BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
 
VF Engineering
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-13-2012, 04:52 AM   #1
OC3
Havin' a blast!
 
OC3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 4,539
iTrader: (0)

Chuckwalla Valley Raceway (CCW) oh shit moments 05.12.2012

Man, manual labor is tiring, lulz.


__________________

BRP CW13 1:58 | CVR CW 2:01 | CVR CCW 2:02 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP | JRZ RS Pro | Brembo BBK | Endless ME20 | Volk TE37 18x10.5 squared | NT01/TD
OC3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 04:57 AM   #2
Adriansideways
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2008 E90 M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Pretoria

Posts: 154
iTrader: (0)

What tyre setup are you running? Your car seems very loose at the back
Adriansideways is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 05:02 AM   #3
OC3
Havin' a blast!
 
OC3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 4,539
iTrader: (0)

R-S3, 275/35/18 squared
__________________

BRP CW13 1:58 | CVR CW 2:01 | CVR CCW 2:02 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP | JRZ RS Pro | Brembo BBK | Endless ME20 | Volk TE37 18x10.5 squared | NT01/TD
OC3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 10:09 AM   #4
wwjd15
Banned
 
Drives: 11 E92 M3 MR
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Orange County

Posts: 1,322
iTrader: (6)

Haha you must had fun!!! It seems MDM developed a bad habit on you, most of those moments were caused by too much steering input.
wwjd15 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 01:06 PM   #5
OC3
Havin' a blast!
 
OC3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 4,539
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd15 View Post
Haha you must had fun!!! It seems MDM developed a bad habit on you, most of those moments were caused by too much steering input.
__________________

BRP CW13 1:58 | CVR CW 2:01 | CVR CCW 2:02 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP | JRZ RS Pro | Brembo BBK | Endless ME20 | Volk TE37 18x10.5 squared | NT01/TD
OC3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 02:41 PM   #6
sleepless
Private First Class
 
sleepless's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Redmond, WA

Posts: 116
iTrader: (0)

Nicely done! Looks like a great track for pushing the limits and learning car control.
__________________
'11 E90, Cantrell brake ducts, Apex 18x10 ARC-8, 265/35 PSS, RS19 pads, -2.2 camber, CMS Lap Timer Pro
sleepless is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 03:00 PM   #7
Porschefile
Major
 
Porschefile's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 DCT, E46, '12 ZX6R
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Tennessee

Posts: 1,153
iTrader: (6)

Nice saves. It does look like it oversteers. That track looks to have a lot of runoff, wish we had that on the east coast. I guess VIR is closest in terms of runoff but still plenty of nice walls to hit.
Porschefile is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 03:15 PM   #8
Mthrice
First Lieutenant
 
Mthrice's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 e92M3 AW/BLK CF roof 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Planet Earth

Posts: 349
iTrader: (1)

Nice driving Randall, perfect track for MDM off! How did your times compare with MDM on times?
Mthrice is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 04:44 PM   #9
frenchM3dreamer
Captain
 
Drives: 08 Mitsu Eclipse Spyder GTP
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edmonton, AB

Posts: 786
iTrader: (0)

the good thing about these "oh shit" moments, is that you camera captures a lot less wind noise, letting us hear the tires screaming better
frenchM3dreamer is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 09:09 PM   #10
Car54
Captain
 
Drives: 1999 Z3 Mcoupe | 2008 M3/4
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Lutz, FL

Posts: 837
iTrader: (1)

Might want to increase front psi or decrease rear psi.

Or try to get your turning done sooner....as in well before apex.

Great video and editing. Great track for practicing car control.
__________________

Craig Brickner
BM
W CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor
Click to Join: BMWCCA # 366493
Car54 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 10:34 PM   #11
OC3
Havin' a blast!
 
OC3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 4,539
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriansideways View Post
What tyre setup are you running? Your car seems very loose at the back
Quote:
Originally Posted by wwjd15 View Post
Haha you must had fun!!! It seems MDM developed a bad habit on you, most of those moments were caused by too much steering input.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Nice saves. It does look like it oversteers. That track looks to have a lot of runoff, wish we had that on the east coast. I guess VIR is closest in terms of runoff but still plenty of nice walls to hit.
Due to running MDM for so long (decided to go DSC off only recently), I guess I'm just now noticing/experiencing the tendency for square-setup'd E9x M3's to oversteer.

It'll serve to keep me on the edge constantly.

Plus, in MDM mode, I had to wiggle the steering wheel a lot in corners. So, perhaps Ricky is right about my steering input triggering some of the oversteers.

Anyhow, at some point, I may try staggered setup (265f/285r or 275f/285r).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
Might want to increase front psi or decrease rear psi.

Or try to get your turning done sooner....as in well before apex.

Great video and editing. Great track for practicing car control.
I'll definitely try that at the next track day -> at Buttonwillow at first weekend of June. It's a very technical track.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mthrice View Post
Nice driving Randall, perfect track for MDM off! How did your times compare with MDM on times?
Thanks Scott. Would've been good to have you there with Ryan and I. Didn't have lap timing yesterday. And, as I continue to get acclimated to DSC off tracking, I won't be getting lap timing/transponders throughout the summer and fall. I just want to focus on driving.

Anyhow though, I'm pretty sure it was slower than my previous time there (and, I expect it to be so for a while).


Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
Nicely done! Looks like a great track for pushing the limits and learning car control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porschefile View Post
Nice saves. It does look like it oversteers. That track looks to have a lot of runoff, wish we had that on the east coast. I guess VIR is closest in terms of runoff but still plenty of nice walls to hit.
Yeah, this track is universally liked, and track people like to drift there. I'll try to upload a full lap video soon.

With so much runoff areas and only around 20 drivers in attendance, it was the perfect track as I start my DSC-off journey. If it wasn't so far, I'd be there once a month...


Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchM3dreamer View Post
the good thing about these "oh shit" moments, is that you camera captures a lot less wind noise, letting us hear the tires screaming better
Indeed. Screeching tires are happy tires.
__________________

BRP CW13 1:58 | CVR CW 2:01 | CVR CCW 2:02 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP | JRZ RS Pro | Brembo BBK | Endless ME20 | Volk TE37 18x10.5 squared | NT01/TD

Last edited by OC3; 05-13-2012 at 10:50 PM.
OC3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 11:23 PM   #12
Elementary
If you ain't first, you're last!
 
Drives: M Drei
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: California

Posts: 112
iTrader: (0)

Looks like you're pinching your exit... less steering input and let the car track out more.
Elementary is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 11:28 PM   #13
Krozi
Deutsche Jung aus Kölle
 
Krozi's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoFla - Bonita Springs

Posts: 2,702
iTrader: (21)

Good stuff!
__________________

2008 E92 ///M3 Alpine White//Fox Red//6MT//
Florida Bimmer - Join us on FaceBook!
Krozi is offline   Germany
0
Reply With Quote
      05-13-2012, 11:50 PM   #14
kaiv
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 1,227
iTrader: (15)

Happy to see you're practicing your sideways skills
kaiv is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2012, 04:48 PM   #15
rhouck
Registered
 
rhouck's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 235
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
Thanks Scott. Would've been good to have you there with Ryan and I. Didn't have lap timing yesterday. And, as I continue to get acclimated to DSC off tracking, I won't be getting lap timing/transponders throughout the summer and fall. I just want to focus on driving.

Anyhow though, I'm pretty sure it was slower than my previous time there (and, I expect it to be so for a while).
You were probably consistent ~2:11 to 2:12 based on my timing (and I think this config is probably 1.5-2 seconds slower than CW from what I can tell, based on other people's PBs both ways).

Don't make it sound like you were that slow, going to make me feel bad
__________________
2009 Honda S2000 -- 1:59.726 Buttonwillow 13CW (N/A, OEM Aero, RS3); 1:55.792 Buttonwillow 13CW (S/C, aero, RS3)
2008 BMW e92 M3, 6MT, MR/FR, NT-03+M 18x10, JIC Coilovers
2007 Yamaha R6
M-drive retrofit! http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676825
rhouck is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2012, 05:21 PM   #16
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 ZCP Melbourne 6MT
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,268
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Good track for car control.

Staggered tires would fair better for you here.
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Öhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.

Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2012, 05:29 PM   #17
zsapphire7
Colonel
 
zsapphire7's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 e92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SF Bay Area

Posts: 2,288
iTrader: (21)

yea, pinching your exists will cause those spins. be really smooth as u get to maximum steering angle and if and when the car does let the rear out, you need to react much faster in counter steering.

The fact that this happened soo many times though suggests that you dont really have the feel yet for when the rear tires are beginning to slip, or when youre at maximum slip angle. Keep at what youre doing at chukawala till you can feel that perfect "slip" angle and basically hold it there.

In the case that the rears do come out, try to hold the throttle where it's at and not let off or add more throttle too. Helps make the car come back smoother
zsapphire7 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2012, 06:17 PM   #18
FormulaMMM
Captain
 
FormulaMMM's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: MI

Posts: 961
iTrader: (1)

Chuckled at turn 7 take 3. LMAO when you finally lost it. Entertaining vid..
FormulaMMM is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2012, 06:41 PM   #19
The HACK
Garland Operator 7G
 
The HACK's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2013 Veloster Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Jerry Brown's little tree-huggin' state

Posts: 3,146
iTrader: (1)

Actually, I'm going to say the OP has excellent feel of when the rears are stepping out. The fact that he caught it so many times is somewhat encouraging.

The "pinching" of the turn and the square tires are the last of his concerns, however. The reason for the spin and the multiple near spins is in the eyes. The fact he's making sudden hand movement on the ENTRY to a turn means he's not looking at where he's suppose to go. Most of the near spins happen because he's either way off-line or brought his vision back down because he's way off-line, and cranked the steering wheel in to try and get to the apex when it's already too late to get to the apex.

IMO, the DSC/MDM has made him look too good for too long, and he's already picked up enough bad habits to last a lifetime. This isn't a problem that staggered tires will fix, but a fundamental re-programming of the driver is needed.

Sorry if this comes off offensive. For all I know, OP may have been doing this on purpose and was just having "fun."
__________________
Quote:
No way I'd ever take my BMW to the track.
Quote:
Then why do you have $3,000 worth of suspension mods on your car?
Quote:
...
-Overheard at the last B****rfest.
The HACK is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2012, 09:56 PM   #20
sleepless
Private First Class
 
sleepless's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E90 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Redmond, WA

Posts: 116
iTrader: (0)

It doesn't take a lifetime to turn in correctly... Just some good coaching and seat time

It takes balls to post one's screw ups. Let's try to be supportive and constructive.
__________________
'11 E90, Cantrell brake ducts, Apex 18x10 ARC-8, 265/35 PSS, RS19 pads, -2.2 camber, CMS Lap Timer Pro
sleepless is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2012, 11:49 PM   #21
thorny
Captain
 
thorny's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 X5 E70, 2011 M3 E92
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 772
iTrader: (5)

Way to step it up Randall, way to step it up!!
thorny is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-14-2012, 11:57 PM   #22
OC3
Havin' a blast!
 
OC3's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 E92 Jerez Blk DCT ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 4,539
iTrader: (0)

It's all good. I appreciate the candor.

And, I know I need to fix a lot of things. But, that's what's making it fun again.

At the rate I track each month, I'm hoping that the MDM muscle memory will transition to DSC-off muscle memory sooner, rather than later.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Elementary View Post
Looks like you're pinching your exit... less steering input and let the car track out more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zsapphire7 View Post
yea, pinching your exists will cause those spins. be really smooth as u get to maximum steering angle and if and when the car does let the rear out, you need to react much faster in counter steering.

The fact that this happened soo many times though suggests that you dont really have the feel yet for when the rear tires are beginning to slip, or when youre at maximum slip angle. Keep at what youre doing at chukawala till you can feel that perfect "slip" angle and basically hold it there.
What exactly is pinching an exit?


Quote:
Originally Posted by zsapphire7 View Post
In the case that the rears do come out, try to hold the throttle where it's at and not let off or add more throttle too. Helps make the car come back smoother
This was my primary specific goal this past weekend - i.e. to train my foot to stay on throttle when the rear comes out and I counter. I'd say I need more practice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LM3 View Post
Chuckled at turn 7 take 3. LMAO when you finally lost it. Entertaining vid..



Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
Happy to see you're practicing your sideways skills
Some day, I hope to tandem drift with you, buddy. Some day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by thorny View Post
Way to step it up Randall, way to step it up!!
Thanks buddy. Are we gonna see you on June 2nd or 3rd at Buttonwillow? I'm registered for the 2nd.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
You were probably consistent ~2:11 to 2:12 based on my timing (and I think this config is probably 1.5-2 seconds slower than CW from what I can tell, based on other people's PBs both ways).

Don't make it sound like you were that slow, going to make me feel bad
Welp, you be right. I picked out what appear to be 2 of the quicker laps and they're 2:11~2:12. Here's the video.

.
__________________

BRP CW13 1:58 | CVR CW 2:01 | CVR CCW 2:02 | ACS 1:53 | WSIR 1:34
2013 E92 M3 Jerez Black DCT ZCP | JRZ RS Pro | Brembo BBK | Endless ME20 | Volk TE37 18x10.5 squared | NT01/TD
OC3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:03 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST