Any disadvantage to running negative Camber on Street car?

ExclusivSTS · 05-08-2012, 12:08 PM

Hey what's up Wheel Guru's!

Curious to know if there is any disadvantage to running negative camber on a street car? There is the obvious which is pre-mature tire wear, aside from that are there any other disadvantages? Is handling decreased? Straight line feel off? Just curious because I've never run negative camber, but seems to be popular amongst M3 owners.

Thanks in advance!

THE TECH · 05-08-2012, 12:18 PM

Guess it would depend how much. Handling should be increased. Probably won't notice any straight line changes.

ExclusivSTS · 05-08-2012, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by THE TECH

Guess it would depend how much. Handling should be increased. Probably won't notice any straight line changes.

On the particular setup: -2.50 (F), -2.00 (R)

LateBraking · 05-08-2012, 12:27 PM

You'll tramline a bit more on really poor road surfaces, it gets particularly bad on one freeway heading to one of my local tracks. I wouldn't call it so dangerous as to be threatening, but you'll want to stay focus while driving. I run -3 in the front and similar in the rear.

Porschefile · 05-08-2012, 12:37 PM

Depending on how much you run it can negatively impact tire wear by wearing out the inside of the tires. I don't know how much these cars can run without wearing out the insides. Latebraking do you run -3.0 street and track without bad wear?

LateBraking · 05-08-2012, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porschefile

Depending on how much you run it can negatively impact tire wear by wearing out the inside of the tires. I don't know how much these cars can run without wearing out the insides. Latebraking do you run -3.0 street and track without bad wear?

I don't change my camber around, but it does kill tires on the inside a bit. OP already stated in his 1st post that he is aware of tire life effects though. I daily drive a Lexus GS SUV though so I'm ok.

aus · 05-08-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ExclusivSTS

On the particular setup: -2.50 (F), -2.00 (R)

DAMN!! That's a lot.
One option is to change the tire out side to side as they're wearing out. Not just switch wheels side to side. It'll help even it out.

.

tibra1 · 05-08-2012, 03:28 PM

-1.5 is all I would do on the street..otherwise you may experience more tramlining and accelerated tire wear ESPECIALLY if you do alot of straight highway driving

radiantm3 · 05-08-2012, 03:53 PM

Yea I noticed a huge increase in tramlining when I had the most negative camber possible on a stock setup (pins pulled).

**ben@tirerack** · 05-09-2012, 08:33 AM

A little bit of negative camber is good, but race-car settings on the street can have downsides. The early wear to the inside edges of the tires happens because in a straight line, the tire is (naturally) resting more on the inner shoulder.

Leaning on the edge is not the optimum contact patch for the tire, so there can be some tradeoff in straight-line traction. For a track car the gain in corner speeds will offset any loss in straight line grip, but for a street car the loss of stoplight launch ability and panic stop efficiency may not be worth it beyond a certain point.

thorny · 05-09-2012, 01:12 PM

I run negative 3 up front and 2.1 rear. I didnt see huge difference from stock in around town driving when going straight or on the highway. I dont drive M3 daily. I havent run the alignment enough to comment on tire wear.

My tires are worn from 4 track days, especially both left tires from clockwise driving in Buttonwillow. Interesting that my OEM Contis are worn mostly in the middle to a degree when the sides are higher by a couple of millimeters, I'll post a picture. I did 3 events with stock suspension and stock alignment and 1 last event with KW CS and track alignment. But I noticed this tire wear before. Tire pressure 38-40 hot

gsrbri · 05-09-2012, 01:39 PM

Were you able to dial-in three degrees of negative camber w/the stock suspension? I have a comp package suspension and am wondering what the range of alignment will be.

I plan to add some negative camber due to my frequent track days (6-8 days per season - I'm in New England, so usually only spring/summer/fall) and was wondering how much I'll be able to add. -3 full degrees seems high for a street driven car. I was thinking more like -2 or -2.5 front and around the same rear.

Have you checked your tire temperatures w/a pyrometer at the track? I run around 38 psi (max) all around and I'm finding the outside edges are running about ten degrees hotter than the center/inside edge. My Michelin guide tells me that is because of alignment.

So, we'll see. I'll post my results.

-Brian

05-08-2012, 12:08 PM	#1
ExclusivSTS Lieutenant Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New York City Posts: 566 iTrader: (3)	Any disadvantage to running negative Camber on Street car? Hey what's up Wheel Guru's! Curious to know if there is any disadvantage to running negative camber on a street car? There is the obvious which is pre-mature tire wear, aside from that are there any other disadvantages? Is handling decreased? Straight line feel off? Just curious because I've never run negative camber, but seems to be popular amongst M3 owners. Thanks in advance!
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05-08-2012, 12:18 PM	#2
THE TECH BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: BPMsport 2012 E92 M3 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Kansas Posts: 11,884 iTrader: (39)	Guess it would depend how much. Handling should be increased. Probably won't notice any straight line changes. __________________ Check us out on Facebook at BPMsportLabs

05-08-2012, 12:27 PM	#4
LateBraking BMW and reliability....haha.... Drives: Something reliable. Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Pacific Standard Time Posts: 3,877 iTrader: (27)	You'll tramline a bit more on really poor road surfaces, it gets particularly bad on one freeway heading to one of my local tracks. I wouldn't call it so dangerous as to be threatening, but you'll want to stay focus while driving. I run -3 in the front and similar in the rear. __________________ "As I lay rubber down the street, I pray for traction I can keep. But If I spin and begin to slide, please dear God protect my ride! Amen." ― ONEBADWS6, LS1TECH.com Member

05-08-2012, 03:53 PM	#9
radiantm3 AWD...training wheels for RWD Drives: 11 E92 M3, 13 F25 X3 xdrive35i Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 3,137 iTrader: (5) Garage List 2011 E92 M3 [4.73] 2013 BMW X3 xdrive35 [4.50]	Yea I noticed a huge increase in tramlining when I had the most negative camber possible on a stock setup (pins pulled). __________________ 2011.5 E92 M3 6MT / 45,000+ miles / 3400lbs with no driver, half tank / M3 GTS Aero, Rear Seat Delete, Half Cage • Schroth 6 Point Harness • Recaro Profi • 18" BBS FI / 18" TE37SL Black Edition • Ohlins RT • Vorshlag Camber Plates • Brembo 380GT • Endless Pads • Akrapovic Evo • RD Sport Sways • ESS Tune • Supercharger Delete (1:42 @ Laguna Seca, 2:09 @ Thunderhill, 1:56 @ Infineon)

05-09-2012, 08:33 AM	#10
ben@tirerack M3Post Supporting Vendor Drives: 740i Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Bend, IN Posts: 726 iTrader: (0)	A little bit of negative camber is good, but race-car settings on the street can have downsides. The early wear to the inside edges of the tires happens because in a straight line, the tire is (naturally) resting more on the inner shoulder. Leaning on the edge is not the optimum contact patch for the tire, so there can be some tradeoff in straight-line traction. For a track car the gain in corner speeds will offset any loss in straight line grip, but for a street car the loss of stoplight launch ability and panic stop efficiency may not be worth it beyond a certain point. __________________ _______________________________________________ To credit the forum, click through one of the banners in my signature and the top of the page, or call me direct at 877.522.8473 ext 660. Email:ben@tirerack.com

05-08-2012, 12:37 PM	#5
Porschefile Major Drives: E92 M3 DCT, E46, Formula Mazda Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,040 iTrader: (5)	Depending on how much you run it can negatively impact tire wear by wearing out the inside of the tires. I don't know how much these cars can run without wearing out the insides. Latebraking do you run -3.0 street and track without bad wear?

05-08-2012, 03:28 PM	#8
tibra1 Banned Drives: 2011 ZCP M3 - 2007 335i crashd Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 6,779 iTrader: (4)	-1.5 is all I would do on the street..otherwise you may experience more tramlining and accelerated tire wear ESPECIALLY if you do alot of straight highway driving

05-09-2012, 01:12 PM	#11
thorny Lieutenant Drives: 2007 X5 E70, 2011 M3 E92 Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Bakersfield, CA Posts: 539 iTrader: (4)	I run negative 3 up front and 2.1 rear. I didnt see huge difference from stock in around town driving when going straight or on the highway. I dont drive M3 daily. I havent run the alignment enough to comment on tire wear. My tires are worn from 4 track days, especially both left tires from clockwise driving in Buttonwillow. Interesting that my OEM Contis are worn mostly in the middle to a degree when the sides are higher by a couple of millimeters, I'll post a picture. I did 3 events with stock suspension and stock alignment and 1 last event with KW CS and track alignment. But I noticed this tire wear before. Tire pressure 38-40 hot

05-09-2012, 01:39 PM	#12
gsrbri Enlisted Member Drives: E90 M3 Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 41 iTrader: (0)	Neg Camber Were you able to dial-in three degrees of negative camber w/the stock suspension? I have a comp package suspension and am wondering what the range of alignment will be. I plan to add some negative camber due to my frequent track days (6-8 days per season - I'm in New England, so usually only spring/summer/fall) and was wondering how much I'll be able to add. -3 full degrees seems high for a street driven car. I was thinking more like -2 or -2.5 front and around the same rear. Have you checked your tire temperatures w/a pyrometer at the track? I run around 38 psi (max) all around and I'm finding the outside edges are running about ten degrees hotter than the center/inside edge. My Michelin guide tells me that is because of alignment. So, we'll see. I'll post my results. -Brian

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