BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > M3 vs....
 
OneEighty
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-17-2012, 12:36 PM   #67
ss134
Brigadier General
ss134's Avatar
United Kingdom
68
Rep
3,796
Posts

 
Drives: ...a hard bargain...
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Germany/UK

iTrader: (1)

Offer these 2 cars to any European and there would only be one outcome everytime but if you prefer the CTS then i don't understand the problem? Just do the trade.
__________________
2014 AW F80 M3 DCT
2011 AW E90 M3 DCT - Sold
2010 JZB E90 M3 DCT - Sold
2009 6MT E90 LCI 335i M -Sport - Sold
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 02:01 PM   #68
Veritable
Second Lieutenant
23
Rep
203
Posts

 
Drives: '13 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW Fanatic View Post
'- Everything is coming out of my own pocket, same as my previous BMWs'

Who gives a f*ck?
Yeah, sorry about that. That statement there was for people to know that the financial decision is completely mine. It's just that I'm taking a LOT of stock in other people's feelings on the issue... perhaps too much so. Ultimately, I gave them the impression that when it comes to cars, I put performance over family consensus.

Anyways, the car is still available, listed price has dropped once already. Of course, my own car is also depreciating daily, so we'll call it a toss-up still.

It actually wasn't hard to convince my friends, who understand the merits of a CTS-V. As for non-automotive-inclined family members, it's been a tough fight. Now it's down to "you're well beyond old enough to make your own decisions, so do it if you want, but we're still not happy about it, because all these cars swapping can't be good for your finances." Getting there....
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 02:14 PM   #69
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritable View Post

Anyways, the car is still available, listed price has dropped once already. Of course, my own car is also depreciating daily, so we'll call it a toss-up still.
Did you actually drive it yet? On paper, they might seem similar, but CTS-V and M3 are night and day to drive, in my experience.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 02:26 PM   #70
Biff Grissel
killinit.com
Biff Grissel's Avatar
United_States
7
Rep
513
Posts

 
Drives: fun
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: west coast

iTrader: (0)

do what u want, drive what u want and enjoy. its not ur moms car. and as far as it being a wagon, thats uniqe and very useful. and performanc wise u will not be dissapointed.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 02:55 PM   #71
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 11|Ridge 1:52:24|Pacific 1:35:72
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
172
Rep
12,977
Posts

 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Cannot lose to girlfriend in race. Life failure.
Couldn't ever happen. I could put her in a dct m3 and run her in a civic and smoke her.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW exhaust|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 03:16 PM   #72
JulieDriving
Female driving enthusiast :P
JulieDriving's Avatar
30
Rep
2,308
Posts

 
Drives: Bimmer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
Did you actually drive it yet? On paper, they might seem similar, but CTS-V and M3 are night and day to drive, in my experience.

+ 1. I know they say they want you to sign a contract with an escape clause should you not like the car after the test drive, but you should push for a test drive first. You may not like it anywhere near as much as you think after you drive it.
__________________
2013 M3 coupe (Azurite Black, Black, Piano Black)
+ miata nut (2 miatas) + Mk6 GTI 5-door hatch (our mini-SUV )
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 03:44 PM   #73
Veritable
Second Lieutenant
23
Rep
203
Posts

 
Drives: '13 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieDriving View Post
+ 1. I know they say they want you to sign a contract with an escape clause should you not like the car after the test drive, but you should push for a test drive first. You may not like it anywhere near as much as you think after you drive it.
It was actually a test drive THEN sign the contract. Their offer, not mine. The prerequisite was that I had to get everything squared away first... financing and an actual commitment to buy based on test drive result.

The former was done... the latter wasn't there. I was worried that if I actually liked it, I would have brought it home... and then have to go through a bit of, ahh, "uncomfortable-ness" as I try to explain myself to the non-automotive-minded masses.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 04:06 PM   #74
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritable View Post
It was actually a test drive THEN sign the contract. Their offer, not mine. The prerequisite was that I had to get everything squared away first... financing and an actual commitment to buy based on test drive result.

The former was done... the latter wasn't there. I was worried that if I actually liked it, I would have brought it home... and then have to go through a bit of, ahh, "uncomfortable-ness" as I try to explain myself to the non-automotive-minded masses.
Herein lies the crux of the entire thread/discussion.

Until you spend at least an hour in the car (hell they should probably let you take it home overnight), then you should really not be considering buying one. You may end up loving it, and that is fine. But I thought the CTS-V Wagon was a dud. I drove the Coupe, too. Both Black Diamond editions. The inside was a gaudy mess (yellow seats + chrome dials + burled wood = yuck), and the auto transmission was ridiculous. It literally felt like I was driving a school bus. Sure, a school bus that could go fast on the highway! But "tossable" would not be a word anyone would use. I could not figure out how to defeat the very aggressive traction control. When they let you test drive, be sure and ask them how to turn it off, or down some.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 04:17 PM   #75
swanson
Convicted Felon
swanson's Avatar
31
Rep
1,601
Posts

 
Drives: chariot
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

There is a TC button on the steering wheel
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 04:25 PM   #76
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swanson View Post
There is a TC button on the steering wheel
I don't know how I missed that, but thanks. Obviously it was my first time in the car, and I was by myself. There was no GM rep or salesperson with me. I probably should have asked beforehand, but live and learn.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 04:26 PM   #77
swanson
Convicted Felon
swanson's Avatar
31
Rep
1,601
Posts

 
Drives: chariot
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

It took me awhile to find it too. I initially thought it would be in the dash, but I think it was really smart to put it on the steering wheel.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 05:56 PM   #78
Kasé Zomé
Captain
Kasé Zomé's Avatar
10
Rep
787
Posts

 
Drives: faster than my demons can fly
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [4.50]
I was in the same boat as the OP. A couple of weeks ago I took home a brand new 2012 CTS-V wagon (fully loaded Diamond Black Edition w/ a 6sp manual) for 5 hours. Drove it around and hit a few freeway onramps and generally got a good feel for the car. Here are my thoughts on the car in no particular order:

Drivetrain was impressive primarily because it was torquey and getting into 2nd gear wasn't as much of a chore as it is on my M3. I was surprised silly when I hit the rev limiter in 3rd gear - I didn't expect a pushrod V8 to be that smooth up top. That motor didn't seem like it was running out of breath at all.

Power wasn't as overwhelming as I expected 556hp to be but that could be because it was a new car and the motor hasn't loosened up yet. And the fact that it was a very quiet car.

Handling for something of this size and weight was very impressive but I like the steering of my M3 better - even if the weight might feel artificial at times. I felt the CTS-V's steering to be a little too light for my tastes.

I liked the switch gear and overall fit and finish on my M3 much better. CTS-V stereo was good but navi didn't have the "follow the arrow" mode that I like to use. Some of the buttons in the center console weren't perfectly lined up either and just generally felt a little cheap.

Brakes were pretty damn good.

Clutch felt 3x heavier than my M3's. Getting back into the M3 I slammed my foot down on the clutch so hard I thought I broke it.

I loved the power operated rear hatch door and the cooling function of the front Recaros. Main problem I had with the Recaros was that I couldn't get the side bolsters to hug me as tightly as my M3 seats. That meant that I had to use my legs to stabilize myself a bit more in the hard corners.

The deal they offered me was a straight trade for my M3 with the same payments I'm currently making on the M3. The difference was that I had a new 60 month loan so I was basically writing off my prior 11 months of M3 payments as a lease.

After having the car for 5 hours, I returned it and got back into my M3 and it just felt so much more precise. I'm thinking broad sword vs. katana. Both will get the job done but they go about it a bit differently. Bottom line is that while I liked the car a lot, I realized that I was more in love with the concept of a high HP, capable handling wagon than I was in love with the CTS-V itself.

I'm sticking with the M3.

And hopefully BMW will come out with a F10 M5 Estate in 5 - 6 years when I can afford one.

Took it home to test fit it in my garage...
__________________
1998 M3/4/5
2011 E90 6MT ZCP Slicktop (SOLD)

Last edited by Kasé Zomé; 05-17-2012 at 06:05 PM.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 08:56 PM   #79
JulieDriving
Female driving enthusiast :P
JulieDriving's Avatar
30
Rep
2,308
Posts

 
Drives: Bimmer
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritable View Post
It was actually a test drive THEN sign the contract. Their offer, not mine. The prerequisite was that I had to get everything squared away first... financing and an actual commitment to buy based on test drive result.

The former was done... the latter wasn't there. I was worried that if I actually liked it, I would have brought it home... and then have to go through a bit of, ahh, "uncomfortable-ness" as I try to explain myself to the non-automotive-minded masses.
Oh, that's a little better, but I guess I'm still pushing you () to test drive - or rather, ask for an extended test drive like SamS suggested, before putting more thought into it.

