!


Lets just wait and see...then drive the M ourselves..problem solved.
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      07-07-2007, 11:00 PM   #41
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;

Last edited by NewhouseEnt; 11-20-2007 at 04:03 PM. Reason: edit
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      07-07-2007, 11:09 PM   #42
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I totally see where 'NewhouseEnt' is coming from...first impressions are everything and so far its not looking good. Let's remember our own personal first impressions for test drives still have to wait until next year (state side) thats a long time to wonder if all the negative press is really true.
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      07-07-2007, 11:16 PM   #43
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...Maybe every mullet head Grand-mammy will rush out and buy the new "softer" nicer, gentler M3.
"That there's funny, I don't care who ye' R..."
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      07-07-2007, 11:21 PM   #44
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So did the latest 997 GT3, but that doesn't stop it being a great car (I owned a 996 GT3). Maybe as cars become better and better we need to re-adjust our expectations of how big a jump is possible with each evolution.

For those of us who have actually driven it, it does seem strange that we're disappointed that a car is GREAT rather than AMAZING!
Yup the 997 GT3 is only very slightly faster than the 996 GT3 and people are crazy about it (including me). It's the feel and not just the sheer speed.

Been driving the 335i for 2months, and it did not excite my nerves as much as many reviews have said. To me it is no more than a slightly higher powered Bimmer GT car, it's one of the heaviest 3 series ever made and bimmer did not hide the extra heft when trying to drive it enthusiastically. I am still eagerly waiting for the E92 M3.
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