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      07-06-2007, 12:28 AM   #23
Hans Delbruck
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Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
3. Special tires designed to understeer. LMAO. Who the heck would design and show case tires for an icon of a performance car DESIGNED to understeer. Need a big fact check here!

Yeah, that's nuts. How can that be? Did Steved get this same info?
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      07-06-2007, 12:58 AM   #24
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This is not good. I dont like what the M3 has become.
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      07-06-2007, 01:34 AM   #25
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This is not good. I dont like what the M3 has become.
So don't get one.
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      07-06-2007, 02:28 AM   #26
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So don't get one.
no need to be rude! I'v been liking BMW for 15 years and this is the first time Im disappointed with a M. The M3 has gone soft according to CAR Not something I want to hear as a BMW fan.
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      07-06-2007, 02:40 AM   #27
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I'm not being rude. Just telling it how it is. More than once you've said you don't like it. So don't get it. It's that simple. I'm not going to let Car magazine tell me if I like the car or not. I plan on waiting to see it in person and actually drive it before I make some knee-jerk decision.
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      07-06-2007, 03:04 AM   #28
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This 1st press drive report from Car Magazine does not concern me in the slightest. We have all been lucky enough to have a few snippets from SteveD in the last few days and that has given me confidence that I am buying the right car.

Everyone has different needs, but to me an M3 should be the ultimate all-rounder - great on both road and track. Not as focused as a GT3 or CSL - if it was then BMW would not sell them in such numbers - there is a reason only 500CSLs were built.

If an M3 sounds, handles and drives like SteveD has suggested it will then it will be awesome. For me the looks are a vast improvement over the outgoing model - just more in line with today's look and the interior is light years ahead (the E46 reminded me of my old E34 535i) - and to me is just the right step forward.

I'm fortunate enough to have a race prepared Impreza for the track, which would make a GT3RS seem like luxury, so the M3 will be a brilliant every day drive for me. Plus in Alpine White with anthracite 19's it will look the dogs danglies
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      07-06-2007, 03:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by M3onTwomps View Post
I'm not being rude. Just telling it how it is. More than once you've said you don't like it. So don't get it. It's that simple. I'm not going to let Car magazine tell me if I like the car or not. I plan on waiting to see it in person and actually drive it before I make some knee-jerk decision.
of course its more important what I feel about the car but driving reports are important too since thats what we only have. I have always loved M's but so far this car isnt rocking my world. Hearing in CAR that M5 has better steering worries me, should be the other way around imo.

Im still hoping and waiting for better reviews. Sportauto supertest is going to be crucial to me.
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      07-06-2007, 03:53 AM   #30
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Don't be blinkered guys - two reviews say it's just not what we where after - if your not after a true drivers car, you wouldn't be on this site. I seriously think a 911 is now the way to go - who wants a dynamically comprimised M3 that's gonna make up 13% of sales - not me!
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      07-06-2007, 04:07 AM   #31
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Longer clip now posted
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/
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      07-06-2007, 04:09 AM   #32
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So not only the M3 has gone soft... There will also be an absolute load of them on the street. What a bummer!!! Maybe the 1 series M car can recapture the magic.
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      07-06-2007, 06:21 AM   #33
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That's only one man's perception of the E92 M3. Now if report after report come out sounding like this, I may be in the market for something else. Who the F*** is Ben Barry anyways!! No worries fellas...soon we'll know alot more!!
Assistant editor of Car magazine, a member on here, and somebody in a position to be at the press launch and drive the car.
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      07-06-2007, 06:23 AM   #34
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Pretty crappy article, from a lack of thought, emotion and excitement about the car as well as factually. The last point brings much of the authors opinions in to question IMO.

1. An SMG to come. Get with the program man, it'll be an M-DCT and likely an amazing optional tranny.
2. The 6MT is right out of the E46? Wrong. I've heard claims that is was designed from the ground up for the M3, because the peak torques are the same and the ratios identical my strong suspicion is that it uses the 335i box.
3. Special tires designed to understeer. LMAO. Who the heck would design and show case tires for an icon of a performance car DESIGNED to understeer. Need a big fact check here!
4. The comments about understeer and sort of numb and comfortable handling overall are in direct contrast with Steved's report.
5. Sound, yeah what JEllis said. From what we have heard and what has been reported by Steved this thing is going to sound killer. Author - get a clue.

I know it is a bit depressing of an article but take it with a grain of salt. I'd bet glowing, exciting and heck even factually correct articles are right around the corner.

Why don't you send him a PM and tell him what you think of his article if you don't like what he's written. Somehow I don't think he'll give a toss.
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      07-06-2007, 06:54 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terryb View Post

If an M3 sounds, handles and drives like SteveD has suggested it will then it will be awesome. For me the looks are a vast improvement over the outgoing model - just more in line with today's look and the interior is light years ahead (the E46 reminded me of my old E34 535i) - and to me is just the right step forward.
Ok, time out guys. I need to put some of these comments in context. The new M3 is a great car. It hasn't gone soft. What a strange comment to make for a car that is 'more' hardcore than the E46 version it replaces. The RS4 feels soft compared to the M3, and if anything we were wondering if BMW had lost too much of the E46's refinement.

The engine is both louder and much more serious sounding than the S54 straight six. Handling is very balanced, now if that makes it 'refined' then so be it, but that's not how I would describe it. Do you really want an 'edgy' handling 420hp Coupe? No, I didn't think so.

The steering is fine and would probably be sharper with lower profile tyres, but the front is not soft. I am looking at the videos we took and under severe provocation there is no understeer and the car remains flat and very stable when held sideways. It's a fluid handling entertainer that can be finely adjusted in a corner and will be controllable by a wide range of driver talent - not just the racers amongst us.

There is also 'not' a need to drive it high up the rev range. Certainly when all the 'sport/sport plus' settings are engaged then it feels powerful at lower revs - we exited most of the tight hairpins on those spanish roads in no lower than 3rd gear. But despite being more torquey than the E46, it also pulls harder to the red line.

I am a CSL owner and I find the E92 M3 far, far better than the E46 M3 and more sporting as well (I owned 3 E46 M3s). BMW do not 'need' to make a CSL, but they will because they can.
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      07-06-2007, 07:06 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
Ok, time out guys. I need to put some of these comments in context. The new M3 is a great car. It hasn't gone soft. What a strange comment to make for a car that is 'more' hardcore than the E46 version it replaces. The RS4 feels soft compared to the M3, and if anything we were wondering if BMW had lost too much of the E46's refinement.

The engine is both louder and much more serious sounding than the S54 straight six. Handling is very balanced, now if that makes it 'refined' then so be it, but that's not how I would describe it. Do you really want an 'edgy' handling 420hp Coupe? No, I didn't think so.

The steering is fine and would probably be sharper with lower profile tyres, but the front is not soft. I am looking at the videos we took and under severe provocation there is no understeer and the car remains flat and very stable when held sideways. It's a fluid handling entertainer that can be finely adjusted in a corner and will be controllable by a wide range of driver talent - not just the racers amongst us.

There is also 'not' a need to drive it high up the rev range. Certainly when all the 'sport/sport plus' settings are engaged then it feels powerful at lower revs - we exited most of the tight hairpins on those spanish roads in no lower than 3rd gear. But despite being more torquey than the E46, it also pulls harder to the red line.

I am a CSL owner and I find the E92 M3 far, far better than the E46 M3 and more sporting as well (I owned 3 E46 M3s). BMW do not 'need' to make a CSL, but they will because they can.
Thanks for the clarification, Steve. Out of interest, were you party to the comments made by Michelin re. the "understeering tyres" - I'm not an expert, but the idea sounds rather fanciful to me...

Cheers,
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      07-06-2007, 07:13 AM   #37
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Thanks for the clarification, Steve. Out of interest, were you party to the comments made by Michelin re. the "understeering tyres" - I'm not an expert, but the idea sounds rather fanciful to me...

Cheers,

It is true that Michelin designed the PS2's especially for the car, but they did not understeer.

We were comparing the M3 with an RS4 back-to-back and those spanish roads were dangerously slippery being covered with a fine crystalline dust particularly lower down the mountains. But the RS4 (running on PS2s also) struggled more with grip than the M3, whereas when I had driven it down to Marbella over the previous 2000 miles or so it had loads of grip.

It's a shame such comments are gaining ground, because they are very misleading unless you understand the context (i.e. the roads we were driving on).
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      07-06-2007, 07:20 AM   #38
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Longer clip now posted
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/
Love that sound!
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      07-06-2007, 07:29 AM   #39
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Thanks for the article.

And my 2 cents? its one magazine review and I dont know about the rest of you, but I dont buy anything on the word of anyone person or magazine review. It has to pass my own test
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      07-06-2007, 07:34 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackHollywood View Post
as they state, this is a volume car , not for purists
doesn't matter. car mags test just about any kind of car on the track extensively to get the real insights into how things behave when pushed to the limit. these people could not have gotten any kind of insight into the M3 by doing single laps without instrumentation and so on. with time, we will see more informative reviews.
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      07-06-2007, 07:42 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steved View Post
It is true that Michelin designed the PS2's especially for the car, but they did not understeer.

We were comparing the M3 with an RS4 back-to-back and those spanish roads were dangerously slippery being covered with a fine crystalline dust particularly lower down the mountains. But the RS4 (running on PS2s also) struggled more with grip than the M3, whereas when I had driven it down to Marbella over the previous 2000 miles or so it had loads of grip.

It's a shame such comments are gaining ground, because they are very misleading unless you understand the context (i.e. the roads we were driving on).
Understood. Glad to hear you side.
I think people on this board might be more inclined to follow your review over the others.
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      07-06-2007, 07:59 AM   #42
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Quote:
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It's a shame such comments are gaining ground, because they are very misleading unless you understand the context (i.e. the roads we were driving on).
Certainly the descriptions we've had have not been put into context well - i.e. 6/10 on an undefined scale for steering.

I was wondering whether it would be fair to say that the media guys were a bit miffed with what BMW offered them. It doesn't sound like you were given a full-blown opportunity to test the car - more like a way for BMW to get photos on the covers of all the mags. Is this coming through between the lines of some of the articles, perhaps?
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      07-06-2007, 08:52 AM   #43
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Assistant editor of Car magazine, a member on here, and somebody in a position to be at the press launch and drive the car.
Which means what? He's the "assistant editor"...Does that make him an F1 driver? It was a poorly written article and it has not swayed my decision to buy an M3 one bit.
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      07-06-2007, 10:09 AM   #44
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Guess I might be in the minority but reading that article makes me want the new M3 even more. Having lived with my E46 as a daily driver for the past 4 years, I have no illusions about what the car is or is not. Plenty of "purists" dogged that car when it came out as well. Its a great car, and I am confident the E92 will be as well.

Can't wait to test drive one.
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