BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Cosmetic/Visual (Exterior + Interior) Modifications
 
GTB Performance
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-03-2012, 08:52 AM   #1
PutterMcGavin
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 E90 M3, '89 E30 325i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 223
iTrader: (2)

Vorsteiner E90 M3 Type II Diffuser Question.

UPDATE: Yeah IND FTW (again...). According to them a FRP piece was never made so there IS CF under there!

I recently picked up a used Vorsteiner diffuser for my E90 that is painted gloss black. It is an original piece as it has the Vorsteiner sticker (albeit slightly painted over). The piece is really in great condition but the seller claimed that it was fiberglass. I'm thinking it is actually CF with at worst a fiberglass backing. I know, I know do your research before buying but it was such a steal I couldn't pass it up. and the guy was more than great about communicating and was legit...

I'm a bit confused though as I didn't think that Vorsteiner offered fiberglass parts and was a CF only group. I'd tried to get in touch with Vorsteiner via phone, email, etc. but unfortunately have not heard back.

If it IS CF I'm thinking about sanding down through the paint to the CF gel coat and polishing it up to match my front lip. It would be a PITA but worth it and if I mess anything up short of going through the gel coat I can always repaint it.

So, thoughts? Can anyone definitiely say whether or not Vorsteiner ever made a fiberglass E90 M3 rear diffuser? I'll try to get some pics but my camera broke this past weekend (awesome after only having it for 3 months for a $450 Canon S100...).
__________________

Last edited by PutterMcGavin; 05-04-2012 at 10:53 AM.
PutterMcGavin is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-03-2012, 09:51 AM   #2
the_works
BMW
 
the_works's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Twin Cities

Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)

I'm pretty sure all of vrs parts are backed with fiberglass except for the new gts diffuser. Go ahead and sand through the paint and see what's lurking under there. If it looks like crap at least you prep it for paint.
the_works is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 10:31 AM   #3
PutterMcGavin
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 E90 M3, '89 E30 325i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 223
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_works View Post
I'm pretty sure all of vrs parts are backed with fiberglass except for the new gts diffuser. Go ahead and sand through the paint and see what's lurking under there. If it looks like crap at least you prep it for paint.
Thanks for the tips. Yeah I'm still perplexed as to what the material is. I'm pretty sure it is CF but not sure.

It is really a gamble for whatever it would cost to have the part repainted. Like I said the paint is actually in very good shape...

Anyone else know?
__________________
PutterMcGavin is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 10:36 AM   #4
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 13,065
iTrader: (44)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
There is no gamble. Just wetsand and you will soon see what's under the paint and no harm will be done to the diffuser.
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 10:39 AM   #5
PutterMcGavin
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 E90 M3, '89 E30 325i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 223
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
There is no gamble. Just wetsand and you will soon see what's under the paint and no harm will be done to the diffuser.
Ha true. The "gamble" is sanding down a perfectly good painted part to find nothing and have to pay to have it repainted OR sand it down to find CF and be happier.

I'm cheap
__________________
PutterMcGavin is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 10:42 AM   #6
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 13,065
iTrader: (44)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
Quote:
Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin View Post
Ha true. The "gamble" is sanding down a perfectly good painted part to find nothing and have to pay to have it repainted OR sand it down to find CF and be happier.

I'm cheap
Here's the thing. If they made a full fiberglass version or not if you cannot confirm, you're not gonna know one way or the other until you sand since all of them should be fiberglass on the underside whether carbon or not. Now I'm not sure why someone would paint a carbon part black but that's another debate.
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 10:46 AM   #7
THE TECH
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
THE TECH's Avatar
 
Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Kansas

Posts: 13,065
iTrader: (44)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to THE TECH Send a message via Skype™ to THE TECH
And after reading your original post, not sure why you would doubt the seller. Also, why not call Vorsteiner or a vendor of theirs and find out?
__________________
THE TECH is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 10:48 AM   #8
PutterMcGavin
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 E90 M3, '89 E30 325i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 223
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
Here's the thing. If they made a full fiberglass version or not if you cannot confirm, you're not gonna know one way or the other until you sand since all of them should be fiberglass on the underside whether carbon or not. Now I'm not sure why someone would paint a carbon part black but that's another debate.
I see what you're saying. If they ONLY made these in CF, I'm sanding. If they made BOTH CF and FG I have no way of knowing and my curiosity will kill me and make me sand it anyway...

Just looked a lot harder at the piece with a pretty powerful light and used some tweezers to pull a couple of "whiskers" that are black/grey. No brainer now. Looks like I'll be busting out the 1000, 1500 and 2000 this weekend.

Yeah not sure why it was painted black either but


Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
And after reading your original post, not sure why you would doubt the seller. Also, why not call Vorsteiner or a vendor of theirs and find out?
Not doubting him, just not sure he knew what he had. He bought it from a friend of a friend, etc.

Tried Vorsteiner twice and sent an email. Not hearing anything back for some reason. Will try a vendor.

Regardless thanks for the advice Tech!
__________________
PutterMcGavin is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 11:59 AM   #9
M3PO
Colonel
 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
Here's the thing. If they made a full fiberglass version or not if you cannot confirm, you're not gonna know one way or the other until you sand since all of them should be fiberglass on the underside whether carbon or not. Now I'm not sure why someone would paint a carbon part black but that's another debate.
I paint them black for a lot reasons. The car has gloss black accents from the factory so everything matches. Carbon fiber does not match black. It's not a "real" carbon fiber part that should be showed off. It's a cheesy fiberglass part with one layer of CF fabric. Carbon fiber weave is ugly IMO. Carbon fiber yellows and looks greenish-yellow.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
M3PO is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 12:59 PM   #10
PutterMcGavin
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 E90 M3, '89 E30 325i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 223
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I paint them black for a lot reasons. The car has gloss black accents from the factory so everything matches. Carbon fiber does not match black. It's not a "real" carbon fiber part that should be showed off. It's a cheesy fiberglass part with one layer of CF fabric. Carbon fiber weave is ugly IMO. Carbon fiber yellows and looks greenish-yellow.
I understand your opinion and can respect that. I already have a front CF lip and this would match pretty well. Whereas CF may not look good on black I think SG is one of the BEST colors for it. You get the matching shades and hues from the paint to match with the fiber AND the black to match the trim. Win-Win as it is subtle.

Also I took the part to a local shop and the guy took a minute to go through a SMALL part in the paint and there was "deep" CF. They're going to take off all the paint and shoot it with multiple coats of clear for me! He said too he would "prep" the gel coat he sands to as that is what yellows. Said it shouldn't be an issue in the future so I'm happy!
__________________

Last edited by PutterMcGavin; 05-04-2012 at 01:54 PM.
PutterMcGavin is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 01:27 PM   #11
av689
Private
 
Drives: ESBII F30 328xi
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Moscow

Posts: 62
iTrader: (0)

http://www.vorsteiner.com/bmw/3serie...-diffuser2.php
Don't think they have ever produced in fiberglass.
av689 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 03:18 PM   #12
M3PO
Colonel
 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PutterMcGavin View Post
I understand your opinion and can respect that. I already have a front CF lip and this would match pretty well. Whereas CF may not look good on black I think SG is one of the BEST colors for it. You get the matching shades and hues from the paint to match with the fiber AND the black to match the trim. Win-Win as it is subtle.

Also I took the part to a local shop and the guy took a minute to go through a SMALL part in the paint and there was "deep" CF. They're going to take off all the paint and shoot it with multiple coats of clear for me! He said too he would "prep" the gel coat he sands to as that is what yellows. Said it shouldn't be an issue in the future so I'm happy!
No worries, I realize that most people on here disagree with me so there's no need to explain yourself. Tech said he didn't understand why so I took the opportunity to learn him real good!
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
M3PO is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-04-2012, 10:11 PM   #13
PapaKlix
Private
 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: massachusetts

Posts: 91
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I paint them black for a lot reasons. The car has gloss black accents from the factory so everything matches. Carbon fiber does not match black. It's not a "real" carbon fiber part that should be showed off. It's a cheesy fiberglass part with one layer of CF fabric. Carbon fiber weave is ugly IMO. Carbon fiber yellows and looks greenish-yellow.
most of our cars also have a carbon fiber roof, which CF parts match. vorsteiner parts are not fiberglass with one layer of CF, my type 2 diffuser is all CF/resin. carbon fiber fabric itself also doesn't yellow, but cheap resin/lacquer can yellow. fortunately, vorsteiner doesn't use cheap resin and doesn't yellow.
PapaKlix is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #14
M3PO
Colonel
 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaKlix View Post
most of our cars also have a carbon fiber roof, which CF parts match. vorsteiner parts are not fiberglass with one layer of CF, my type 2 diffuser is all CF/resin. carbon fiber fabric itself also doesn't yellow, but cheap resin/lacquer can yellow. fortunately, vorsteiner doesn't use cheap resin and doesn't yellow.
I appreciate your response but even with the CF roof (which I don't have I might add), I still don't like the look personally. To each his own, just sharing my opinion here.

As far as Vorsteiner parts (let me just say that I do like them and they are of good quality), you are incorrect about their construction and yellowing. They are partly fiberglass and will yellow. I have seen pics on this site of a Vorsteiner diffuser that was cut apart and the use FG is clearly visible. I've also seen Vorsteiner parts that are yellowed from exhaust heat so they will yellow from UV eventually since the breakdown/degradation mechanism is the same.

Even if they weren't partly fiberglass, these parts aren't structural, resin infused/dry laid, autoclaved, high strength parts. They are cheap, weak, heavy (we are talking relative here), wet laid, cheesy versions of something that's meant to be functional on a race car. It's analogous to a $40 Pep Boys shopping cart wing on a FWD Civic. That's my point and opinion.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
M3PO is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2012, 08:33 PM   #15
PapaKlix
Private
 
Drives: e92 m3
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: massachusetts

Posts: 91
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I appreciate your response but even with the CF roof (which I don't have I might add), I still don't like the look personally. To each his own, just sharing my opinion here.

As far as Vorsteiner parts (let me just say that I do like them and they are of good quality), you are incorrect about their construction and yellowing. They are partly fiberglass and will yellow. I have seen pics on this site of a Vorsteiner diffuser that was cut apart and the use FG is clearly visible. I've also seen Vorsteiner parts that are yellowed from exhaust heat so they will yellow from UV eventually since the breakdown/degradation mechanism is the same.

Even if they weren't partly fiberglass, these parts aren't structural, resin infused/dry laid, autoclaved, high strength parts. They are cheap, weak, heavy (we are talking relative here), wet laid, cheesy versions of something that's meant to be functional on a race car. It's analogous to a $40 Pep Boys shopping cart wing on a FWD Civic. That's my point and opinion.
i understand and appreciate that people's tastes are different but if you think yellowing is caused by fiberglass you either think that fiberglass is present in the clear resin or that fiberglass behind the CF fabric somehow causes the resin to yellow. in either case, you're wrong. i'm not saying yellowing is impossible but it has nothing to do with the presence of fiberglass.

it's also amusing that you have such a strong opinion of the use of carbon fiber in parts where it doesn't serve an actual structural purpose when you have a non-functional front lip spoiler on your car. somehow that piece is not a "cheesy version of something that's meant to be functional on a race car"?
PapaKlix is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #16
M3PO
Colonel
 
M3PO's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 IB E92
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: OC

Posts: 2,721
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaKlix View Post
i understand and appreciate that people's tastes are different but if you think yellowing is caused by fiberglass you either think that fiberglass is present in the clear resin or that fiberglass behind the CF fabric somehow causes the resin to yellow. in either case, you're wrong. i'm not saying yellowing is impossible but it has nothing to do with the presence of fiberglass.

it's also amusing that you have such a strong opinion of the use of carbon fiber in parts where it doesn't serve an actual structural purpose when you have a non-functional front lip spoiler on your car. somehow that piece is not a "cheesy version of something that's meant to be functional on a race car"?
Where did I say that fiberglass in the clear is what causes the yellowing? I clearly stated that heat is the cause of the yellowing that I have seen in Vorsteiner parts and that UV will also cause yellowing.

My non-functional lip spoiler is a subtle, gloss black, cosmetic piece. It's not difficult to understand the difference.
__________________
2008 IB E92 M3| BBS | KW | Arkym | Platte Forme A.G. | Active Autowerke | K&N | Fabspeed | Dinan | Evolve-R
M3PO is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-08-2012, 01:45 PM   #17
PutterMcGavin
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 E90 M3, '89 E30 325i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 223
iTrader: (2)

Easy kids. Opinions are like assholes, we all have them
__________________
PutterMcGavin is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-10-2012, 08:24 AM   #18
PutterMcGavin
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 E90 M3, '89 E30 325i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 223
iTrader: (2)

Just an update. All sanded down and recleared! Already on the car too. Sucks I just had to send my Canon in for repair





__________________
PutterMcGavin is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-10-2012, 10:17 AM   #19
the_works
BMW
 
the_works's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW M3 E92
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Twin Cities

Posts: 51
iTrader: (0)

Nice, looks brand new now with the reclear
the_works is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-11-2012, 03:49 PM   #20
Vegas_Sirk
Its All About The Offset
 
Vegas_Sirk's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Where you come to vacation and go home on probation: Vegas

Posts: 3,544
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
Send a message via AIM to Vegas_Sirk
You clear it your self or send it out?
__________________

AKA M3This (changed my user name ) | M3 Build Thread | E61 Build Thread
Vegas_Sirk is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-11-2012, 06:13 PM   #21
PutterMcGavin
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: '09 E90 M3, '89 E30 325i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Charleston, SC

Posts: 223
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vegas_Sirk View Post
You clear it your self or send it out?
I let a local shop take care of the sanding and clear coating. I didn't want to risk going through the gel coat and ruining the piece. The guy did a GREAT job!
__________________
PutterMcGavin is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:35 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST