Vorsteiner E90 M3 Type II Diffuser Question.

[PutterMcGavin]

UPDATE: Yeah IND FTW (again...). According to them a FRP piece was never made so there IS CF under there!

I recently picked up a used Vorsteiner diffuser for my E90 that is painted gloss black. It is an original piece as it has the Vorsteiner sticker (albeit slightly painted over). The piece is really in great condition but the seller claimed that it was fiberglass. I'm thinking it is actually CF with at worst a fiberglass backing. I know, I know do your research before buying but it was such a steal I couldn't pass it up. and the guy was more than great about communicating and was legit...

I'm a bit confused though as I didn't think that Vorsteiner offered fiberglass parts and was a CF only group. I'd tried to get in touch with Vorsteiner via phone, email, etc. but unfortunately have not heard back.

If it IS CF I'm thinking about sanding down through the paint to the CF gel coat and polishing it up to match my front lip. It would be a PITA but worth it and if I mess anything up short of going through the gel coat I can always repaint it.

So, thoughts? Can anyone definitiely say whether or not Vorsteiner ever made a fiberglass E90 M3 rear diffuser? I'll try to get some pics but my camera broke this past weekend (awesome after only having it for 3 months for a $450 Canon S100...).

[the_works]

I'm pretty sure all of vrs parts are backed with fiberglass except for the new gts diffuser. Go ahead and sand through the paint and see what's lurking under there. If it looks like crap at least you prep it for paint.

[PutterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by the_works

I'm pretty sure all of vrs parts are backed with fiberglass except for the new gts diffuser. Go ahead and sand through the paint and see what's lurking under there. If it looks like crap at least you prep it for paint.

Thanks for the tips. Yeah I'm still perplexed as to what the material is. I'm pretty sure it is CF but not sure.

It is really a gamble for whatever it would cost to have the part repainted. Like I said the paint is actually in very good shape...

Anyone else know?

[THE TECH]

There is no gamble. Just wetsand and you will soon see what's under the paint and no harm will be done to the diffuser.

[PutterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

There is no gamble. Just wetsand and you will soon see what's under the paint and no harm will be done to the diffuser.

Ha true. The "gamble" is sanding down a perfectly good painted part to find nothing and have to pay to have it repainted OR sand it down to find CF and be happier.

I'm cheap

[THE TECH]

Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin

Ha true. The "gamble" is sanding down a perfectly good painted part to find nothing and have to pay to have it repainted OR sand it down to find CF and be happier.

I'm cheap

Here's the thing. If they made a full fiberglass version or not if you cannot confirm, you're not gonna know one way or the other until you sand since all of them should be fiberglass on the underside whether carbon or not. Now I'm not sure why someone would paint a carbon part black but that's another debate.

[THE TECH]

And after reading your original post, not sure why you would doubt the seller. Also, why not call Vorsteiner or a vendor of theirs and find out?

[PutterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Here's the thing. If they made a full fiberglass version or not if you cannot confirm, you're not gonna know one way or the other until you sand since all of them should be fiberglass on the underside whether carbon or not. Now I'm not sure why someone would paint a carbon part black but that's another debate.

I see what you're saying. If they ONLY made these in CF, I'm sanding. If they made BOTH CF and FG I have no way of knowing and my curiosity will kill me and make me sand it anyway...

Just looked a lot harder at the piece with a pretty powerful light and used some tweezers to pull a couple of "whiskers" that are black/grey. No brainer now. Looks like I'll be busting out the 1000, 1500 and 2000 this weekend.

Yeah not sure why it was painted black either but

Originally Posted by THE TECH

And after reading your original post, not sure why you would doubt the seller. Also, why not call Vorsteiner or a vendor of theirs and find out?

Not doubting him, just not sure he knew what he had. He bought it from a friend of a friend, etc.

Tried Vorsteiner twice and sent an email. Not hearing anything back for some reason. Will try a vendor.

Regardless thanks for the advice Tech!

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Here's the thing. If they made a full fiberglass version or not if you cannot confirm, you're not gonna know one way or the other until you sand since all of them should be fiberglass on the underside whether carbon or not. Now I'm not sure why someone would paint a carbon part black but that's another debate.

I paint them black for a lot reasons. The car has gloss black accents from the factory so everything matches. Carbon fiber does not match black. It's not a "real" carbon fiber part that should be showed off. It's a cheesy fiberglass part with one layer of CF fabric. Carbon fiber weave is ugly IMO. Carbon fiber yellows and looks greenish-yellow.

[PutterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by M3PO

I paint them black for a lot reasons. The car has gloss black accents from the factory so everything matches. Carbon fiber does not match black. It's not a "real" carbon fiber part that should be showed off. It's a cheesy fiberglass part with one layer of CF fabric. Carbon fiber weave is ugly IMO. Carbon fiber yellows and looks greenish-yellow.

I understand your opinion and can respect that. I already have a front CF lip and this would match pretty well. Whereas CF may not look good on black I think SG is one of the BEST colors for it. You get the matching shades and hues from the paint to match with the fiber AND the black to match the trim. Win-Win as it is subtle.

Also I took the part to a local shop and the guy took a minute to go through a SMALL part in the paint and there was "deep" CF. They're going to take off all the paint and shoot it with multiple coats of clear for me! He said too he would "prep" the gel coat he sands to as that is what yellows. Said it shouldn't be an issue in the future so I'm happy!

[av689]

http://www.vorsteiner.com/bmw/3serie...-diffuser2.php
Don't think they have ever produced in fiberglass.

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin

I understand your opinion and can respect that. I already have a front CF lip and this would match pretty well. Whereas CF may not look good on black I think SG is one of the BEST colors for it. You get the matching shades and hues from the paint to match with the fiber AND the black to match the trim. Win-Win as it is subtle.

Also I took the part to a local shop and the guy took a minute to go through a SMALL part in the paint and there was "deep" CF. They're going to take off all the paint and shoot it with multiple coats of clear for me! He said too he would "prep" the gel coat he sands to as that is what yellows. Said it shouldn't be an issue in the future so I'm happy!

No worries, I realize that most people on here disagree with me so there's no need to explain yourself. Tech said he didn't understand why so I took the opportunity to learn him real good!

[PapaKlix]

Originally Posted by M3PO

I paint them black for a lot reasons. The car has gloss black accents from the factory so everything matches. Carbon fiber does not match black. It's not a "real" carbon fiber part that should be showed off. It's a cheesy fiberglass part with one layer of CF fabric. Carbon fiber weave is ugly IMO. Carbon fiber yellows and looks greenish-yellow.

most of our cars also have a carbon fiber roof, which CF parts match. vorsteiner parts are not fiberglass with one layer of CF, my type 2 diffuser is all CF/resin. carbon fiber fabric itself also doesn't yellow, but cheap resin/lacquer can yellow. fortunately, vorsteiner doesn't use cheap resin and doesn't yellow.

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by PapaKlix

most of our cars also have a carbon fiber roof, which CF parts match. vorsteiner parts are not fiberglass with one layer of CF, my type 2 diffuser is all CF/resin. carbon fiber fabric itself also doesn't yellow, but cheap resin/lacquer can yellow. fortunately, vorsteiner doesn't use cheap resin and doesn't yellow.

I appreciate your response but even with the CF roof (which I don't have I might add), I still don't like the look personally. To each his own, just sharing my opinion here.

As far as Vorsteiner parts (let me just say that I do like them and they are of good quality), you are incorrect about their construction and yellowing. They are partly fiberglass and will yellow. I have seen pics on this site of a Vorsteiner diffuser that was cut apart and the use FG is clearly visible. I've also seen Vorsteiner parts that are yellowed from exhaust heat so they will yellow from UV eventually since the breakdown/degradation mechanism is the same.

Even if they weren't partly fiberglass, these parts aren't structural, resin infused/dry laid, autoclaved, high strength parts. They are cheap, weak, heavy (we are talking relative here), wet laid, cheesy versions of something that's meant to be functional on a race car. It's analogous to a $40 Pep Boys shopping cart wing on a FWD Civic. That's my point and opinion.

[PapaKlix]

Originally Posted by M3PO

I appreciate your response but even with the CF roof (which I don't have I might add), I still don't like the look personally. To each his own, just sharing my opinion here.

As far as Vorsteiner parts (let me just say that I do like them and they are of good quality), you are incorrect about their construction and yellowing. They are partly fiberglass and will yellow. I have seen pics on this site of a Vorsteiner diffuser that was cut apart and the use FG is clearly visible. I've also seen Vorsteiner parts that are yellowed from exhaust heat so they will yellow from UV eventually since the breakdown/degradation mechanism is the same.

Even if they weren't partly fiberglass, these parts aren't structural, resin infused/dry laid, autoclaved, high strength parts. They are cheap, weak, heavy (we are talking relative here), wet laid, cheesy versions of something that's meant to be functional on a race car. It's analogous to a $40 Pep Boys shopping cart wing on a FWD Civic. That's my point and opinion.

i understand and appreciate that people's tastes are different but if you think yellowing is caused by fiberglass you either think that fiberglass is present in the clear resin or that fiberglass behind the CF fabric somehow causes the resin to yellow. in either case, you're wrong. i'm not saying yellowing is impossible but it has nothing to do with the presence of fiberglass.

it's also amusing that you have such a strong opinion of the use of carbon fiber in parts where it doesn't serve an actual structural purpose when you have a non-functional front lip spoiler on your car. somehow that piece is not a "cheesy version of something that's meant to be functional on a race car"?

[M3PO]

Originally Posted by PapaKlix

i understand and appreciate that people's tastes are different but if you think yellowing is caused by fiberglass you either think that fiberglass is present in the clear resin or that fiberglass behind the CF fabric somehow causes the resin to yellow. in either case, you're wrong. i'm not saying yellowing is impossible but it has nothing to do with the presence of fiberglass.

it's also amusing that you have such a strong opinion of the use of carbon fiber in parts where it doesn't serve an actual structural purpose when you have a non-functional front lip spoiler on your car. somehow that piece is not a "cheesy version of something that's meant to be functional on a race car"?

Where did I say that fiberglass in the clear is what causes the yellowing? I clearly stated that heat is the cause of the yellowing that I have seen in Vorsteiner parts and that UV will also cause yellowing.

My non-functional lip spoiler is a subtle, gloss black, cosmetic piece. It's not difficult to understand the difference.

[PutterMcGavin]

Easy kids. Opinions are like assholes, we all have them

[PutterMcGavin]

Just an update. All sanded down and recleared! Already on the car too. Sucks I just had to send my Canon in for repair

[the_works]

Nice, looks brand new now with the reclear

[Vegas_Sirk]

You clear it your self or send it out?

[PutterMcGavin]

Originally Posted by Vegas_Sirk

You clear it your self or send it out?

I let a local shop take care of the sanding and clear coating. I didn't want to risk going through the gel coat and ruining the piece. The guy did a GREAT job!