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      06-28-2012, 05:47 AM   #1
freeman727
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Got killed by a first gen cts-v

I got killed going 60-120 by a first gen cts-v. Thoughts?
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      06-28-2012, 08:44 AM   #2
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I believe it. A 4 cylinder Mitsubishi Evo can walk away from an M3 up to 120 but anything after that it's all V8 goodness.

Last edited by USAM3; 06-28-2012 at 08:53 AM.
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      06-28-2012, 08:51 AM   #3
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how much do you weigh?
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      06-28-2012, 08:52 AM   #4
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I believe it. A 4 cylinder Mitsubishi Evo can do the same stock.
What the f*** are you saying?
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      06-28-2012, 09:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
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I believe it. A 4 cylinder Mitsubishi Evo can walk away from an M3 up to 120 but anything after that it's all V8 goodness.
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      06-28-2012, 09:10 AM   #6
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Black one around Htown? I think I ran him last year in my S5, and beat him at the time from about 5-100. Asked him what happened after he stated it was the older body V. Either he got some bolt ons done or you were in the wrong gear. that car is not touching our cars stock.
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      06-28-2012, 09:31 AM   #7
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My friend has a FBO(except for cams) 2004 CTS-V and he's just a bit slower then me at any speed, my car is stock and manual! As for an Evo, my friend has a EVO X GSR with Cobb stg2 and he's not even close to me, specially on the highway!
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      06-28-2012, 09:50 AM   #8
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      06-28-2012, 10:25 AM   #9
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I believe it. A 4 cylinder Mitsubishi Evo can walk away from an M3 up to 120 but anything after that it's all V8 goodness.
I don't doubt it. Easy to mod and add power, especially the older 4G63 engines. Not too uncommon to find 400-600hp cars that look stock on the outside.

CTS-V is easy to mod as well. So many LS motor tuners out there.
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      06-28-2012, 10:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
My friend has a FBO(except for cams) 2004 CTS-V and he's just a bit slower then me at any speed, my car is stock and manual! As for an Evo, my friend has a EVO X GSR with Cobb stg2 and he's not even close to me, specially on the highway!
How good is the EVO X GSR anyhow??
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      06-28-2012, 11:35 AM   #11
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What gear were you in at the jump? With our conservative torque, you gotta be jonny on the spot about gearing otherwise it's easy to get caught with your pants down.
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      06-28-2012, 11:47 AM   #12
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How good is the EVO X GSR anyhow??
I had an Evo X GSR. Stock power puts out 240whp on a mustang dyno. (Mustang dynos read lower than Dynojet)

With no mods but just a tuned reflash, it increase to 300whp. Not bad for about $500. For comparison, a stock M3 puts out 330whp on a Mustang dyno.

Here is the stock M3 on a Mustang dyno with an AA air filter.
333whp / 238 wtq


Here is an Evo X with about $1000 in bolt-ons making the same power as the M3.

Drop-in Filter
GST boost assembly
Test pipe
Modded stock exhaust catback (cut out internal pipe and flapper)

329whp / 336wtq



If you are talking performance, sure the Evo can easily be faster for less money. But the M3 isn't about bang for the buck... it is a lot more refined and comfortable than any Evo.
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      06-28-2012, 11:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
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I had an Evo X GSR. Stock power puts out 240whp on a mustang dyno. (Mustang dynos read lower than Dynojet)

If you are talking performance, sure the Evo can easily be faster for less money. But the M3 isn't about bang for the buck... it is a lot more refined and comfortable than any Evo.
I thought gearing was the biggest enemy of the Evo, I can't imagine how at speeds even a 350whp or 400whp could keep up with an M3 given no launch and the gearing advantage to the M3...
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      06-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #14
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I thought gearing was the biggest enemy of the Evo, I can't imagine how at speeds even a 350whp or 400whp could keep up with an M3 given no launch and the gearing advantage to the M3...
I was just looking at the #s... but on a top speed pull, even with the same power, the Evo will be even to about 100mph, then the M3 will pull faster at the top end. Gearing is very low on the Evo and the there is less power at redline than the M3 so eventually past 100+ the M3 will pull away. BUT, the Evo has no speed limiter at 150mph... I might have seen such a scenario before.
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      06-28-2012, 12:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cshawkeye View Post
How good is the EVO X GSR anyhow??
I think the problem with my friends EVO is the Cobb tune, on my 09 STI my cobb stage 2 made some pretty good 1/4 mile time(12.5 110mph) for only around 280whp, in the EVO they advertise around 320-330whp and the best my friend could do was 13.1 106mph and that was with a 1.7 60foot so it's not the driver the problem(he also had a STI stg2 before and was constantly running in the mid 12s)! Anyway, my friend just bought the Cobb and he's really disapointed so he's taking it off and he's making it tune by a shop around here that has made pretty good result with other EVOs. So in a week or two we'll see what his EVO is really capable of! But I can tell you that even with the Cobb, the car is fun to drive, but you can see that the car is missing a lot from the advertise #s!
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      06-28-2012, 12:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex07M3 View Post
I think the problem with my friends EVO is the Cobb tune, on my 09 STI my cobb stage 2 made some pretty good 1/4 mile time(12.5 110mph) for only around 280whp, in the EVO they advertise around 320-330whp and the best my friend could do was 13.1 106mph and that was with a 1.7 60foot so it's not the driver the problem(he also had a STI stg2 before and was constantly running in the mid 12s)! Anyway, my friend just bought the Cobb and he's really disapointed so he's taking it off and he's making it tune by a shop around here that has made pretty good result with other EVOs. So in a week or two we'll see what his EVO is really capable of! But I can tell you that even with the Cobb, the car is fun to drive, but you can see that the car is missing a lot from the advertise #s!
Any off the shelf tune is very conservative. They have to make sure people's engines don't blow up under the widest possible range of circumstances. Since Cobb started with Subarus which are more delicate than the Evo, they tune on the conservative side. A custom tune with a good tuner will yield much better results.

The Evo X is harder to tune than the older Evos. The aluminum block can't take as much abuse as the older 4G63 motors at high power. Once you reach 400whp+, you get diminishing returns and more chances to blow. And the MR's Getrag twin-clutch transmission is delicate as well. The GSR's 5 speed is much more robust.
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      06-28-2012, 02:13 PM   #17
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Any off the shelf tune is very conservative. They have to make sure people's engines don't blow up under the widest possible range of circumstances. Since Cobb started with Subarus which are more delicate than the Evo, they tune on the conservative side. A custom tune with a good tuner will yield much better results.

The Evo X is harder to tune than the older Evos. The aluminum block can't take as much abuse as the older 4G63 motors at high power. Once you reach 400whp+, you get diminishing returns and more chances to blow. And the MR's Getrag twin-clutch transmission is delicate as well. The GSR's 5 speed is much more robust.
Yeah, I know off the shelf tunes are always more conservative but that does'nt explain why STIs and 335s with Cobb tunes are running pretty close to same cars with custom tunes, as opposite to the EVOs with Cobbs which seem to be around 50whp less then custom tuned EVOs, anyway my friend wish he knew that before he bought it ,but since we have had so many good experiences with different Subys, we never tought it could be a dissapointment with the EVO.

On a side note, I just recently raced a 335i with Ams front mount, full exhaust + Cobb stg2 and I was pretty happy with the result , my stock M3 manual took 1/2 lenght when we WOT at around 50mph and it stayed like that until around 130mph where he started to really slowly close the gap and evantually take a hood on me before we stopped at probably 150mph! That was the first tuned 335 that was faster then me, but I only had 91oct in the car , usually I run 94, maybe it would've made a difference!
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      06-28-2012, 04:55 PM   #18
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      06-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #19
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I thought gearing was the biggest enemy of the Evo, I can't imagine how at speeds even a 350whp or 400whp could keep up with an M3 given no launch and the gearing advantage to the M3...
totally wrong... highway yes an m3 will begin to pull upstairs but an evo is AWD and will put car lengths on a m3 from a dig. My evo 9 w/ minimal bolt ons went 12.2 @ 114 and 1.6 60 ft. If it makes decent horsepower it's gonna pull out of the hole and hold the gap to the 1/4 mile. Remember we measure fast cars in 1/4 mile times no top speed or mile races. The evo makes lots of torque to which the m3 does not (at least at low rpm)
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      06-28-2012, 05:05 PM   #20
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I think the problem with my friends EVO is the Cobb tune, on my 09 STI my cobb stage 2 made some pretty good 1/4 mile time(12.5 110mph) for only around 280whp, in the EVO they advertise around 320-330whp and the best my friend could do was 13.1 106mph and that was with a 1.7 60foot so it's not the driver the problem(he also had a STI stg2 before and was constantly running in the mid 12s)! Anyway, my friend just bought the Cobb and he's really disapointed so he's taking it off and he's making it tune by a shop around here that has made pretty good result with other EVOs. So in a week or two we'll see what his EVO is really capable of! But I can tell you that even with the Cobb, the car is fun to drive, but you can see that the car is missing a lot from the advertise #s!

that mph is a 12 sec pass
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      06-28-2012, 05:09 PM   #21
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I'm guessing he was FBO with cams (or 'cam' I guess since it's an LS6).
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      06-28-2012, 05:14 PM   #22
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