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      04-23-2015, 10:50 PM   #1
gsxrliterbikz
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Blackstone report on new to me 08

A lil background. Bought it in Dec of 2014. It was a one owner car. Doctors wife used it as a summer cruiser only. I Put about 7k on this oil. I assume it was fresh oil when I bought the car. 10/60. But who knows. It had 53k when i bought it.
Most of the miles I put on this oil were highway miles at 70+ mph. I had driven it from NH to FLA so that accounts for about half of the miles.
All I can say is im super sad



After spending a few min. looking through other reports, I have yet to see one with such high levels of lead.
Even if it turns out to be a fluke and my next report comes back with lower levels, I think the damage is done.
I had hoped to drive this car for a bit before sinking money into it, but I guess not.
Guess my next few days are going to be looking at the benifits of oe bearing vs treadted ones and oe bolts vs ARP bolts. Probably going to do all new motor and trans mounts while its apart. Maybe PS lines too. Depending on how broke I am after this.



Might be setting off a bomb with this question but any thoughts on OE parts VS ARP and WPC coated or VAC bearings?
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      04-23-2015, 11:01 PM   #2
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I'm far from experienced with bearing issues, but the levels of lead in that report are hard to ignore. I think you're wise to give the car a rest until you identify the culprit and repair/replace accordingly.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge can chime in. Best of luck!
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      04-23-2015, 11:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxrliterbikz View Post
Doctors wife used it as a summer cruiser only.
I don't believe this at all.

Sorry about your luck, get those bearings replaced
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      04-23-2015, 11:20 PM   #4
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Op sorry to hear about report. Hopefully it turns out to be temporary and clears up.
Are you hearing anything from the engine that doesn't sound right?

If the lady didn't warm up car properly that could have something to do with it. I was just discussing the S65 with an engine builder I know today. He seemed to think warm up and proper break in of engine is vital to bearing health and longevity.
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      04-23-2015, 11:47 PM   #5
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I have a video of a cold start I'll try to upload, but it sounds pretty normal to me. Just like any other s65 I've heard.
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      04-23-2015, 11:52 PM   #6
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^ Maybe drive it over to a trusted shop and have them listen also.
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      04-24-2015, 12:07 AM   #7
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Could be a particle streak also... You could run the new oil for 2500 miles then run another analysis and see if it looks any better....but the caveat is possible further damage within those 2500 miles. Tough call... Good luck and keep us posted.
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      04-24-2015, 02:58 AM   #8
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If I were you I'd just pony up the $2500 or so for the bearing change. Better safe than sorry.
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      04-24-2015, 03:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxrliterbikz View Post
I have a video of a cold start I'll try to upload, but it sounds pretty normal to me. Just like any other s65 I've heard.
You are extremely unlikely to gain any insight from the various ticking noises made by nearly every M3 when cold or warm.
If a badly worn rod bearing is making a ticking noise then it deteriorates extremely quickly, literally within a few miles. In this case raising the throttle speed from tickover to around 2 to 2.5K rpm will give a loud ticking knocking noise and that is the time to switch off and check your bank balance.
On your side is a low copper reading so all is not lost, if you plan to change the bearings sometime soon then I would have thought sooner rather than later.
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      04-24-2015, 10:33 AM   #10
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Those iron levels lead me to believe there is more than 7k on the oil. I would do another analysis or two after driving only 5k on oil.
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      04-24-2015, 01:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REV1 View Post
Op sorry to hear about report. Hopefully it turns out to be temporary and clears up.
Are you hearing anything from the engine that doesn't sound right?

If the lady didn't warm up car properly that could have something to do with it. I was just discussing the S65 with an engine builder I know today. He seemed to think warm up and proper break in of engine is vital to bearing health and longevity.
and what oil temperature did he recommend? I always think around 200 degrees the point where it's okay to start revving above 3k rpms. For me, it usually takes about 5 minutes of city driving after the rev counter rev limit removes the restriction
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      04-24-2015, 02:36 PM   #12
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^ I will ask him over weekend and get back to you on that. Its a good question.

His take was interesting on the oil type.. I asked him what he would do with the whole
M1 0-40 vs TWS 10-60 I explained the 1-2% of s65 engines with rod bearing failure.
He said he would stick with the TWS and that in a high revving engine he is more concerned about the high temp breakdown than anything else and he likes the 10-60 for that application. And he said the part of the engine that would benefit the most when running 0-40 is the top end when cold starting and not necessarily the rod bearings. But at high temps and high RPM load he favors TWS 10-60. He's always advocated M1 in most engines but he said its not the end all solution.
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      04-24-2015, 02:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REV1 View Post
^ I will ask him over weekend and get back to you on that. Its a good question.

His take was interesting on the oil type.. I asked him what he would do with the whole
M1 0-40 vs TWS 10-60 I explained the 1-2% of s65 engines with rod bearing failure.
He said he would stick with the TWS and that in a high revving engine he is more concerned about the high temp breakdown than anything else and he likes the 10-60 for that application. And he said the part of the engine that would benefit the most when running 0-40 is the top end when cold starting and not necessarily the rod bearings. But at high temps and high RPM load he favors TWS 10-60. He's always advocated M1 in most engines but he said its not the end all solution.
I agree with his points. Also please note TWS or Castrol Edge Professional is no more. BMW moved to Shell as manufacturer. I'm sure it doesn't really matter in his book as he's considering oil viscosity, but others on the board also consider other factors of the oil when they recommended M1 0-40.

I am interested in his take on proper oil temp before beating on the engine.
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      04-24-2015, 03:03 PM   #14
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OP - before becoming too upset about the prospect of bearing failure, why not just re-submit the oil in another 5k miles? The car seems to be driving fine otherwise, correct?
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      04-24-2015, 03:04 PM   #15
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A band aid might be running 0w40 for now and saving up for rod bearing replacement. Of course do oil analysis on the 0w40 to monitor the situation.
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      04-24-2015, 03:06 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
A band aid might be running 0w40 for now and saving up for rod bearing replacement. Of course do oil analysis on the 0w40 to monitor the situation.
Why would 0W40 (presumably M1) serve as a bandaid in this situation? TIA
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      04-24-2015, 05:39 PM   #17
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We all know bearings do wear a bit in these motors. Sounds like you haven't hit cooper yet, when cooper starts to spike then there is more cause to worry IMO.

But to be better safe than sorry, plan to do a bearing change soon.

My plan is to go for the Custom Chevite lead/copper bearings vs the newer lead-free ones.
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      04-24-2015, 05:57 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
Those iron levels lead me to believe there is more than 7k on the oil. I would do another analysis or two after driving only 5k on oil.
I wondered the same thing. It was a dealer buy, so I wondered if the dealer actually replaced the oil. It was a CPO car that I'm sure got serviced by BMW scheduled maint. So it might have had an oil change 4,5,6k before it was traded and the dealer skipped changing it. I actually think this might be the case since about a week after changing it, I got an oil service light on the dash saying it was due. Ive never seen a BMW computer tell me to change the oil in 7k. Usually more like 15k

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddalun View Post
OP - before becoming too upset about the prospect of bearing failure, why not just re-submit the oil in another 5k miles? The car seems to be driving fine otherwise, correct?
Car runs great. But for peace of mind, I'm just gonna do it. Plan is to do it at the end of May. I'll test the oil again then. By then I'll have around 3k on that oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
A band aid might be running 0w40 for now and saving up for rod bearing replacement. Of course do oil analysis on the 0w40 to monitor the situation.
Just curious, why is 0-40 a band aid? I know others that have switched to 0-40. Just haven't done enough research myself to make an educated decision.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
We all know bearings do wear a bit in these motors. Sounds like you haven't hit cooper yet, when cooper starts to spike then there is more cause to worry IMO.

But to be better safe than sorry, plan to do a bearing change soon.

My plan is to go for the Custom Chevite lead/copper bearings vs the newer lead-free ones.
I was mildly comforted by the 0 copper levels. I too think I'm getting the VAC coated clevite bearings. Still undecided on which bolts to use. OE seems like a good choice, but the install requirements take forever I guess. ARP seems like the easier install, but supposedly oval out the bearing surface.
Plan is to do a replacement at the end of May. A local guy said he would help me and he has a lift. So I just need to get to ordering parts.
1k to fix rod bearings is pretty cheap in the grand scheme of things.
And it gives me a great opportunity to do motor mounts, trans mounts, fluid changes, and I might spring for some under drive pulleys.
BTW, what wheels are in your sig? Beautiful!
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      04-24-2015, 06:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddalun View Post
Why would 0W40 (presumably M1) serve as a bandaid in this situation? TIA
If you search on the forum, you will find many oil analysis reports for 0w40 where there is reduced lead and copper levels after switching from 10w60 to 0w40. Most people that have changed have the same result. My local friends who have E9x M3s all show similar results on their oil analysis. If you can reduce bearing wear through using a different oil, that is a good band aid until the real problem is fixed.

If you read the huge rod bearing thread, you'll also find that the cause of rod bearing wear is lack of rod bearing clearance. The thinner oil allows it to lube the bearing better as well as other benefits.
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      04-24-2015, 08:10 PM   #20
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Just a few comments:

- I ALWAYS change my oil when I buy a new car. I really just don't trust anyone. Sure its over $100 but its cheap insurance IMHO.
- You could have had a decent idea of oil life if you would have paid for Blackstone TBN analysis which was $10 more
- If I had an option I would go with the custom bearings, although my understanding is they are not yet out. I also worry a bit about main bearings, as in some corner cases it turns out those have failed as well.
- When you change the bearings, be sure to flush out the oil coolers as best you can and maybe even put some sacrificial oil in there for a few miles and immediately change again. You want to try to flush out as much of the oil stuff as possible, especially if the bearings are starting to come apart (you will see once you pull them).
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      04-24-2015, 10:15 PM   #21
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Man thats rough.... I have 66k on mine and my lead is 10 and my copper was 1. I've always properly warmed up my car though.

I would get the bearings done for sure.
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      04-25-2015, 08:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxrliterbikz View Post
BTW, what wheels are in your sig? Beautiful!
Thanks! They are work Brombachers. Check my threads for more pictures.
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