BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      06-01-2012, 10:22 AM   #1
mitch32
Private
4
Rep
80
Posts

 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Stock M3; What to change prior to tracking?

Hello,

I have a bone stock e92 m3 (bought it 6 weeks ago), I've done lapping in the past but never with an e92 m3. What needs to be changed to fully enjoy a lapping day?

On other cars that I've lapped (ranging from civics to my 500whp r32 gtr), I've always changed brake pads/fluid/rotors, ran better tires then stock, and depending the car changed to coilover suspension. The stock tires, PS2's, are pretty damn good for a street tire and I'm sure on a track they are ok but the m3 weighs a f*** load.

Thank you,
Mitch
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 10:44 AM   #2
J!M
Private
0
Rep
71
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

You should be fine with just pads and fluid. The PS2's were fun to drive on, but I finished them off in one weekend with two drivers.

In a pinch, the stock pads can even be used at some tracks as a backup. I switched back to stock pads after finishing off my stoptech pads at VIR. The stock pads performed much better than I expected. They wear really fast on track, and definitely started to fade at the end of each session.

I went with slightly stickier tires for my last event, and I found the car had more understeer with the new tires. I'm considering trying to get more camber before I head out next time.

Have fun!
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 10:48 AM   #3
mitch32
Private
4
Rep
80
Posts

 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by J!M
You should be fine with just pads and fluid. The PS2's were fun to drive on, but I finished them off in one weekend with two drivers.

In a pinch, the stock pads can even be used at some tracks as a backup. I switched back to stock pads after finishing off my stoptech pads at VIR. The stock pads performed much better than I expected. They wear really fast on track, and definitely started to fade at the end of each session.

I went with slightly stickier tires for my last event, and I found the car had more understeer with the new tires. I'm considering trying to get more camber before I head out next time.

Have fun!
Are you on stock suspension? If you were did you find the car getting overwhelmed when in a chicane or transitions?
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 12:50 PM   #4
J!M
Private
0
Rep
71
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitch32 View Post
Are you on stock suspension? If you were did you find the car getting overwhelmed when in a chicane or transitions?
I am on stock suspension, with EDC.

I've only tracked this car at VIR, and it doesn't have any abrupt chicanes or transitions. It is definitely a big heavy car, but I didn't notice the weight on track as much as I expected.

Here's some video of one of my last sessions as an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PutjFt0B6pI

Jim
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 08:36 PM   #5
Porschefile
Major
Porschefile's Avatar
16
Rep
1,233
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (6)

at least pads and fluid. As for the suspension, it depends on what you expect out of the car. I am okay with stock suspension, one of the better stock suspensions IMO. Personally I hate PS2's (and most street tires for that matter) and PS2's melt on track if you're on pace.
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 08:51 PM   #6
klammer
Brigadier General
40
Rep
3,244
Posts

 
Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: chicago

iTrader: (0)

Fluid, lines, pads, tires, camber plates and you've got yourself a real fun DD on track
__________________
mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 09:05 PM   #7
I M STIG
RawAutos.com
I M STIG's Avatar
United_States
8
Rep
477
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E90 M3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
at least pads and fluid. As for the suspension, it depends on what you expect out of the car. I am okay with stock suspension, one of the better stock suspensions IMO. Personally I hate PS2's (and most street tires for that matter) and PS2's melt on track if you're on pace.
Not to thread jack, but do you know how the Super Sports hold up?
__________________

2009 E90 M3| Jerez Black | Extended Silver Novillo with Brushed Aluminum | 6MT | EDC | Premium Package II | Convenience Package | Enhanced Premium Sound | HD Radio | Heated front seats | Fold down rear seats | Moonroof | 19" wheels |
RawAutos.com
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 09:16 PM   #8
Porschefile
Major
Porschefile's Avatar
16
Rep
1,233
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tennessee

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by I M STIG View Post
Not to thread jack, but do you know how the Super Sports hold up?
Substantially better but not as good as the AD08/RS3/RE1R type tires or r comps. If you track the car much it is worth it to get the above mentioned tires rather than a 300tw tire IMO.
Appreciate 0
      06-01-2012, 09:25 PM   #9
I M STIG
RawAutos.com
I M STIG's Avatar
United_States
8
Rep
477
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E90 M3
Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Substantially better but not as good as the AD08/RS3/RE1R type tires or r comps. If you track the car much it is worth it to get the above mentioned tires rather than a 300tw tire IMO.
I've yet to track it, but I'm definitely interested in doing so. That's why I'm glad some people are actually replying with some real knowledge in this thread. I was going to make one, but the OP is saving me time, haha.

Thank you for your answer, by the way.
__________________

2009 E90 M3| Jerez Black | Extended Silver Novillo with Brushed Aluminum | 6MT | EDC | Premium Package II | Convenience Package | Enhanced Premium Sound | HD Radio | Heated front seats | Fold down rear seats | Moonroof | 19" wheels |
RawAutos.com
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 05:54 AM   #10
ThunderMoose
Captain
14
Rep
971
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 C2S and 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Fluid, lines, pads, tires, camber plates and you've got yourself a real fun DD on track
This. Without camber plates, you'll chew up the outer edge of the front tires.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 06:51 AM   #11
soberin
Second Lieutenant
7
Rep
240
Posts

 
Drives: M3 E90
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Substantially better but not as good as the AD08/RS3/RE1R type tires or r comps. If you track the car much it is worth it to get the above mentioned tires rather than a 300tw tire IMO.
I tracked my '09 E90 on Thurs at Lime Rock wearing Advan AD08s. These are my daily drivers---500 miles per week. Much stickier than the PS2s, but they are notably worse in the rain--not terrible, but not as confident as the PS2s.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 07:21 AM   #12
besiktas
Ultimate Driver for the Ultimate Driving Machine
United_States
31
Rep
1,016
Posts

 
Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

For a beginner, the brake fluid alone is fine. It also depends on how much you want to push yourself.
__________________

BMW M3 E92 - Silverstone II
BPM Sport Stage II Tune + Test Pipes, GTS DCT Tune
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 07:40 AM   #13
SROC5
Addicted to Track
SROC5's Avatar
United_States
29
Rep
1,646
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

iTrader: (3)

Agree on just switching out brake fluid and pads. I've had a great experience with ATE Super Blue and PFC 01 Pads. I also have PSS tires and they've held up better than I expected. I might change to track tires, but still on the fence.
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 08:32 AM   #14
klammer
Brigadier General
40
Rep
3,244
Posts

 
Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
This. Without camber plates, you'll chew up the outer edge of the front tires.
At least get it right, the inner edge if anything would wear, and I still need more camber as this car really pushes on track.
__________________
mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 10:16 AM   #15
ThunderMoose
Captain
14
Rep
971
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 C2S and 2003 E46 M3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: League City, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
At least get it right, the inner edge if anything would wear, and I still need more camber as this car really pushes on track.
Klammer - may be track dependent or my terminology is different than yours, but all of the corded tires I have ever seen with not enough camber are on the outer edge of the passenger front tire.

The tire on left is the passenger front. Cording is on the outside. I usually run CCW.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by ThunderMoose; 06-02-2012 at 10:28 AM.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 10:48 AM   #16
klammer
Brigadier General
40
Rep
3,244
Posts

 
Drives: 11 spc gry m3 e90, 07 X5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: chicago

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose
Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
At least get it right, the inner edge if anything would wear, and I still need more camber as this car really pushes on track.
Klammer - may be track dependent or my terminology is different than yours, but all of the corded tires I have ever seen with not enough camber are on the outer edge of the passenger front tire.

The tire on left is the passenger front. Cording is on the outside. I usually run CCW.
Dude, I think I totally misread your comment. My bad, thought you were saying don't get camber plates, but you're agreeing with me that without them you'll thrash the outside edge... Reading comprehension fail
__________________
mods: akra evo, dinan 3.45 diff, ess akra tune, dinan stg.3, Alcon bbk, HRE P40
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 07:00 PM   #17
VictorH
Captain
16
Rep
637
Posts

 
Drives: '09 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC

iTrader: (2)

My set up.
1) Pagid RS-19 pads front and back
2) Ground control adjustable camber plates (no problems so far)
3) Bridgestone RE-11 tires (great tires)
4) Castrol SRF brake fluid.
5) Track alignment, -2.5 degrees neg camber up front, -1.75 rear

Everything else all stock e90 including brake lines.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 08:23 PM   #18
M3 Montreal
Colonel
30
Rep
2,188
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 M3 SG ,DCT & 2011 S4
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Montreal , Canada

iTrader: (0)

Before you spend money on camber plates you could start off by removing the pins up front.

You can get to around -1.8 to -1.9 camber out front.

Rest has already been said. Brakes, tires and fluid.
__________________
2012 E92-M3 Space Grey on Fox Red, DCT

2011 B8 S4 S-Tronic , Black on magma red
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 08:36 PM   #19
VictorH
Captain
16
Rep
637
Posts

 
Drives: '09 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: SC

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Montreal View Post
Before you spend money on camber plates you could start off by removing the pins up front.

You can get to around -1.8 to -1.9 camber out front.

Rest has already been said. Brakes, tires and fluid.
I'd say, "your experience may vary." Removing my alignment pins only netted a change in camber from -1.0 to -1.25 for me. If you look at how much room the struts have to move in the housing you see that there's not really very much adjustment built in. If you are lowered then it's another story, but OP sounds stock.
Appreciate 0
      06-02-2012, 11:15 PM   #20
signes
Brigadier General
signes's Avatar
United_States
63
Rep
4,213
Posts

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Spinnin at 8k

iTrader: (3)

^^^+1, no way you will get to -1.8 or 1.9 on stock suspension.

OP, I still wouldn't run out and do plates before doing a few days to see how you like it in the M3. As others have said, pads, fluid, I would add SS lines, and a decent dual use tire like the AD08, RS3 or the others listed above.
__________________
08 E90 | Jet Black / Black | 6MT
Mods: RAC RG63 w/ Pirelli Corsa 255F/285R | Akrapovic Evo Exhaust | OEM Blacklines
Winter Setup: OEM 18s w/ Nokian Hakkapeliita R 245/40-18
Appreciate 0
      06-03-2012, 03:56 PM   #21
admranger
Lieutenant
admranger's Avatar
5
Rep
406
Posts

 
Drives: 2002 M3, 2005 X5, 2011 M3
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Las Vegas

iTrader: (0)

I've run a cubic butt ton of track days, including a decade of BMW Club racing. However, last weekend was my first in my 2011 E90. Totally stock except I took the front strut pins out. I wasn't planning on using this car for the event, but a friend's broke down so he used the E46M3 that is set up for the track (Ohlins, Eibachs, PF-06's, PF Direct Drive Rotors, swapped strut hats, etc., etc.).

My observations:

1) This is a big, heavy car (duh...). You need to let it transition all that weight without momentum. In other words, you need to pause your steering at dead center when you transition from a right turn to a left turn or vice versa. Otherwise the momentum of all that mass over compresses the springs on the second side and you will have unpleasant handling. Want to "bend" the car into a corner with slow hand movements instead of just standing it on edge.

2) Brake pads are inadequate for significant track time. They went away in heavy braking zones at speed. My next track event I'll use PF-08s.

3) Brake fluid should be upgraded to Motul 660 or similar. Not sure you need Castrol SRF, but that's the top shelf stuff w/a price point that is 10x other fluids. Your call here.

4) I was on PS-2's. Ok tire. I have RE-11's on the E46 for street use and a set of old RE-01R's that are getting burned up for track days. Probably one weekend left and then I'll likely go with some Nitto's for a value tire. I have run stickies before, but for DE events, street tires are so much more fun and you will learn more on street tires than on stickies (until you get very advanced). Since the only car that passed me was a Z06 corvette on stickies, I don't think I need to change...

Good luck and be safe!
__________________
'11 E90 M3, Mebourne/Black/Fox Red/Black, 6MT, PP2, heated seats, moonroof, split folding rear seats, iPod/USB adapter, Technic harness, JL XD 6/600.
'02 E46M3, Imola/Black, 6MT, CWP, no sunroof, Ohlins, Eibachs, PFC DD rotors, PFC pads! HAT Clarus/Legatia speakers, 2 big amps in the back.
'05 X5 4.4i, Imola/Black, Premium, Cold, HAT Imagine 6.5's, Intravee iPod adapter
Appreciate 0
      06-05-2012, 02:29 PM   #22
llis
octane chick
llis's Avatar
United_States
23
Rep
1,133
Posts

 
Drives: Ms
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2003 BMW M5  [0.00]
2002 BMW 530i (fs)  [0.00]
2013 BMW M3  [5.00]
Careful about replacing the brake lines. My friend had 2 fail -- yes, simply snap loose -- a couple of weeks ago. They were installed by the previous owner, apparently. It's all nice to have steel lines, but the connectors are cheap plastic. She's just lucky these failures (on different days) happened when starting up from a stop. Our local BMW performance shop were a bit surprised to see this kind of failure, and both mechanics with decades of racing experience noted they have never seen OEM brake lines fail. Imagine the PR problems something like that would cause!

Why these racing brake lines failed we never could figure out. Best guess is they got hot, cooled, then when turning the wheel lock to lock somehow overstressed the connector.

As for the rest: pads (DTC-70s), camber plates (which will save you $ on tires, -3 or more), high temp brake fluid (Motul 600 as others have suggested), and decent tires (AD08s) should get you through even pretty intense DE kinds of events.

Next step would be getting a set of dedicated track tires and wheels, e.g., Apex ARC8 w something like Nitto NT01s (in a square 275/35R18 setup). You can carry them to the track in the back of the car, change wheels there, have your fun, and save your street tires for the street (or else they won't be lasting long for you).
__________________

2013 E92 ///M3 ZCP 6MT Speed Yellow 2003 E39 ///M5
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:52 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST