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      03-24-2014, 07:57 PM   #1
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Question 6MT Drivers: Gas pedal Foot positioning/angle

Serious question here...

I say 6mt drivers because there truly is an art to being a great manual driver. Seating position and foot position all play a major role in achieving successful heel/toe's, rev-matches, and advanced driving in general.

Point of this thread, is to find out what the best or "correct" position/angle to keep foot on the gas pedal is.

I generally will keep foot at 2 oclock position, apply pressure with more or less my whole foot. This doesn't allow much leverage on the pedal, as the foot is never really planted. HOWEVER, today I noticed something potentially eye opening! Changed foot to a 12 oclock position and started using just the ball of my foot. By doing this, I was able to back my foot up, plant my heel and get leverage on the pedal! Immense difference in pedal feel, couldn't believe it. I imagine this will allow for better heel-toe's as it is pretty challenging to execute with no leverage.

Pro, advanced, weekend warriors - please chime in! Is there a "correct" foot to pedal position? Interested to know if I'm on to something here.
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      03-24-2014, 08:10 PM   #2
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Not only are you on to something, you've cracked the code brotha! The previously kept secret is that every F1 world champ since Fangio is a 12 o'clocker. Ok, sorry...

Really, I think it's personal preference and there would be no objective advantage either way. 2 o'clock probably describes where I am most the time. I don't see an advantage when it comes to heel-toe since for that you're moving over to the brake pedal from throttle position (whatever the angle), then back to throttle with the side of your foot for the blip. In other words, whatever your angle of attack when on throttle that's disrupted for heel-toe. If anything I guess I'd say that the 2 o'clock position with your heel slightly between gas and brake allows for quicker transitions between the two.

Auberlen seems to be at 2 o'clock often.

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      03-24-2014, 08:39 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exclusivs View Post
... I say 6mt drivers because there truly is an art to being a great manual driver...
Indeed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Exclusivs View Post
... Seating position and foot position all play a major role in achieving successful heel/toe's, rev-matches, and advanced driving in general...
Speaking of great manual driver, don't forget left-foot braking despite 3 pedals.
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      03-24-2014, 09:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Auberlen seems to be at 2 o'clock often.
Notice how they run a wide brake pedal so it is easier to heel-toe (off an older model BMW automatic?)

Cool video.
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      03-24-2014, 09:36 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic311 View Post
Notice how they run a wide brake pedal so it is easier to heel-toe (off an older model BMW automatic?)

Cool video.
Good catch. Looks like almost no gap between the two.
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      03-25-2014, 07:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exclusivs View Post
Changed foot to a 12 oclock position and started using just the ball of my foot. By doing this, I was able to back my foot up, plant my heel and get leverage on the pedal! Immense difference in pedal feel, couldn't believe it. I imagine this will allow for better heel-toe's as it is pretty challenging to execute with no leverage.

Pro, advanced, weekend warriors - please chime in! Is there a "correct" foot to pedal position? Interested to know if I'm on to something here.
I'm about midway through the learning process on this myself. More than one early-morning Saturday session on the local protected clover-leaf working on my technique for an hour or so. Last weekend an FCPS cruiser parked off to the side and checked out the situation for 15 minutes, but they must know the deal because they didn't pull me over to investigate.

I think the answer is: whatever gets the job done without having to concentrate on it, because you usually need to be looking for the apex and braking to it, not thinking about the shift. I have one super-fast instructor who brakes with the big toe and blips with the right side of his foot without moving his heel. Yes, you must back your heel up and get your knee higher to get good brake feel, as you have discovered. I have another really fast instructor that brakes with the ball and moves his heel over to blip, and he's so fast he double-clutches, so he blips twice.
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      03-25-2014, 09:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Not only are you on to something, you've cracked the code brotha! The previously kept secret is that every F1 world champ since Fangio is a 12 o'clocker. Ok, sorry...

Really, I think it's personal preference and there would be no objective advantage either way. 2 o'clock probably describes where I am most the time. I don't see an advantage when it comes to heel-toe since for that you're moving over to the brake pedal from throttle position (whatever the angle), then back to throttle with the side of your foot for the blip. In other words, whatever your angle of attack when on throttle that's disrupted for heel-toe. If anything I guess I'd say that the 2 o'clock position with your heel slightly between gas and brake allows for quicker transitions between the two.

Auberlen seems to be at 2 o'clock often.

great video thank you for sharing!!!!!!!
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      03-25-2014, 10:57 AM   #8
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So many factors definitely affect it, not just foot position. Foot size, foot anatomy, pedal position (many alter it to make it work e.g. As with Bill Auberlen in that turner video), seating position (Auberlen's leg looks almost fully stretched ), braking distance. Drone a spec miata earlier and realize that throttle was so damn close it was easy as hell to blip). I believe whatever works for as long as the result is perfect. Basic concept still same. 6ft3 vs 5ft1 driver, sure foot position might be a little different.
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      03-25-2014, 01:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnaflux View Post
An interactive image is worth a thousand words

That is a great graphic!
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      03-25-2014, 01:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exclusivs View Post
Serious question here...

I say 6mt drivers because there truly is an art to being a great manual driver. Seating position and foot position all play a major role in achieving successful heel/toe's, rev-matches, and advanced driving in general.

Point of this thread, is to find out what the best or "correct" position/angle to keep foot on the gas pedal is.

I generally will keep foot at 2 oclock position, apply pressure with more or less my whole foot. This doesn't allow much leverage on the pedal, as the foot is never really planted. HOWEVER, today I noticed something potentially eye opening! Changed foot to a 12 oclock position and started using just the ball of my foot. By doing this, I was able to back my foot up, plant my heel and get leverage on the pedal! Immense difference in pedal feel, couldn't believe it. I imagine this will allow for better heel-toe's as it is pretty challenging to execute with no leverage.

Pro, advanced, weekend warriors - please chime in! Is there a "correct" foot to pedal position? Interested to know if I'm on to something here.
I track and yes I keep my foot at "12 oclock" on the gas pedal with my heel on the pedal as well. I sit close enough that my knees are slightly bent and upon full leg extension I can completely depress full range either the clutch, brake or gas pedal. I have noticed even on take offs this helps me have constant even pressure and not jerk the car with too much or little gas when taking off.
I'm so used to this that whenever I daily my M I drive like a dork lol (no more leaning the seat back) becuase it feels better and helps me practice.
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      03-25-2014, 05:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebringjetta View Post
great video thank you for sharing!!!!!!!
Cool, borrowed it from here http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=957676
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      03-25-2014, 11:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormulaMMM View Post
Definitely an area I need to work on and the video helps a lot
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      03-27-2014, 12:19 AM   #13
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Will be honest, the 12oclock foot position feels a unnatural to me after all...

I think the key here, is actually more so seating position then foot angle. After studying Bill Auberlens video, I moved back in my seat and I found a good distance where my leg almost fully extends pressing clutch but not quite.

I see this thread has changed direction, gravitating towards heel-toe techniques. All driver preference I know, and am in the midst of finding my preferred method.
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      03-27-2014, 07:24 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exclusivs View Post
Will be honest, the 12oclock foot position feels a unnatural to me after all...

I think the key here, is actually more so seating position then foot angle. After studying Bill Auberlens video, I moved back in my seat and I found a good distance where my leg almost fully extends pressing clutch but not quite.

I see this thread has changed direction, gravitating towards heel-toe techniques. All driver preference I know, and am in the midst of finding my preferred method.
If you are now looking into heel/toe, best asset hands down is the the Rennline Heel/Toe extention kit.
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      03-27-2014, 07:34 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dapopa9 View Post
That is a great graphic!
except it forgets to apply clutch for up-shifts lol
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      03-27-2014, 10:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@AUTOcouture View Post
except it forgets to apply clutch for up-shifts lol
Nah, the upshifts are just that fast... but he takes his time on blipping for heel toe lol.
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      03-28-2014, 10:02 AM   #17
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Another factor to consider is not only the width of the brake pedal but the DEPTH. When on say 50% braking you'd like the brake pedal to depress to roughly the dame depth as the gas pedal so its an easy lateral roll with the right foot. I test drove a couple of Porsches last year (997 & Cayman S) and found it harder to heal-toe because of the brake pedal height. I read somewhere that this is adjustable, not sure if you can in M3.
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      03-28-2014, 05:53 PM   #18
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I have found that with the brake pedal position relatively higher than the gas pedal position, pivoting my foot from left to right works the best. I am a somewhat tall driver (6'4") and so I don't have the leverage nor angle to literally heel toe with my 'heel' and 'toe.' I basically lean into the brake with the left ball of my left foot and when I rev match I just rotate the right half of my foot to blip the throttle. The LWFW definitely helps with the transition. I have noticed most BMWs have higher seating positions so us tall dudes really gotta practice an unconventional style of heal-toe. It works very well though!

-Mike
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      03-28-2014, 09:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hgmotorsports View Post
I have found that with the brake pedal position relatively higher than the gas pedal position, pivoting my foot from left to right works the best. I am a somewhat tall driver (6'4") and so I don't have the leverage nor angle to literally heel toe with my 'heel' and 'toe.' I basically lean into the brake with the left ball of my left foot and when I rev match I just rotate the right half of my foot to blip the throttle. The LWFW definitely helps with the transition. I have noticed most BMWs have higher seating positions so us tall dudes really gotta practice an unconventional style of heal-toe. It works very well though!

-Mike
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      03-28-2014, 10:49 PM   #20
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I like to wear a lightweight running shoe with a wider toe box. I just brake the the left half of my foot and blip the throttle by rolling my ankle and touching the gas pedal with the outside of the foot.

You can do it if you have wider feet...and you know what they say about guys with wide feet?
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      03-28-2014, 10:52 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I like to wear a lightweight running shoe with a wider toe box. I just brake the the left half of my foot and blip the throttle by rolling my ankle and touching the gas pedal with the outside of the foot.

You can do it if you have wider feet...and you know what they say about guys with wide feet?
They wear wide shoes?
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      03-28-2014, 10:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
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They wear wide shoes?
If you had wide feet...you'd know
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