I'm only saying it because I've really liked cars on paper myself and then discovered on the test drive "Meh..." So that was a waste of time. I test drive stuff first now, to narrow down the list of what I obsess over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasé Zomé View Post
I was in the same boat as the OP. A couple of weeks ago I took home a brand new 2012 CTS-V wagon (fully loaded Diamond Black Edition w/ a 6sp manual) for 5 hours. Drove it around and hit a few freeway onramps and generally got a good feel for the car. Here are my thoughts on the car in no particular order:

Drivetrain was impressive primarily because it was torquey and getting into 2nd gear wasn't as much of a chore as it is on my M3. I was surprised silly when I hit the rev limiter in 3rd gear - I didn't expect a pushrod V8 to be that smooth up top. That motor didn't seem like it was running out of breath at all.

Power wasn't as overwhelming as I expected 556hp to be but that could be because it was a new car and the motor hasn't loosened up yet. And the fact that it was a very quiet car.

Handling for something of this size and weight was very impressive but I like the steering of my M3 better - even if the weight might feel artificial at times. I felt the CTS-V's steering to be a little too light for my tastes.

I liked the switch gear and overall fit and finish on my M3 much better. CTS-V stereo was good but navi didn't have the "follow the arrow" mode that I like to use. Some of the buttons in the center console weren't perfectly lined up either and just generally felt a little cheap.

Brakes were pretty damn good.

Clutch felt 3x heavier than my M3's. Getting back into the M3 I slammed my foot down on the clutch so hard I thought I broke it.

I loved the power operated rear hatch door and the cooling function of the front Recaros. Main problem I had with the Recaros was that I couldn't get the side bolsters to hug me as tightly as my M3 seats. That meant that I had to use my legs to stabilize myself a bit more in the hard corners.

The deal they offered me was a straight trade for my M3 with the same payments I'm currently making on the M3. The difference was that I had a new 60 month loan so I was basically writing off my prior 11 months of M3 payments as a lease.

After having the car for 5 hours, I returned it and got back into my M3 and it just felt so much more precise. I'm thinking broad sword vs. katana. Both will get the job done but they go about it a bit differently. Bottom line is that while I liked the car a lot, I realized that I was more in love with the concept of a high HP, capable handling wagon than I was in love with the CTS-V itself.

I'm sticking with the M3.

And hopefully BMW will come out with a F10 M5 Estate in 5 - 6 years when I can afford one.

Took it home to test fit it in my garage...
Good review.
__________________
2013 M3 coupe (Azurite Black, Black, Piano Black)
+ miata nut (2 miatas) + Mk6 GTI 5-door hatch (our mini-SUV )
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 10:15 PM   #80
Veritable
Second Lieutenant
23
Rep
203
Posts

 
Drives: '13 Cadillac CTS-V Sedan 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasé Zomé View Post
*snip*
Awesome write-up. Thanks so much for that.

Honestly your write-up sounds exactly what I expected... slightly more power (LOTS more power?) with slightly less handling. Slightly worse interior build quality but slightly more gadgets. Personally I have my "fun" on weekend road trips driving on twisty rural highways (Julie knows well ), no auto-x and no road course track days, so I figure the compromises are ok by me.

Also, as opposed to restarting a 60mos loan in your case, I'm actually turning a 52mos loan into a 48mos loan. I pay slightly more per month but finish 4 months sooner, so I actually save about $3k over the remaining term (not including what I've already paid to BMW in the 8mos, of course... but I'm driving the car). If it happens, I'm also turning 3yrs 4mos full warranty into 4yrs full warranty and 5yrs powertrain warranty.

Finally, same as you, MY GARAGE is a point of concern, lol. With my M3 inside there is about 12-14in of clearance. The CTS-V Wagon is 10in longer, so I'm not even sure if the doors will close. Not quite sure about driving it home, though, as that car still has 12km on the clock and the dealership is 40km away.....
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 10:28 PM   #81
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Veritable View Post
Awesome write-up. Thanks so much for that.

Honestly your write-up sounds exactly what I expected... slightly more power (LOTS more power?) with slightly less handling. Slightly worse interior build quality but slightly more gadgets. Personally I have my "fun" on weekend road trips driving on twisty rural highways (Julie knows well ), no auto-x and no road course track days, so I figure the compromises are ok by me.

Also, as opposed to restarting a 60mos loan in your case, I'm actually turning a 52mos loan into a 48mos loan. I pay slightly more per month but finish 4 months sooner, so I actually save about $3k over the remaining term (not including what I've already paid to BMW in the 8mos, of course... but I'm driving the car). If it happens, I'm also turning 3yrs 4mos full warranty into 4yrs full warranty and 5yrs powertrain warranty.

Finally, same as you, MY GARAGE is a point of concern, lol. With my M3 inside there is about 12-14in of clearance. The CTS-V Wagon is 10in longer, so I'm not even sure if the doors will close. Not quite sure about driving it home, though, as that car still has 12km on the clock and the dealership is 40km away.....
Man, I know you are trying to justify with the payments, warranty, etc. but until you test drive, it's all just needless theory. It would be great if you really end up liking it, but I think it's just as likely you'll think it's a huge change from an M. The additional power was actually not noticeable to me. "Less handling" would be a gross understatement. It does have decent suspension! But it's still like driving a fast bus.
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 10:51 PM   #82
Kasé Zomé
Captain
Kasé Zomé's Avatar
10
Rep
787
Posts

 
Drives: faster than my demons can fly
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
"Less handling" would be a gross understatement. It does have decent suspension! But it's still like driving a fast bus.
Interesting. I felt that given a big track say Willow Springs or California Speedway, I would be faster in the Caddy than my M3 simply because of it's grunt. In no way would I compare it to a bus.
__________________
1998 M3/4/5
2011 E90 6MT ZCP Slicktop (SOLD)
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2012, 11:33 PM   #83
swanson
Convicted Felon
swanson's Avatar
31
Rep
1,601
Posts

 
Drives: chariot
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY

iTrader: (0)

[quote=SamS;11986296]Man, I know you are trying to justify with the payments, warranty, etc. but until you test drive, it's all just needless theory. It would be great if you really end up liking it, but I think it's just as likely you'll think it's a huge change from an M. The additional power was actually not noticeable to me. "Less handling" would be a gross understatement. It does have decent suspension! But it's still like driving a fast bus.[/QUOTE]

Thats a bit too much. Its nothing like a bus. The suspension on the CTS-V is superior to the suspension on the M3. Its the weight difference and the weight of the steering. All out, the CTS-V out handles the M3.
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2012, 06:14 AM   #84
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasé Zomé View Post
Interesting. I felt that given a big track say Willow Springs or California Speedway, I would be faster in the Caddy than my M3 simply because of it's grunt. In no way would I compare it to a bus.
I think the OP will more likely be using it for DD use. In that respect, I still say it is bus-like. Very long, can't shift lanes as easily as the M3, also feels very cavernous inside. Although so may enjoy that last characteristic.
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2012, 06:16 AM   #85
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by swanson View Post

Thats a bit too much. Its nothing like a bus. The suspension on the CTS-V is superior to the suspension on the M3. Its the weight difference and the weight of the steering. All out, the CTS-V out handles the M3.
I did appreciate the suspension. GM is definitely on to something there.
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2012, 03:18 PM   #86
Kasé Zomé
Captain
Kasé Zomé's Avatar
10
Rep
787
Posts

 
Drives: faster than my demons can fly
Join Date: May 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2011 E90 M3  [4.50]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I think the OP will more likely be using it for DD use. In that respect, I still say it is bus-like. Very long, can't shift lanes as easily as the M3, also feels very cavernous inside. Although so may enjoy that last characteristic.
Using that logic then you would also consider the M5 a bus as it is actually 1.4" longer than the CTS-V wagon. BTW, both the M5 and CTS-V wagon have nearly identical weight distribution percentages (with the nod going to Caddy by 0.5%).

Not trying to argue with you but I am trying to give the OP both sides of the coin so he can make an intelligent decision.
__________________
1998 M3/4/5
2011 E90 6MT ZCP Slicktop (SOLD)
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2012, 03:22 PM   #87
adc
Brigadier General
53
Rep
4,151
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 E90 M3 ED
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MD/DC

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasé Zomé View Post
Using that logic then you would also consider the M5 a bus as it is actually 1.4" longer than the CTS-V wagon.
The M5 *is* a bus, what's your point?
__________________

2009 E90 M3 ED
2014 X1 28i ED
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2012, 03:26 PM   #88
SamS
Brigadier General
SamS's Avatar
61
Rep
4,579
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 ActiveHybrid 3
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasé Zomé View Post
Using that logic then you would also consider the M5 a bus as it is actually 1.4" longer than the CTS-V wagon. BTW, both the M5 and CTS-V wagon have nearly identical weight distribution percentages (with the nod going to Caddy by 0.5%).
The "bus" analogy comes more from the touring configuration than the outside length. When you look behind you, it feels like there's 8 feet of cabin behind your head, very unlike what it feels when you're in an M3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasé Zomé View Post
Not trying to argue with you but I am trying to give the OP both sides of the coin so he can make an intelligent decision.
He can make an intelligent decision when actually takes the car for a drive

Last edited by SamS; 05-18-2012 at 03:35 PM.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:39 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST