BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Mechanical Maintenance: Break-in / Oil & Fluids / Servicing
 
BPM
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-27-2015, 04:20 AM   #1
8600RPM
Lieutenant Colonel
299
Rep
1,514
Posts

Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: AZ

iTrader: (0)

Mobile 1 5w50

I just read about mobil 1 5w50 was factory fill for lexus lfa. I didn't even know they made a 5w50.

Anyone have thoughts? May be a good option based on being between 0w40 and tws
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2015, 06:21 AM   #2
Ingenio
Captain
Ingenio's Avatar
Australia
39
Rep
754
Posts

Drives: 2008 Space Grey E92 M3 (6MT)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Perth

iTrader: (0)

I've been thinking the exact same thing having recently changed to 0w40. I live in a relatively warm climate (40deg C) in summer and wouldn'tmind a halfway house as I don't want to change the oil based on season especially as I only do about 5-7000km a year... would love to hear people's thoughts/comments...
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2015, 09:50 AM   #3
dparm
But doctor...I am Pagliacci.
dparm's Avatar
United_States
223
Rep
3,174
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

It's spelled MOBIL. There is no E on the end.


Anyway, the 5w50 is pretty boring. Their 0w40 is the halo product and is far better on paper and in practical use.

I don't really put much faith in what a blender parades around as "factory fill for X"...that stuff generally comes down to economics and negotiation. Why do you think BMW switched from Castrol to Shell/Pennzoil? MONEY.
__________________
2011.5 AW M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2015, 10:16 AM   #4
aus
Major General
United_States
243
Rep
7,951
Posts

Drives: Odysse
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Seal Beach, CA

iTrader: (7)

Just get a jug of M1 15W50 at Walmart and mix it in with 0W40. There's even a rebate right now.
__________________
Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2015, 11:11 AM   #5
Shredicus
Captain
Shredicus's Avatar
United_States
125
Rep
731
Posts

Drives: 09 SSII E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: WA

iTrader: (9)

Been running a mobil1 0w40 and 5w50 blend for the summer. Gets to temp fast, hardly burns any, and seems very stout under hard driving in the insane socal summer heat

I picked up a bunch of the 5w50 when it was on sale at NAPA for $7/qt. A few months ago
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2015, 12:11 PM   #6
8600RPM
Lieutenant Colonel
299
Rep
1,514
Posts

Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: AZ

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
It's spelled MOBIL. There is no E on the end.


Anyway, the 5w50 is pretty boring. Their 0w40 is the halo product and is far better on paper and in practical use.

I don't really put much faith in what a blender parades around as "factory fill for X"...that stuff generally comes down to economics and negotiation. Why do you think BMW switched from Castrol to Shell/Pennzoil? MONEY.
It was my spell check.

I'm looking for data or experience but not sure you saying it's boring adds data What's boring?

I also think lfa is different as toyota doesn't spec mobil products in other cars so it was interesting.

Not much data. I don't care about cost. Just pure health of engine
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2015, 12:31 PM   #7
dparm
But doctor...I am Pagliacci.
dparm's Avatar
United_States
223
Rep
3,174
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8600RPM View Post
It was my spell check.

I'm looking for data or experience but not sure you saying it's boring adds data What's boring?

I also think lfa is different as toyota doesn't spec mobil products in other cars so it was interesting.

Not much data. I don't care about cost. Just pure health of engine


The datasheet just doesn't impress me compared to the 0w40. Mediocre VI, just a few/older certifications (which indicates an older formula), poor MRV. It has a nice starting TBN, that's about all. For the same money, or even less, you could have the 0w40 which is a fantastic oil.

As far as Toyota not using Mobil products in their other cars, that doesn't mean much. Mobil may have simply cut them a smoking deal just so they could advertise "our oil is in the Lexus LF-A". Last I checked, the Toyota-branded oil was blended by ConocoPhilips but that does tend to change every few years when they negotiate a new contract.

Would the 5w50 work in the S65? Probably. Can you do better? Definitely.
__________________
2011.5 AW M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      08-27-2015, 03:27 PM   #8
8600RPM
Lieutenant Colonel
299
Rep
1,514
Posts

Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: AZ

iTrader: (0)

You are assuming 0w40 is great for this car. At moderate driving it is. But nobody really has data on aggressive driving in heat with 0w40
Appreciate 1
      08-27-2015, 03:56 PM   #9
dparm
But doctor...I am Pagliacci.
dparm's Avatar
United_States
223
Rep
3,174
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 8600RPM View Post
You are assuming 0w40 is great for this car. At moderate driving it is. But nobody really has data on aggressive driving in heat with 0w40

There are guys on here who have tracked the car with M1 0w40 and their UOAs have come back just fine.
__________________
2011.5 AW M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2015, 12:04 AM   #10
Leonardo629
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
47
Rep
1,579
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: So. Cal

iTrader: (9)

Toyota 0W20 is blended by Mobil actually, so it's no coincidence LFA has M1 5W50 as factory fill.

Doesn't LFA rev to 9000rpm or something?
Appreciate 0
      08-28-2015, 09:46 AM   #11
dparm
But doctor...I am Pagliacci.
dparm's Avatar
United_States
223
Rep
3,174
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo629 View Post
Toyota 0W20 is blended by Mobil actually, so it's no coincidence LFA has M1 5W50 as factory fill.

Doesn't LFA rev to 9000rpm or something?

Oh cool, didn't know they switched suppliers. Maybe it was Honda that used CP. I don't remember now.

LF-A is a high-revving V10, yes.
__________________
2011.5 AW M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      09-01-2015, 09:16 AM   #12
squartus
Captain
United_States
100
Rep
844
Posts

Drives: 2010 E92 M3 6MT
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mississippi

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2010 E92 BMW M3  [5.00]
I just switched to Motul 5w40 a few hundred miles ago from 10w60 castrol. Got to say im liking it much better, smoother revs engine is also more quite on start ups. Of course it gets to temp much faster and seems to bleed heat much faster as well which is very nice.
__________________


ESS VT2-625/Volk te37 sl's/AA exhaust/DSS Carbon Fiber driveshaft/ARH Headers.. etc
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 04:14 PM   #13
Killerfish2012
Banned
66
Rep
2,163
Posts

Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Anyway, the 5w50 is pretty boring. Their 0w40 is the halo product and is far better on paper and in practical use.
What? M1 5W50 is a racing spec oil, while 0W40 is silver color coded, middle tier oil. Even their M1 Advanced 5W30 is stronger than it, with a golden color code, and 15,000 mile guarantee to stay in grade.

Last edited by Killerfish2012; 09-02-2015 at 07:37 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 04:15 PM   #14
Killerfish2012
Banned
66
Rep
2,163
Posts

Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
There are guys on here who have tracked the car with M1 0w40 and their UOAs have come back just fine.
You tried this rhetoric in the track section of this forum, and was laughed at.
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 04:40 PM   #15
Leonardo629
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
47
Rep
1,579
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: So. Cal

iTrader: (9)

What's this M1 Advanced 5W30 you are talking about? Got a link to the product?

There's no way M1 5W30 is stronger than M1 0W40 for performance application, judging by certifications and the data Exxon/Mobil publishes themselves.
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 04:43 PM   #16
dparm
But doctor...I am Pagliacci.
dparm's Avatar
United_States
223
Rep
3,174
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
What? M1 5W50 is a racing spec oil, while 0W40 is silver color coded, middle middle tier oil. Even their M1 Advanced 5W30 is stronger than it, with a green color code, and 15,000 mile guarantee to stay in grade.
Last I checked, the 5w30 is also in a silver bottle. Which specific 5w30 variant are you referring to? EP (Extended Performance)? If so, that's not targeted at our application. You can't really compare EP 5w30 to the 0w40. One is a long-drain, low-HTHS, low-SAPS oil, the other is a high-HTHS mid-SAPS. (M1 0w40 is not explicitly marketed as long-drain, but the certs it carries and high TBN imply this is what they intended)

I use the "halo product" term on the 0w40 simply due to it's outstanding specifications and the vast list of certs it carries. IIRC it was the first of their oils to use the new proprietary Visom basestocks. I'll admit that I use the halo term loosely, and that it may not necessarily line up with XOM's marketing department. I try to look past the marketing whenever possible.

I'm simply not a fan of the 5w50. Older specs, older certs. It's not a "bad" product, it's just that you can do much better for the same money. I welcome your perspective.
__________________
2011.5 AW M3 sedan ZCP
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 04:58 PM   #17
Leonardo629
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
47
Rep
1,579
Posts

Drives: 2013 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: So. Cal

iTrader: (9)

dparm, I think killerfish is referring to the sticker with check marks on the back of M1 bottle.

Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 05:04 PM   #18
Killerfish2012
Banned
66
Rep
2,163
Posts

Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Last I checked, the 5w30 is also in a silver bottle. Which specific 5w30 variant are you referring to? EP (Extended Performance)? If so, that's not targeted at our application. You can't really compare EP 5w30 to the 0w40. One is a long-drain, low-HTHS, low-SAPS oil, the other is a high-HTHS mid-SAPS. (M1 0w40 is not explicitly marketed as long-drain, but the certs it carries and high TBN imply this is what they intended).
Yes, it's the Mobil 1 extended performance 5W30. On the M1 0W40 bottle it states: "for better protection use our M1 5W30 Extended Performance oil". So, I'm not sure what your point is. You're being told that M1 0W40 is not that good by the makers, and you want us to go against that advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
I'm simply not a fan of the 5w50. Older specs, older certs. It's not a "bad" product, it's just that you can do much better for the same money. I welcome your perspective.
certified RACING spec oils, cannot be compared to street oils in terms of performance.

Last edited by Killerfish2012; 09-02-2015 at 05:33 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 07:05 PM   #19
dparm
But doctor...I am Pagliacci.
dparm's Avatar
United_States
223
Rep
3,174
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
Yes, it's the Mobil 1 extended performance 5W30. On the M1 0W40 bottle it states: "for better protection use our M1 5W30 Extended Performance oil". So, I'm not sure what your point is. You're being told that M1 0W40 is not that good by the makers, and you want us to go against that advice?

certified RACING spec oils, cannot be compared to street oils in terms of performance.

But M1 EP 5w30 is irrelevant in this discussion. It's not even remotely close to the appropriate oil for this engine. Again, it all comes down to picking the right tool/equipment for the job. M1 EP 5w30 and M1 0w40 are not similar products, plain and simple.

BTW, M1 0w40 is a race oil and is actually a spec oil used in several race series. It's factory fill for all Porsche spec racing cars, for example (Mobil and Porsche openly advertise this). When I was watching the 24 Hours of LeMans last year I caught pit footage from Porsche and saw them pouring it in. It is also factory fill on several supercars like the GT-R, which we know are targeted at weekend racers.

Have you spent any time reading up on this stuff on Bob Is The Oil Guy? There are a lot of tribologists that frequent the site and tons of hard data around oil blending/formulation, certifications, and so on. There are even employees of XOM, Castrol, SOPUS, and other supermajors that routinely share their years of experience. Pennzoil has had big Q&A sessions with members. There's a lot more to an oil than what the marketing department prints on the bottle, though sometimes you can really gleam some good info from the technical data sheets and MSDS online...or by asking! I've routinely asked a lot of hard questions to these companies and gotten back detailed answers.
__________________
2011.5 AW M3 sedan ZCP

Last edited by dparm; 09-02-2015 at 07:14 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 07:33 PM   #20
Killerfish2012
Banned
66
Rep
2,163
Posts

Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
But M1 EP 5w30 is irrelevant in this discussion. It's not even remotely close to the appropriate oil for this engine. Again, it all comes down to picking the right tool/equipment for the job. M1 EP 5w30 and M1 0w40 are not similar products, plain and simple.
And why is M1 5W30 "not the appropriate oil" for this car? Based on what? The oem oil specs? How is M1 0W40 remotely close to Castrol 10W60?. You're advocating 0W40 over 5W30, but skinny on the details. M1 0W40 is not the most advanced formulation Mobil makes, period. It's recommended and rated by mobil over the 0W40, so why can't we use it in the S65?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
BTW, M1 0w40 is a race oil and is actually a spec oil used in several race series. It's factory fill for all Porsche spec racing cars, for example (Mobil and Porsche openly advertise this). When I was watching the 24 Hours of LeMans last year I caught pit footage from Porsche and saw them pouring it in. It is also factory fill on several supercars like the GT-R, which we know are targeted at weekend racers.
If Nascar, or Porsche want to use it for racing, then that's fine. Those engines aren't used for more than a couple races before rebuilding. We're talking about recreational circuit racing (i.e: engines intended for a factory lifespan), and the manufacturer's oil designation. Therefore for this specific intended use M1 Racing 5W50 is the correct oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
Have you spent any time reading up on this stuff on Bob Is The Oil Guy? There are a lot of tribologists that frequent the site and tons of hard data around oil blending/formulation, certifications, and so on. There are even employees of XOM, Castrol, SOPUS, and other supermajors that routinely share their years of experience. Pennzoil has had big Q&A sessions with members. There's a lot more to an oil than what the marketing department prints on the bottle, though sometimes you can really gleam some good info from the technical data sheets and MSDS online...or by asking! I've routinely asked a lot of hard questions to these companies and gotten back detailed answers.
I've spent more time on the base oil is a religion forum, I mean bob is the oil guy than you have. To summize what they preach: one should only be concerned with base oils, specifically ester based group IV formulations. I can go into specifics on why I think their advise is only good to a point, but lets just say that manufacturers change their formulations all the time, and Most of those guys are busy touting outdated MSDS's. I also learned though that the word "synthetic" has no real meaning.
Appreciate 0
      09-02-2015, 08:44 PM   #21
dparm
But doctor...I am Pagliacci.
dparm's Avatar
United_States
223
Rep
3,174
Posts

Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago, IL

iTrader: (0)

I never said M1 0w40 is remotely close to TWS, but it is certainly closer than M1 EP 5w30. If you believe so strongly in the EP 5w30, feel free to run it. It is your car, after all, and your decision. I'd never use it in the S65 -- way too thin (HTHS under 3.0). I'm also a bit confused why you keep calling it Mobil 1 "Racing" 5w50. There is an actual Mobil 1 Racing 0w50, which they don't advise for street use.

Like anything else, I encourage OP to go do the necessary research and make an informed decision. Reading marketing lingo on Mobil's website isn't going to cut it.

I'm done arguing about this. Now I remember why I don't come on this site much anymore (or any online forums, for that matter).
__________________
2011.5 AW M3 sedan ZCP

Last edited by dparm; 09-02-2015 at 08:55 PM.
Appreciate 0
      09-05-2015, 01:01 AM   #22
Killerfish2012
Banned
66
Rep
2,163
Posts

Drives: E90 335I, E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dparm View Post
I never said M1 0w40 is remotely close to TWS, but it is certainly closer than M1 EP 5w30. If you believe so strongly in the EP 5w30, feel free to run it. It is your car, after all, and your decision. I'd never use it in the S65 -- way too thin (HTHS under 3.0). I'm also a bit confused why you keep calling it Mobil 1 "Racing" 5w50. There is an actual Mobil 1 Racing 0w50, which they don't advise for street use.
Lets look at what Mobil has to say about M1 0W40 vs M1 5W50 in racing applications.

First M1 0W40: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_0W-40.aspx

Product description: "Mobil 1™ is the world’s leading synthetic motor oil brand delivering our ultimate performance and protection.

Mobil 1™ 0W-40 European Car Formula (North America) or Protection Formula (rest of the World) Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil is engineered for the latest gasoline and diesel (without Diesel Particulate Filters or DPFs) engine technology delivering excellent all-round performance. It provides exceptional cleaning power, wear protection and overall performance. Mobil 1 0W-40 keeps your engine running like new in all driving conditions."

Now M1 5W50: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il1_5W-50.aspx

Mobil 1™ is the world’s leading synthetic motor oil brand delivering our ultimate performance and protection.

Mobil 1 5W-50 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil is our tried and trusted formulation delivering great all-round performance. Mobil 1 5W-50 keeps your engine performing like new. This race-proven technology is suited for extreme driving conditions and motorsport applications.

Racing or normal driving, Mobil 1 5W-50 (Rally Formula) helps to provide heavy-duty engine performance and protection for an outstanding driving experience.

The word "Race", or "Motorsports" doesn't appear anywhere on the literature from Mobil on 0W40.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:55 AM.




m3post
m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST