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      05-03-2012, 06:10 AM   #45
Eau Rouge
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It's been a while, but somewhere back in time around the launch of the E9x M3, a BMW official stated that M Division expected 90+% of the E9x M3s produced to be equipped with DCT. For comparison purposes, the SMG to MT ratio of the previous generation was closer to 1:1. If the prediction was accurate, MTs will be relatively rare, even in America where MT enthusiasts are most numerous. FWIW, the only MT E9x M3 I've ever seen on a showroom floor was the first 2008 M3 delivered to dealers with everything thereafter having DCT.
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      05-03-2012, 07:20 AM   #46
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It seems the market today is more inclined to drive something other than a manual as the trend by manufacturers has been to offer automatic-type transmissions in performance cars. These companies also want to explore technology with these fast-shifting transmissions, too. Couple this with the lazy driver who dreds manually shifting in gridlock and who's preoccupied with gadgets including cell phones. Other than Porsche, I'd say the manual transmission is slowly going away.
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      05-03-2012, 07:43 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by 48Laws View Post
It seems the market today is more inclined to drive something other than a manual as the trend by manufacturers has been to offer automatic-type transmissions in performance cars. These companies also want to explore technology with these fast-shifting transmissions, too. Couple this with the lazy driver who dreds manually shifting in gridlock and who's preoccupied with gadgets including cell phones. Other than Porsche, I'd say the manual transmission is slowly going away.
What about PDK ??
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      05-03-2012, 08:20 AM   #48
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What about PDK ??
Porsche just offered the first 7-speed manual, too. That's a big step forward for manuals when the market is exploring non-manual transmissions.
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      05-03-2012, 11:54 AM   #49
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DR.WOnder, you know that E46 M3 6MT's are worth more than E46 M3 SMG's even though SMG's were extra.
Most people that buy used M3's are enthusiasts and I think they prefer manuals?

I believe the same thing will happen for E92 M3's.
Yeah, I believe that's because the SMG wasn't a very good transmission, and it hasn't been reliable, and when something does go bad, it's expensive to fix. That's a pretty potent combo in the used market. I know I test drove a Z4 SMG, and it was literally the worst transmission I've ever drove. Granted, if I owned one, I'd probably learn how to drive it better, but still, most people dont' want to readjust their driving style for a transmission. The DCT is worlds different as a transmission, plus I think it suits the car a bit better. If you can downshift 3 gears in a few milliseconds to get more power when you need it, it doesn't matter as much that the engine isn't that torquey. Furthermore, so far it's been a pretty reliable transmission, and most of the issues have been seen fairly early in the car's life. So, we'll see.
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      05-03-2012, 11:57 AM   #50
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Makes no difference. I've been through two of them and they're both the same. Like someone else said, this car forces you to pay attention while driving the 6MT and the driver just naturally adjusts to it. 1st to 2nd is notchy and the clutch in this car has little to no feedback for the driver. After 4 years of driving my car I still can't consistantly get a smooth take off out of 1st. Hopefully the next M3/4 manual will address this.
^this

I drove an older M3 yesterday for the first time and compared to my 08 M3, that transmission struggles. Don't get me wrong its a great car, but I was getting sea sick from all of the shift lag
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      05-03-2012, 09:41 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
It's been a while, but somewhere back in time around the launch of the E9x M3, a BMW official stated that M Division expected 90+% of the E9x M3s produced to be equipped with DCT.
wow, never thought there are that many posers among M3 owners?

When I was shopping for my car, it seemed the only things that mattered were mileage, options packages, and warranty (original, cpo, etc). How many pedals on the footwell didn't have an effect on price. Contrary to what some are saying, there really wasn't a shortage of 6MT. In fact, sedans were mostly mt. Convertibles were somewhat biased to dct, and coupes were about 50/50 split.

As for long term, I'm sure the dct would lose value more than the mt. It's a very complicated and expensive piece of technology, with questionable long term reliability. Not to mention people are still haunted by the horror stories about the problematic e46 smg. Many buyers would be afraid of owning a dct once warranty is expired for fear of expensive repairs.
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      05-03-2012, 09:46 PM   #52
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wow, never thought there are that many posers among M3 owners?

When I was shopping for my car, it seemed the only things that mattered were mileage, options packages, and warranty (original, cpo, etc). How many pedals on the footwell didn't have an effect on price. Contrary to what some are saying, there really wasn't a shortage of 6MT. In fact, sedans were mostly mt. Convertibles were somewhat biased to dct, and coupes were about 50/50 split.

As for long term, I'm sure the dct would lose value more than the mt. It's a very complicated and expensive piece of technology, with questionable long term reliability. Not to mention people are still haunted by the horror stories about the problematic e46 smg. Many buyers would be afraid of owning a dct once warranty is expired for fear of expensive repairs.
Good point.

However, 6MT on E9x M3's are nothing to boast about (i.e. they're mediocre).
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      05-04-2012, 12:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by MMMorish View Post
Makes no difference. I've been through two of them and they're both the same. Like someone else said, this car forces you to pay attention while driving the 6MT and the driver just naturally adjusts to it. 1st to 2nd is notchy and the clutch in this car has little to no feedback for the driver. After 4 years of driving my car I still can't consistantly get a smooth take off out of 1st. Hopefully the next M3/4 manual will address this.
Do you mean starting from a dead stop in 1st?, or going from 1st to 2nd, which I agree is still notchy even with SSK. Performance or smaller shift knob does help. Guess I've just learned to live with it.
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      05-04-2012, 12:37 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by MMMorish View Post
Makes no difference. I've been through two of them and they're both the same. Like someone else said, this car forces you to pay attention while driving the 6MT and the driver just naturally adjusts to it. 1st to 2nd is notchy and the clutch in this car has little to no feedback for the driver. After 4 years of driving my car I still can't consistantly get a smooth take off out of 1st. Hopefully the next M3/4 manual will address this.
You right that some 6MT owners wish for BMW to change the M car manual box but I suspect they intentionally leave it as it is. I have this feeling that as much as the 1-2 shift sucks I will miss this manual gearbox if I never get to drive it again. I drove my e92 M3 with 6 MT last night for about 10 miles just for the fun of it. When I came home I jumped into my 135i with the smooth 6MT and realized how ordinary it is compared to the 6MT in the M.
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      05-04-2012, 04:57 AM   #55
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Yeah, I believe that's because the SMG wasn't a very good transmission, and it hasn't been reliable, and when something does go bad, it's expensive to fix. That's a pretty potent combo in the used market. I know I test drove a Z4 SMG, and it was literally the worst transmission I've ever drove. Granted, if I owned one, I'd probably learn how to drive it better, but still, most people dont' want to readjust their driving style for a transmission. The DCT is worlds different as a transmission, plus I think it suits the car a bit better. If you can downshift 3 gears in a few milliseconds to get more power when you need it, it doesn't matter as much that the engine isn't that torquey. Furthermore, so far it's been a pretty reliable transmission, and most of the issues have been seen fairly early in the car's life. So, we'll see.
The SMG in non-M models was completely different from SMGII in the e46 M3 from what I remember.
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