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      05-18-2012, 09:19 PM   #23
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This thread is both funny and sad at the same time. It's just as ridiculous as when all those folks accused Bush of being behind the 9/11 attacks.

People will believe what they want to believe.
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      05-18-2012, 09:52 PM   #24
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Maybe not

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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
You don't get to create your own facts. He's been polling ahead or equal to Romney. Simple as that. Not slim. The economy will continue improving as a near certainty. You can hate him all you want, but you can't proclaim false information.
Maybe not. The market over the past eight to twelve weeks has gone down over 5%. Caterpillar Inc for example has went from 116 to today 88. That's almost 30 bucks. I may not be much of a market watcher but it looks like it is on the verge of a free fall like in 08-09. I certainly hope not.
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      05-19-2012, 09:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mspeasl View Post
Maybe not. The market over the past eight to twelve weeks has gone down over 5%. Caterpillar Inc for example has went from 116 to today 88. That's almost 30 bucks. I may not be much of a market watcher but it looks like it is on the verge of a free fall like in 08-09. I certainly hope not.
Really, verge of a free fall, based upon what? The market is still up for the year, and the "5% down" you noted is relative to the 4 1/2 yr peak it hit this year. In 08-09 we were in a great recession, now we're not. The Dow has doubled since March of 09. Your bias is showing.
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      05-19-2012, 12:36 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
You don't get to create your own facts. He's been polling ahead or equal to Romney. Simple as that. Not slim. The economy will continue improving as a near certainty. You can hate him all you want, but you can't proclaim false information.
The cons make up shit all the time to support their warped views. Based on the increased con rhetoric since Romney became the clear nominee, you can tell the cons are fucking scared about the election.
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      05-19-2012, 10:12 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
In 08-09 we were in a great recession, now we're not.
Tell that to the families that still have no work and are in foreclosure

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Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
Your bias is showing.
Not my bias, just my billfold. I lost 62% of our portfolio three years ago and I really don't wish to go through that again and it sure feels like we could
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      05-20-2012, 03:27 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by mspeasl View Post
Tell that to the families that still have no work and are in foreclosure
Waaahhhhhh! Look who's the bleeding heart now. Hey guess what? There's always unemployment. Tell them to do the republican thing and go get a job, and if they can't afford their house, move!
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Not my bias, just my billfold. I lost 62% of our portfolio three years ago and I really don't wish to go through that again and it sure feels like we could
I lost 50% 3 years ago, got back 40% and 20% the next two; so what? I ask you why you're pretending the economy's different than it is, and your response is "it sure feels like it". You want Obama to fail so much, you can't open your eyes. Pathetic and un-American.
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      05-21-2012, 09:53 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
Just as well as the 2006 mid-terms did for the GOP. Do you not see the cause and effect?

It's 2012, and we are recovering from the Great Recession. Economy's improving, troops are coming home, America has been kept safe from terrorism, and the government is staying out of our personal lives. So why do we need Romney? He's the guy who first implemented "Obamacare", who wanted to let the US auto industry fold, who wants to invade Iran, who's on the wrong side of equal rights, who pissed-off all the immigrant-Americans. Oh, and whatever he says he stands for, we have video of him saying and doing the opposite. He has to be the weakest candidate ever to get nominated. The GOP picked more than a half-dozen different people to be frontrunners instead of him. So good luck with all that.
I've never posted in this part of the forum before, but I like to read these posts because theyíre very enlightening.

I just find posts like this funny, here you are characterizing Obama as a president that cannot do wrong, and then attack Romney as a guy that canít do anything right. Its post like these that are not constructive at all, and donít get me wrong these posts come from both sides. Iíd like to think that there could be more positive discussions about this topic but I know when you talk about politics that doesnít happen. And for the record Iím a registered Republican, but my views have evolved over the years.
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      05-21-2012, 10:14 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim M-Sport View Post
I just find posts like this funny, here you are characterizing Obama as a president that cannot do wrong, and then attack Romney as a guy that canít do anything right. Its post like these that are not constructive at all. Iíd like to think that there could be more positive discussions about this topic
Never said Obama can't do wrong, never said Romney can't do right. I was actually responding to a direct statement by another poster (that's the constructive part), who falsely claimed that Obama had very little support. I'm not sure how this involves you, or how you think your post is constructive.

