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      06-21-2012, 03:11 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by erm324 View Post
The new M5 is nowhere near Z06 quick. Bottom line.
Your in denial bro
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      06-21-2012, 03:48 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Nine View Post
Sorry, it's just a variable that makes these comparisons difficult. Who knows how well or at which rpm the z06 driver is shifting at. I'm sure I could look up trap speeds for both cars, if they are close, yes it is impressive, but then again is it really that impressive. I would have to imagine that for performance luxury the panamera is the bench mark, I'm sure the M5 is good, it just needs to be raced against it's peers.
You can always compare horsepower.
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      06-21-2012, 05:58 AM   #25
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The Z06 has a clearly superior power to weight but the DCT does add quite some real effective hp to the M5 from a performance perspective. We have seen the exact same effect in the M3 DCT vs. MT. In a stock M3 the DCT is probably good for 20-50 effective hp depending on the contest (much discussion and validation on this if you do not believe it right here on this forum). Also the German Sport Auto magazine found the two cars nearly neck to neck in a drag race. I think the video is reasonable.
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      06-23-2012, 09:17 PM   #26
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A good driver in the z06 and it will stomp the m5.
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      06-23-2012, 11:36 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335 View Post
A good driver in the z06 and it will stomp the m5.
And a good driver in the M5 and it will stomp the Z06!
Thats not much of an argument dude, try again
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      06-23-2012, 11:57 PM   #28
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      06-24-2012, 12:03 AM   #29
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It's funny. I see some of you impressed with the Z06 (as was I) and a bunch of others simply making excuses for it. You would all make great lawyers because apparently video lies. lol

Pumping the sound of a V8 through the speakers is still lame though.
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      06-24-2012, 01:01 AM   #30
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Pumping the sound of a V8 through the speakers is still lame though.
Absolutely. BMW blew it pretty bad on this point. It does not matter if it is real engine sounds, synthesized ones, intake sound or not. Whatever they've done is completely lame...
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      06-25-2012, 10:45 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiavelM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemw335 View Post
A good driver in the z06 and it will stomp the m5.
And a good driver in the M5 and it will stomp the Z06!
Thats not much of an argument dude, try again
Maybe I'm missing something, but how hard is it to push the pedal to the floor and drive in a straight line from a rolling start with a DCT car?
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      06-25-2012, 11:04 PM   #32
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Maybe I'm missing something, but how hard is it to push the pedal to the floor and drive in a straight line from a rolling start with a DCT car?
I am not sure if the F10 M5 had the DSC disabled. That is an absolute must. If you simply put pedal to the metal with DSC On, the sheer amount of torque would render the power useless and light up the dash with the DSC light. Even with MDM, u still can't deploy the full power. DSC Off is a must in any drag race for the new M5.
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      06-26-2012, 12:08 AM   #33
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The Z06 driver could definitely have shifted better, but it wouldn't have made too much of a difference. Remember, the Z06 only makes 505 crank, while the F10 is supposed to make (at least) 560. From a 50kph roll, torque and power-to-weight make a substantially smaller difference.
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      06-26-2012, 12:15 AM   #34
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Quote:
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From a 50kph roll, torque and power-to-weight make a substantially smaller difference.
That is incorrect. At any given speed (all speeds...) power to weight determines acceleration. The car that makes more power to weight will accelerate harder. There are some minor corrections to this for losses, gear inertia, etc. but power to weight it all that matters. As stated prior in a battle involving a wide range of speeds and shifts shift time is also a very significant factor. Torque is mostly meaningless. This topic has been discussed and debated time and time again here on the forum and the conclusion is always the same.
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      06-26-2012, 12:26 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
That is incorrect. At any given speed (all speeds...) power to weight determines acceleration. The car that makes more power to weight will accelerate harder. There are some minor corrections to this for losses, gear inertia, etc. but power to weight it all that matters. As stated prior in a battle involving a wide range of speeds and shifts shift time is also a very significant factor. Torque is mostly meaningless. This topic has been discussed and debated time and time again here on the forum and the conclusion is always the same.
I just meant that power-to-weight makes less of a difference at a higher speed than it does from a lower speed or a dig. And the lower speeds and digs are also where torque becomes a factor. I may have worded it poorly
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      06-26-2012, 01:31 AM   #36
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Quote:
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I just meant that power-to-weight makes less of a difference at a higher speed than it does from a lower speed or a dig. And the lower speeds and digs are also where torque becomes a factor. I may have worded it poorly
Gotcha. Keep in mind that power to weight still matters when accelerating at high speeds, it is just that ultimate top speed is purely limited by power and drag but not weight. Torque at the crank is also a meaningless quantity. Gear ratio must be involved to make a physically meaningful quantity. I think part of the reason folks believe torque matters at low speeds is sort of an artifact. The power can be higher at lower rpms at and right after launch in a typical high torque low power engine (say Vette vs. M3). Either way its still actually about power to weight . Cheers.
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      06-26-2012, 03:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
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Either way its still actually about power to weight
True that!
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      06-26-2012, 04:24 PM   #38
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Dat V10.

I will ALWAYS prefer the E60 because of the glorious S85. Don't care how fast the F10 is.
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      06-26-2012, 05:40 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erm324 View Post
The new M5 is nowhere near Z06 quick. Bottom line.
Agreed, a properly driven C6 Z06, should outrun a stock F10 M5.
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      06-27-2012, 07:37 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onurleft View Post
It's trapped 123 on the factor tires, it's in the same damn neighborhood actually.

However, this guy in the video cannot shift better than average
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Originally Posted by KKM3 View Post
Your in denial bro
Really? Well your delusional for thinking so. Its nowhere in the same neighborhood because I've seen stock Z06's trap 129-130 at atco, there is a huge disparity between the performance of both cars ESPECIALLY in a straight line. The performance of a Z06 is heavily driver dependant - find a guy who can bang through the gears on that car the right way and not granny shift and the M5 will be lagging far far behind.
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      06-27-2012, 07:41 AM   #41
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Dat V10.

I will ALWAYS prefer the E60 because of the glorious S85. Don't care how fast the F10 is.
+1
Not a fan of the new M5 either, just the sound of the V10 in the E60 was enough to make that car the obvious choice for me, rather have a high revving V10 that screams than a muted V8TT.
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      06-27-2012, 08:24 AM   #42
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Power-to-weight isn't always an advantage. It's the tune. What about high-performance boats like the Cayenne Turbo S or Panamera Turbos?
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      06-27-2012, 03:00 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Power-to-weight isn't always an advantage. It's the tune. What about high-performance boats like the Cayenne Turbo S or Panamera Turbos?
Power to weight actually is always an advantage. On the other hand, torque is pretty much always good too, so if two cars have similar power to weight, but one of them has a significant torque advantage, that car will likely win a drag race. Think average C63 vs average M3.

Otherwise, as it said in a "Murphy's Law" poster on my office wall:

"The battle may not always go to the strong, nor the race to the swift -

- but that's the way to bet."


Horsepower wins races.

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Edit: PS - In this case the lightning shifts in the M5 are contrasted with what seems to be painfully slow shifting by the Z06 pilot, allowing the M5 to hold its own or even pull on the Vette.

Last edited by bruce.augenstein@comcast.; 06-27-2012 at 03:31 PM.
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      06-27-2012, 03:46 PM   #44
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Power-to-weight isn't always an advantage. It's the tune. What about high-performance boats like the Cayenne Turbo S or Panamera Turbos?
I don't understand this? It's the tune? Meaning if they're tuned or not? Well either way, those cars you mentioned weigh a ton, but also have a ton of power. Their power to weights are similar to many high performance cars.

And for the rest of the conversation, horsepower and torque are the SAME THING. They are just different words for force. HP= torque x rpm/5250. You can have horsepower by having more torque ie: c63's or by rpm's ie: Honda motors, but at the end of the day it's all just force.
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