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      05-22-2012, 09:37 PM   #1
MojorisinM3
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Anybody from Manual to DCT?

I'm not looking to start another manual vs. dct pissing contest, but looking for those who have switched from one to the other. I had an SMG in my 05 M3 and miss the rev matching. I try to heel / toe in DD situations, but its too hard with dress shoes on, and unless you're driving very aggressive, the pedals dont always line up.

With the SMG, I drive 100% of the time with paddles, not looking for the auto mode.

I've looked around at other cars, and I plan to keep an E9x M3 in the garage for a LONG time.

So I have an 08 manual sedan. I'm thinking about switching to a DCT coupe. However its going to cost me $3k to $4k to make a jump.

So the reasons for the switch - basically rev matching.

Reasons not to switch - DCT can get expensive out of warranty vs. manual clutch. I'm basically getting the same car I have now but with a DCT for $4k.

Thoughts from anybody? Should I just keep my sedan, which I LOVE by the way, and shut up?
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      05-22-2012, 10:59 PM   #2
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From what I've gathered, those that track make the switch, nobody else has :
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      05-22-2012, 11:45 PM   #3
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Never..unless my left leg gets amputated in a horrible accident...then still never..
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      05-23-2012, 01:49 AM   #4
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I was on the fence on this issue a month or so ago. Thank God I woke up and realized how boring it would be to drive this great car without the M transmission.
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      05-23-2012, 02:34 AM   #5
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i don't have an M yet, but i'll be getting a DCT. reason being, comfort in driving on socal roads. also, i'm not very experienced with a stick, and i don't want to screw up and make a bad mistake in an M.
plus, i plan to track my car, and DCT just seems like it would be tons of fun.
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      05-23-2012, 02:43 AM   #6
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I was torn with the same issue, as I have an 08 E92 M3 6MT. Looked forward to just cruising around in a DCT car during traffic. Until I traded cars with a friend of mine with a newer DCT sedan. After less than a week, I got so bored without a manual transmission and couldn't wait to get back into my car. Some days, driving a manual can def become tiresome, but it will always remain much more involving. GL with whatever decision you make. I also think it's easier to speed driving a DCT cause driving a manual really makes me pay attention to how fast I am going as well as RPMs. I got pulled over right away driving my friend's DCT M3.
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      05-23-2012, 03:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharmdphd98 View Post
I was on the fence on this issue a month or so ago. Thank God I woke up and realized how boring it would be to drive this great car without the M transmission.
What is this "the M transmission" you speak of?


Quote:
Originally Posted by FongSYM3 View Post
I was torn with the same issue, as I have an 08 E92 M3 6MT. Looked forward to just cruising around in a DCT car during traffic. Until I traded cars with a friend of mine with a newer DCT sedan. After less than a week, I got so bored without a manual transmission and couldn't wait to get back into my car. Some days, driving a manual can def become tiresome, but it will always remain much more involving. GL with whatever decision you make. I also think it's easier to speed driving a DCT cause driving a manual really makes me pay attention to how fast I am going as well as RPMs. I got pulled over right away driving my friend's DCT M3.
You crack me up.
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      05-23-2012, 06:05 AM   #8
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I've had manuals in every vehicle that I've owned that it was offered in and decided for the DCT after riding in my boss's e60 m5 smg.

Every once in a while I miss the good ole standard gear box but here's my new found reason for it being "worth" it. Our cupholders suck and the roads near my place are worse than Baghdad's. It's nice to drive around with one hand on the steering wheel and the other hand holding my cup of java. Once I get on the main highway, the cup's about half way and doesn't have much of a chance to splash/spill/tip over in my interior.

I'm a slave to the bean.
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      05-23-2012, 06:32 AM   #9
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If you want to make the switch because you can't heel/toe in dress shoes then you need to practice more. Drive barefoot if you have to, have a extra set of driving shoes in the back seat... anything to help you get comfortable with driving a manual. You are going to beat yourself up like some of these other guys if you don't because you'll feel like you passed up on a challenge and it'll start eating you up and you'll end up coming back here and bitch about how you wished you kept your manual because it is so much more involved.... blah blah blah..
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      05-23-2012, 06:55 AM   #10
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I went from a manual Z4M to the DCT and it has been six months and I am loving it. I always drive in s mode and it is alot of fun. I tried to go full auto before and it was to boring. Right hand did not know what to do.

I believe that it is the engagement that makes driving fun, dct or manual means you have to pay attention and shift. Except for the left foot, it is really similar mentally. Do i want to drive easy, rev high, downshift etc.

I spent two weeks on vacation in my wife's autobox, and when I got home I took the M out. Funny thing, I actually slammed my left foot to the floor, forgetting their was no manual clutch!
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      05-23-2012, 07:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armyav8tor View Post
If you want to make the switch because you can't heel/toe in dress shoes then you need to practice more. Drive barefoot if you have to, have a extra set of driving shoes in the back seat... anything to help you get comfortable with driving a manual. You are going to beat yourself up like some of these other guys if you don't because you'll feel like you passed up on a challenge and it'll start eating you up and you'll end up coming back here and bitch about how you wished you kept your manual because it is so much more involved.... blah blah blah..
Yeah, I've been practicing and sometimes bring a pair of puma's to wear on longer drives. then switch to sandles when i arrive.
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      05-23-2012, 07:32 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FongSYM3 View Post
I was torn with the same issue, as I have an 08 E92 M3 6MT. Looked forward to just cruising around in a DCT car during traffic. Until I traded cars with a friend of mine with a newer DCT sedan. After less than a week, I got so bored without a manual transmission and couldn't wait to get back into my car. Some days, driving a manual can def become tiresome, but it will always remain much more involving. GL with whatever decision you make. I also think it's easier to speed driving a DCT cause driving a manual really makes me pay attention to how fast I am going as well as RPMs. I got pulled over right away driving my friend's DCT M3.
good info thanks
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      05-23-2012, 09:02 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FongSYM3 View Post
I also think it's easier to speed driving a DCT cause driving a manual really makes me pay attention to how fast I am going as well as RPMs. I got pulled over right away driving my friend's DCT M3.
Yep, nothing like driving your friend's car like you stole it. It's the right time to test most efficient apexes and how close to the curb you can get.
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      05-23-2012, 09:39 AM   #14
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If you're not driving on a track, you don't need to heel-toe.

When you are finished breaking, clutch in, select gear, then throttle blip with your right foot (it doesn't need to break anymore, because, remember, you're finished breaking) and let the clutch out at the appropriate time. That's still plenty fun to practice, and it only takes a second longer.

So you say that you want rev-matched downshifts: well, you can easily have them without having to spend the money, and without the hassle of heel-toeing, and without worries of DCT related repair costs in the future.

I always drove manuals, but got a DCT 3 years ago. It is a marvel, but after a while, I got bored, and recently got a new e92 with 6MT, and I'm loving it. I haven't started heel-toeing in it yet, as I'm still getting used to rev matching as described above in this car, which I consider a pre-requisite to heel-toeing.

Good luck.
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      05-23-2012, 09:49 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MojorisinM3 View Post
So I have an 08 manual sedan. I'm thinking about switching to a DCT coupe. However its going to cost me $3k to $4k to make a jump.
I did that exact switch -2008 E90 M3 6-speed to 2012 E92 M-DCT- and absolutely no regrets... and I'm not going back to manuals as long as there is a DCT option.
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      05-23-2012, 11:40 AM   #16
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I was strictly going for a 6mt when looking but after driving the manual M3 and the DCT I chose the DCT. For some reason didn't like the feel of the manual in this car.

Plus I have a manual in my E30 which is sometimes more fun than the M. It has a full suspension, sways, etc. and is much more "raw." So best of both worlds! Modern brutal, technical power or old school knife edge "youretotallyincontrol" driving
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      05-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner View Post

I believe that it is the engagement that makes driving fun, dct or manual means you have to pay attention and shift. Except for the left foot, it is really similar mentally. Do i want to drive easy, rev high, downshift etc.
As another long-time manual driver who switched to DCT I agree.

If you've driven manual it makes you appreciate the performance of DCT in S-mode even more.

Also the "lack of engagement" argument just indicates that the poster hasn't spent much time driving DCT in S-mode. In S-mode you're actually switching gears more then when driving a manual and just as aware of the relationship between your transmission, the engine, and the road. You're just doing it more efficiently.
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      05-23-2012, 12:27 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharmdphd98 View Post
I was on the fence on this issue a month or so ago. Thank God I woke up and realized how boring it would be to drive this great car without the M transmission.
The M3 is hardly boring no matter which transmission it is paired to. It might be considered boring if you compare it to some other vehicles, however.

Take my other vehicle, the S2000. There's nothing like a 9k redline, no traction or stability control, and a chasis that loves to snap oversteer. Never a boring moment...
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      05-25-2012, 12:07 AM   #19
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The M3 is hardly boring no matter which transmission it is paired to. It might be considered boring if you compare it to some other vehicles, however.

Take my other vehicle, the S2000. There's nothing like a 9k redline, no traction or stability control, and a chasis that loves to snap oversteer. Never a boring moment...
And what you said about the S2K is exactly what makes it one of the most pure and beloved fun cars in the history of Honda motors; second only to the NSX.
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      05-25-2012, 05:42 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SD-E93-11 View Post
As another long-time manual driver who switched to DCT I agree.

If you've driven manual it makes you appreciate the performance of DCT in S-mode even more.

Also the "lack of engagement" argument just indicates that the poster hasn't spent much time driving DCT in S-mode. In S-mode you're actually switching gears more then when driving a manual and just as aware of the relationship between your transmission, the engine, and the road. You're just doing it more efficiently.
The lack of engagement issue has to do with the physical actions of using a clutch and shifter and the sensory feedback you get as you modulate the engine-drivetrain interface.

It has nothing to do with transmission, the engine and the road, but rather with the driver being more a part of the mechanics of changing gears. In a manual, you are part of the machine.

"You're just doing it more efficiently" is the wrong chouce of words. You are doing very little. The car is doing it all, other than a finger blip of a paddle.

DCT is more convenient for use in traffic just like any other automatic mechanism transmission, and it is faster on a track for sure. It is just not as much fun for the driver after the novelty has worn off, especially if you are a seasoned MT driver.

That said, there are cars in which I would take a dual clutch over a manual. Those are the performance cars with very high torque motors that are becoming more commomplace these days. It becomes increasing difficult to modulate big torque on the street. If I was to get an M5, for instance, I would get DCT. Just too hard to play around with 500+ lb-ft. Sure you can do it, but you have to be too gentle, such that some of the fun is gone. And fun is really the only reason to get a manual these days.
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      05-25-2012, 03:03 PM   #21
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The lack of engagement issue has to do with the physical actions of using a clutch and shifter and the sensory feedback you get as you modulate the engine-drivetrain interface.

It has nothing to do with transmission, the engine and the road, but rather with the driver being more a part of the mechanics of changing gears. In a manual, you are part of the machine.

"You're just doing it more efficiently" is the wrong chouce of words. You are doing very little. The car is doing it all, other than a finger blip of a paddle.

DCT is more convenient for use in traffic just like any other automatic mechanism transmission, and it is faster on a track for sure. It is just not as much fun for the driver after the novelty has worn off, especially if you are a seasoned MT driver.

That said, there are cars in which I would take a dual clutch over a manual. Those are the performance cars with very high torque motors that are becoming more commomplace these days. It becomes increasing difficult to modulate big torque on the street. If I was to get an M5, for instance, I would get DCT. Just too hard to play around with 500+ lb-ft. Sure you can do it, but you have to be too gentle, such that some of the fun is gone. And fun is really the only reason to get a manual these days.
Well you tried to dress it up a little but your post is pretty much identical to the standard reply in these DCT vs. 6MT threads where the 6MT drivers' posts:

A) Romanticizes what is a pretty basic driving skill in most of the world.

B) Attempts to establish themselves as the "fun police" and define what is fun vs. not fun for the rest of us (sorry, but as a seasoned MT driver, I still find the DCT to be more fun).

C) Contain at least one factual error about DCT, typically caused by making statements about DCT with limited or no first-hand experience.

The DCT does have a shifter and if you polled long-time DCT drivers who drive in S mode I suspect that most of them use it quite a bit over the paddles if not more.

Yes, you were correct the 6MT has a clutch pedal where the DCT does not. If interacting with that pedal is "engaging" and "fun" enough for you where it offsets the compromised performance vs. a DCT, then I congratulate you on making the right choice for you.
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      05-25-2012, 03:06 PM   #22
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A) Romanticizes what is a pretty basic driving skill in most of the world.

B) Attempts to establish themselves as the "fun police" and define what is fun vs. not fun for the rest of us (sorry, but as a seasoned MT driver, I still find the DCT to be more fun).
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