And yes, there could be more positive discussions, but just look at the titles of the threads in this forum, and tell me why the discussions are not more positive.
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      05-21-2012, 10:58 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
I'm not sure how this involves you, or how you think your post is constructive.
My apologies I did not realize that this sub forum was dedicated to ScotchAndCigar vs. the ďcrazyĒ right-wingers. I wasnít trying to get myself involved in your argument with EvosM3, I was just raising a general point about this sub-forum and your post was the one that caught my eye, again my apologies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
Never said Obama can't do wrong, never said Romney can't do right. I was actually responding to a direct statement by another poster (that's the constructive part), who falsely claimed that Obama had very little support.
I understand that within the context of your conversation about the mid-term elections what you were saying about Obama, but just got confused as to why Romney and his record were brought into it. That part didnít seem too constructive to me, but as you say that does not involve me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
And yes, there could be more positive discussions, but just look at the titles of the threads in this forum, and tell me why the discussions are not more positive.
Like I said in my first post this stuff goes both ways right and left. I enjoy talking politics and I think that a lot can be learned from listening with an open mind to others and their opinions & experiences on issues. I also agree with you that there are many on this forum that donít see it that way. I just canít stand the people that think Obama is the Savior just as much as the people that think he is the Anit-Christ. Thatís all.
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      05-21-2012, 11:19 AM   #32
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^ man, just don't even. Just continue to sit back and laugh at this subforum, and contribute nothing Some of these guys are just hysterical. It's fun to watch
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      05-21-2012, 02:49 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim M-Sport View Post
I just canít stand the people that think Obama is the Savior just as much as the people that think he is the Anit-Christ.
In my experience, the only people who call Obama the Savior are cons "projecting" what they think libs think.

I'm far from the only poster here on the left, and as I implied, you can look at all the thread titles, look at who started them, and decide for yourself who's "crazy" (your words). But I'd suggest dropping the fake "fair & balanced" pretense.
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      05-21-2012, 03:46 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
Trim, you trying to be like the Swiss and play neutral isn't going to work.
It might, if he had tried that. But that's clearly not what he did.
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      05-21-2012, 03:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
It might, if he had tried that. But that's clearly not what he did.
It was a lame attempt, but an attempt nonetheless, all while throwing in subtle (or not so subtle) attacks. That's pretty much why I deleted my post, I'd like to see what else he tries to come up with.
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      05-21-2012, 03:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
In my experience, the only people who call Obama the Savior are cons "projecting" what they think libs think.
I understand and respect that, but you should also know that in my experiences I have seen a few people that see him that way. But I have also talked to a few people that hate him and when you talk to them they can’t provide a single specific reason for their hate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
I'm far from the only poster here on the left, and as I implied, you can look at all the thread titles, look at who started them, and decide for yourself who's "crazy" (your words).
Why are you making this about you? I was just using your post as an example about the general forum and it wasn’t an attack on you or your views. I’ve seen the thread titles and I’ve read the posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
But I'd suggest dropping the fake "fair & balanced" pretense.
Fake pretense huh?? Glad you are attacking me without knowing a thing about me other then two or three posts.

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      05-21-2012, 04:01 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
It was a lame attempt, but an attempt nonetheless, all while throwing in subtle (or not so subtle) attacks. That's pretty much why I deleted my post, I'd like to see what else he tries to come up with.
I didn't see your post before you deleted it, but what were my subtle attacks?

BTW I never claimed to be playing neutral but why can't somebody "Play neutral" like you say? Why do I have to be a diehard Democrat or a diehard Republican? When can't I have views and beliefs that come from both parties?

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      05-21-2012, 04:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim M-Sport View Post
I didn't see your post before you deleted it, but what were my subtle attacks?

Why can't somebody "Play neutral" like you say? Why do I have to be a diehard Democrat or a diehard Republican? When can't I have views and beliefs that come from both parties?
I never said any of that, but you didn't come off as neutral at all to me, but you certainly tried (by trying to be "positive" later on). You basically attacked Scotch right away, but then say how you want more "positive" discussion. How can you be positive, while attacking someone like that?

Re-reading your posts, your inital post says Scotch makes you laugh because his post is not constructive. How does your post (accusing someone of not being constructive) add anything at all to the issue at hand? It doesn't seem like it does to me... You also put some words into his mouth, so of course he's going to go on the defensive...

So to sum this up, he drove you to decide to post here for the first time with his "non-constructive" post (according to you), then you put words into his mouth, and call his post non-constructive (how is your post any more constructive to the issue?), and then he basically called you out on being a hypocrite (saying your post wasn't constructive). Then you seem to take offense, saying that you didn't know the forum was dedicated to him and the right wing "crazies" arguing, while essentially admitting that your own post added nothing to the thread. Then you say you like to talk politics, when there was really nothing political about your initial post, you just claimed someone wasn't being constructive. Then you finally take a stab at Obama, perpetuating these labels on him as the "savior" and the "anti-Christ." Am I right so far?

There's nothing wrong with having ideals from both ends of the spectrum. I have a lot of those... But your post to Scotch was easily seen as just an attack on him for no real reason at all, with a false pretense of being "neutral," then a nice little stab at the end to the current administration (which you know he favors based on his posts).

I'll be the first to admit, none of my posts in this subforum are constructive to any of the threads usually. This whole post adds nothing to the debate on the issue at hand (the reason the thread was created). But can you see how you basically attacked him, while being a bit of a hypocrite?
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      05-21-2012, 04:33 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim M-Sport View Post
I didn't see your post before you deleted it, but what were my subtle attacks?

Why can't somebody "Play neutral" like you say? Why do I have to be a diehard Democrat or a diehard Republican? When can't I have views and beliefs that come from both parties?
You can, and there are some here who are more independent, like Templar and iDeliver. I'm not a "down-the-line" democrat, although some don't bother to care, but I've described my political position elsewhere in this forum.

As I've said before, I don't start threads or agendas. I post in defense of facts vs opinion. Here are your subtle attacks:

You:You are characterizing Obama as a president that cannot do wrong, and then attack Romney as a guy that can’t do anything right. Its post like these that are not constructive at all.
Me: You took a single post of mine, exaggerated it to make me look like a partisan sheep rather than a thinking person, by claiming a platitude which I never stated, and then knocked it down (not constructive). So now you're the observant, neutral guy who comes along and sees this ugly partisan stuff going on.
You: And don’t get me wrong these posts come from both sides.
Me: This is your fair & balanced pretense; you say it's both sides, but you only criticize my post.
You: I’d like to think that there could be more positive discussions about this topic but I know when you talk about politics that doesn’t happen. And for the record I’m a registered Republican, but my views have evolved over the years.
Me: More fair & balanced pretense. You're the "Washington outsider", right?

So that's it, how'd I do?
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      05-21-2012, 04:35 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
and as I implied, you can look at all the thread titles, look at who started them, and decide for yourself who's "crazy" (your words).
Yea, you're more a "sit back and let other people make points about how horrific Obama has done as President and either find something to pedantically pick apart about what they said or just plain insult them" kind of guy. More of a defensive offense, if you will.
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      05-21-2012, 06:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar View Post
I never said any of that, but you didn't come off as neutral at all to me, but you certainly tried (by trying to be "positive" later on). You basically attacked Scotch right away, but then say how you want more "positive" discussion. How can you be positive, while attacking someone like that?

Re-reading your posts, your inital post says Scotch makes you laugh because his post is not constructive. How does your post (accusing someone of not being constructive) add anything at all to the issue at hand? It doesn't seem like it does to me... You also put some words into his mouth, so of course he's going to go on the defensive...

So to sum this up, he drove you to decide to post here for the first time with his "non-constructive" post (according to you), then you put words into his mouth, and call his post non-constructive (how is your post any more constructive to the issue?), and then he basically called you out on being a hypocrite (saying your post wasn't constructive). Then you seem to take offense, saying that you didn't know the forum was dedicated to him and the right wing "crazies" arguing, while essentially admitting that your own post added nothing to the thread. Then you say you like to talk politics, when there was really nothing political about your initial post, you just claimed someone wasn't being constructive. Then you finally take a stab at Obama, perpetuating these labels on him as the "savior" and the "anti-Christ." Am I right so far?

There's nothing wrong with having ideals from both ends of the spectrum. I have a lot of those... But your post to Scotch was easily seen as just an attack on him for no real reason at all, with a false pretense of being "neutral," then a nice little stab at the end to the current administration (which you know he favors based on his posts).

I'll be the first to admit, none of my posts in this subforum are constructive to any of the threads usually. This whole post adds nothing to the debate on the issue at hand (the reason the thread was created). But can you see how you basically attacked him, while being a bit of a hypocrite?
Nowhere did I say in any of my posts that they are being constructive to the issue of this thread, I know that they are not. And like I said before that post was one, just one example of this whole sub-forum. My point was that the post made me laugh because this thread was about Obama and whether or not he was born in Kenya, and then Scotch and Evo starting talking about whether or not the mid-term elections have any effect on then President Bush and President Obama. But in Scotch's response he drags Romney into it, that is the part that made me laugh. How is Romney constructive to this thread? And also let me just say that I was not and am not attacking Scotch, it was that one post that I brought up. i never said he was an idiot or a crazy or that his beliefs were wrong.

How is that a stab at Obama that I said some believe he is the Savior and some believe he is the anti-Christ? He's not responsible for how people react to him. So to say that was stab at him, I think is a reach.

He has be condescending and combative in everyone of his post to me, even after I said I wasn't attacking him or his beliefs.

And I would love to know what words I put in his mouth.

I think you guys are making a lot of assumptions about me and my beliefs based on past members coming in here and just attacking people with different views. None of which I have done.
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      05-21-2012, 06:46 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bolinp78 View Post
Yea, you're more a "sit back and let other people make points about how horrific Obama has done as President and either find something to pedantically pick apart about what they said or just plain insult them" kind of guy. More of a defensive offense, if you will.
Wow! You're a classic! You obviously only chimed-in to make the "horrific Obama" statement, so you cloak it in this fake personal criticism guise. Wow! How stupid do you think we are?

I don't "sit back", it's a public forum, I have no control over the posts made here. But if your debating tactic is to come here and paint an all-encompassing "horrific" picture, I call bullshit and say give us some facts. After all, you left out the part where I work from facts, as opposed to your penchant for rage-filled propaganda.
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      05-21-2012, 06:54 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trim M-Sport View Post
But in Scotch's response he drags Romney into it, that is the part that made me laugh. How is Romney constructive to this thread?.
I answered most of your questions in post #40 above. But to put the question above to rest, evo made a false statement about the polls in the presidential race, hence the Romney comparison. Got it?
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      05-21-2012, 07:07 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
You:You are characterizing Obama as a president that cannot do wrong, and then attack Romney as a guy that can’t do anything right. Its post like these that are not constructive at all.
Me: You took a single post of mine, exaggerated it to make me look like a partisan sheep rather than a thinking person, by claiming a platitude which I never stated, and then knocked it down (not constructive). So now you're the observant, neutral guy who comes along and sees this ugly partisan stuff going on.
Again I was talking in context of that post, not you and what you believe. I don't care what username said that, I would have made the same comment. I never said that you believe everything that MSNBC tells you and that you agree with everything that the Democrat Party says, you are the one making that assumption.

And again why bring Romney up in a discussion about mid-term elections and their effects on the siting President? That was my point.

"So now you're the observant, neutral guy who comes along and sees this ugly partisan stuff going on."
Why the continued condescending attacks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
You: And don’t get me wrong these posts come from both sides.
Me: This is your fair & balanced pretense; you say it's both sides, but you only criticize my post.
I just started to post in this section and like I said before that was just the last one I saw and decided to post. Sorry if you take offense to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotchAndCigar View Post
You: I’d like to think that there could be more positive discussions about this topic but I know when you talk about politics that doesn’t happen. And for the record I’m a registered Republican, but my views have evolved over the years.
Me: More fair & balanced pretense. You're the "Washington outsider", right?

You're assuming that's how I see myself? I'm just somebody that half-heartly follows politics and watches Fox News, MSNBC & CNN in the evenings when the Sox have a day off. Never have and never will act like I know everything about politics or issues.
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