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      02-13-2017, 11:35 AM   #1
ef11
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Struggling - Move on from FBO 335i to M3? - Need Advice

Hello all,

Long time member but first time poster on the M3 section of the boards. I spent a couple of years looking at the 335i forums before finally buying one in 2013. It's a 2009 E90 Black Sapphire over Oyster MSport, beautiful sedan. I do love my car, it has 110,000 miles on it now and is starting to need some work, but nothing a couple thousand dollars won't fix. Being FBO it is very fast in a straight line with an insane amount of torque.



I found a 2011 E92 M3 ZCP, DCT, Nav, Enhanced Sound, Alpine over black, beautiful car with carbon roof, carbon front valence and carbon rear diffuser. It has 63k and one owner with clean history. I expected the car to have problem areas but I went to see it and it was in beautiful condition, a few things here and there but the leather and all soft touch items were immaculate and bumper/mirrors had clear bra. The price of $29,900 is blowing my mind and making me want to jump on the deal.



The issues I'm having:
1. The test drive wasn't very long, but didn't blow my mind. I missed the torque immediately, but the sound and handling were very nice.
2. The big ticket items on my current car have been handled, but I'm not sure what type of maintenance/repairs I might be getting myself into with the M3. I almost need new tires now and really about $1,500 worth of work to get my car perfect, that's one reason I'm thinking moving on and putting that money towards the M3 might be smart.
3. I'm always very conscious of the financial implications of a decision. My car is probably worth $12,000 today, almost bottomed out. I think I can drive this M3 for two years and up to 93,000 miles and still sell it for $22,000, making it $4,000 of depreciation each year which is not bad at all. If that sounds reasonable, then it's an ok financial decision for sure.
4. There is also a 2011 E92 M3 ZCP, DCT, EPS, black on black with 93k for $24,000. That's 30,000 more miles and I'd rather have white than black, but the car is just as clean as the white one and $6,000 less. However, I'm not sure what type of maintenance is required around 100k? or 65k for the other one.
5. Selling my current car for such a low price is hard, it is worth more than $12,000 to me for sure, but I don't think I can justify having two cars.
6. I don't ever read stories from people saying "I drove an M3 and decided I liked my FBO 335i enough to just keep it" but that is kind of how I'm feeling...so I would like to get everyone's thoughts.
7. Audio quality is one of the biggest aspects of my current car that I enjoy, I've heard the EPS of the M3 doesn't stack up very well to the Logic 7 system, so I'm a bit worried about that.

I know this is a bit of a personal post, but hearing other peoples opinions is always nice and might help me clarify my decision. I think I will take the car for a PPI later this week as well to drive it more and get peace of mind if I do end up going that route.

Last edited by ef11; 02-13-2017 at 12:27 PM.
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      02-13-2017, 12:30 PM   #2
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In the same boat. I have been test driving since Nov, and i wasn't really Wow'd. from what i am reading it will take a little getting used to. My 335i is a daily driver, i use it for everything and i work in the city and we drive everywhere. I love it, but i want an M. I am going to get one this year , just want to wait it out till I find a good one with all the things i want and at least as clean as my current car.

I would think the M would be a much better car, maybe we just need to live with it for a few days to really get a feel for it? or maybe change the way we drive, as both are completely different?

Either way i share your sentiments about my FBO 335i ("I drove an M3 and decided I liked my FBO 335i enough to just keep it"). No iam not saying an FBO 335i is better or faster, the M is likely better in most ways.
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      02-13-2017, 01:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blu3wolf View Post
In the same boat. I have been test driving since Nov, and i wasn't really Wow'd. from what i am reading it will take a little getting used to. My 335i is a daily driver, i use it for everything and i work in the city and we drive everywhere. I love it, but i want an M. I am going to get one this year , just want to wait it out till I find a good one with all the things i want and at least as clean as my current car.

I would think the M would be a much better car, maybe we just need to live with it for a few days to really get a feel for it? or maybe change the way we drive, as both are completely different?

Either way i share your sentiments about my FBO 335i ("I drove an M3 and decided I liked my FBO 335i enough to just keep it"). No iam not saying an FBO 335i is better or faster, the M is likely better in most ways.
Thanks for the feedback, my 335i is my daily driver as well and I live in Houston so I take it all over the city. I think maybe we do need more time with the car before fully falling, but that makes it a bit hard to justify the price I guess.
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      02-13-2017, 01:39 PM   #4
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im pretty sure m3 audio is better than 335
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      02-13-2017, 01:49 PM   #5
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To really get an understanding of what makes the M3 great, you need to wind the engine out to redline and take corners at speed. In normal driving, I'd say the 335i is more friendly to drive. On a race track, it's a totally different experience and no comparison at all.

EPS is much better than Logic 7. You need to run it at a higher volume to appreciate it. EPS is optimized and tuned for a certain level. At low volume, it doesn't sound very good. Logic 7 is better at low volume as it isn't as dynamic and tuned for optimal sound at a specific volume.
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      02-13-2017, 01:50 PM   #6
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Did you hit the "M" button?

As an owner of 3 bmw's now, I say 'why not both?'

Audio quality? The only audio source you'll need is under the hood.
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      02-13-2017, 02:16 PM   #7
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I would love to have both, but atm it doesnt make sense for me financially. I did test with the M button, although i did like shifting much later than usual. the sound and the revs were the highlights. i used to be a big audio person, but now iam at bay with the sound systems provided (and if am not, then its not hard to upgrade). Agreed the engine note is sufficient audio enough!
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      02-13-2017, 03:34 PM   #8
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Financially speaking, your better off keeping the 335i if you can make it perfect for $1500. The M3 maintenance will most definitely be higher. Even if you're a DIY'er the parts alone cost more. At 65K miles you'll likely have throttle actuators failing at some point, those are 2K or so at the dealer. And if you fear the rod bearings failing, that's 2-3K to replace.

Yes, torque can be addicting. The M3 needs to be driven differently than your 335i to get the most out of it. If you have the settings right/M mode, you can make it rip, and like others have said the engine note is tough to beat. And really, the overall driving experience in an M car is very different from a non-M.

I haven't heard Logic 7 but the EPS in the M3 leaves a lot to be desired, I think. The base audio in my X5 is noticeably better than the upgraded sound package in my M3. But as most will tell you here, who cares about that with the V8 under the hood.

Good luck deciding.
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      02-13-2017, 03:57 PM   #9
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If you can DIY, the M3 can be affordable. Throttle actuators are $550 each and you may need 2, and rod bearings are $500-$800 in parts, front tension rod bushings are $50 a pair. They seem to be pretty reliable cars. Definitely different driving style. We have a 535xit with JB4 and it is easier to drive hard than winding out the M3. My M3 is 6MT but I think the DCT is the better choice unless you are bored with autos.
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      02-13-2017, 04:12 PM   #10
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increase your budget and find a low mileage one. They come down quite a bit from there highs on LCI models.
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      02-13-2017, 04:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ef11 View Post
Hello all,

Long time member but first time poster on the M3 section of the boards. I spent a couple of years looking at the 335i forums before finally buying one in 2013. It's a 2009 E90 Black Sapphire over Oyster MSport, beautiful sedan. I do love my car, it has 110,000 miles on it now and is starting to need some work, but nothing a couple thousand dollars won't fix. Being FBO it is very fast in a straight line with an insane amount of torque.



I found a 2011 E92 M3 ZCP, DCT, Nav, Enhanced Sound, Alpine over black, beautiful car with carbon roof, carbon front valence and carbon rear diffuser. It has 63k and one owner with clean history. I expected the car to have problem areas but I went to see it and it was in beautiful condition, a few things here and there but the leather and all soft touch items were immaculate and bumper/mirrors had clear bra. The price of $29,900 is blowing my mind and making me want to jump on the deal.



The issues I'm having:
1. The test drive wasn't very long, but didn't blow my mind. I missed the torque immediately, but the sound and handling were very nice.
2. The big ticket items on my current car have been handled, but I'm not sure what type of maintenance/repairs I might be getting myself into with the M3. I almost need new tires now and really about $1,500 worth of work to get my car perfect, that's one reason I'm thinking moving on and putting that money towards the M3 might be smart.
3. I'm always very conscious of the financial implications of a decision. My car is probably worth $12,000 today, almost bottomed out. I think I can drive this M3 for two years and up to 93,000 miles and still sell it for $22,000, making it $4,000 of depreciation each year which is not bad at all. If that sounds reasonable, then it's an ok financial decision for sure.
4. There is also a 2011 E92 M3 ZCP, DCT, EPS, black on black with 93k for $24,000. That's 30,000 more miles and I'd rather have white than black, but the car is just as clean as the white one and $6,000 less. However, I'm not sure what type of maintenance is required around 100k? or 65k for the other one.
5. Selling my current car for such a low price is hard, it is worth more than $12,000 to me for sure, but I don't think I can justify having two cars.
6. I don't ever read stories from people saying "I drove an M3 and decided I liked my FBO 335i enough to just keep it" but that is kind of how I'm feeling...so I would like to get everyone's thoughts.
7. Audio quality is one of the biggest aspects of my current car that I enjoy, I've heard the EPS of the M3 doesn't stack up very well to the Logic 7 system, so I'm a bit worried about that.

I know this is a bit of a personal post, but hearing other peoples opinions is always nice and might help me clarify my decision. I think I will take the car for a PPI later this week as well to drive it more and get peace of mind if I do end up going that route.
M3 doesn't sound like the car for you. You are better off on getting a lease on a new plebian model BMW.
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      02-13-2017, 04:22 PM   #12
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Was in a very similar situation several years ago when I owned a 335i. I test drove an M3, short ride and it did not overly impress me so I kept the 335i.

Fast forward to last October when I traded it for 2011 M3 stick with ZCP and I can share with you the drivers experience is hands down far superior in so many way. There are folks on here far more eloquent than me who have posted reviews and comparisons.

I will share this with you as I am also very in tune with fine audio.

I have the optional upgraded audio in my M3 and I have a real problem keeping the music streaming.........when I hear that engine note it is like taking drugs. Yes, the 335i was thrilling and fast but doesn't come close to the total package from the M.

My nephew is visiting in a few weeks and he is young enough to believe me when I tell him the M button stands for Monster Mode. Such a bad ass ride.

If you do pull the trigger, you can always upgrade the audio in the M with speakers from Bavsound. I am tempted because I enjoy listening to music so much but again, I find myself turning the music off so I can hear the engine. Dinan CAI opened it up nicely too.

Good luck.

Last edited by timothy2001; 02-13-2017 at 04:28 PM. Reason: Sound recommendations
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      02-13-2017, 05:23 PM   #13
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Don't believe a word you hear on this forum, I mean it's a m3 board so take it with a grain of salt.
The 335i w/FBO is faster, has blow the doors off speed, and torque for days. Plus the stereo is much better than anything in a M car. Did I mention the M tax for parts? You'll need rod bearings, throttle actuators, and countless other parts and that's before you even drive the car! Best to stay with the smart crowd, save big bucks, and blow off any M car...worst comes to worst, you can always get some M badges for your car, no one will ever know the difference!
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      02-13-2017, 05:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveskiing View Post
Don't believe a word you hear on this forum, I mean it's a m3 board so take it with a grain of salt.
The 335i w/FBO is faster, has blow the doors off speed, and torque for days. Plus the stereo is much better than anything in a M car. Did I mention the M tax for parts? You'll need rod bearings, throttle actuators, and countless other parts and that's before you even drive the car! Best to stay with the smart crowd, save big bucks, and blow off any M car...worst comes to worst, you can always get some M badges for your car, no one will ever know the difference!
That really depends if you're looking at numbers or the driving experience. A numbers car is not really the same as the full driving experience. I can say I'd build a Honda Civic to beat all M3s, 335i etc... and it is faster but is it the same driving experience?

Even if you get FBO and you have the power, you're still missing:

- wide body
- M specific aluminum subframe, suspension arms
- LSD
- M3 larger brakes
- faster and more responsive steering rack
- M3 stiffer subframe bushings
- M3 specific aluminum EDC shocks
- M3 adjustable bolster seats

Not to mention the cosmetic stuff such as the bumpers, fenders, exhaust system etc...

Yes, you can add all those things to a 335i but you'd spend a lot more in the conversion than just buying an M3.

Not to mention the 335i overheats after a few laps on the track even in stock form with the factory larger cooler. With FBO, you're pushing a lot more heat and it'll overheat faster. The M3 never overheats on track. I seriously LMAO on track when a 335i passes me on the straight and I pass them later when they are in limp mode while I continue lapping. I guess it's good for the 1 time glory run... lol
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      02-13-2017, 05:59 PM   #15
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Here you go, enjoy...

Go to #35, forum member ss134 does about the best job of comparing the two cars that I have seen/read.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...+vs.+m3&page=2
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      02-13-2017, 06:04 PM   #16
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Lots of feedback....you need to wind the M3 out to 8400 rpm in M mode before you make any decisions. Good Luck.
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      02-13-2017, 06:07 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveskiing View Post
Don't believe a word you hear on this forum, I mean it's a m3 board so take it with a grain of salt.
The 335i w/FBO is faster, has blow the doors off speed, and torque for days. Plus the stereo is much better than anything in a M car. Did I mention the M tax for parts? You'll need rod bearings, throttle actuators, and countless other parts and that's before you even drive the car! Best to stay with the smart crowd, save big bucks, and blow off any M car...worst comes to worst, you can always get some M badges for your car, no one will ever know the difference!
That really depends if you're looking at numbers or the driving experience. A numbers car is not really the same as the full driving experience. I can say I'd build a Honda Civic to beat all M3s, 335i etc... and it is faster but is it the same driving experience?

Even if you get FBO and you have the power, you're still missing:

- wide body
- M specific aluminum subframe, suspension arms
- LSD
- M3 larger brakes
- faster and more responsive steering rack
- M3 stiffer subframe bushings
- M3 specific aluminum EDC shocks
- M3 adjustable bolster seats

Not to mention the cosmetic stuff such as the bumpers, fenders, exhaust system etc...

Yes, you can add all those things to a 335i but you'd spend a lot more in the conversion than just buying an M3.

Not to mention the 335i overheats after a few laps on the track even in stock form with the factory larger cooler. With FBO, you're pushing a lot more heat and it'll overheat faster. The M3 never overheats on track. I seriously LMAO on track when a 335i passes me on the straight and I pass them later when they are in limp mode while I continue lapping. I guess it's good for the 1 time glory run... lol
Uhm, what gave away my tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek? The ascertaining of M badges?
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      02-13-2017, 06:23 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveskiing View Post
Uhm, what gave away my tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek? The ascertaining of M badges?
I got it.. but just to be certain others do.

I seriously thought about getting a 335i at one time but I did the math to do a fun 335i track day car and it wasn't cost effective. A 335i on track is a rare bird. I'll see 10 M3s before 1 335i... there's a reason for that.
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      02-13-2017, 06:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K
Quote:
Originally Posted by loveskiing View Post
Uhm, what gave away my tongue-firmly-planted-in-cheek? The ascertaining of M badges?
I got it.. but just to be certain others do.

I seriously thought about getting a 335i at one time but I did the math to do a fun 335i track day car and it wasn't cost effective. A 335i on track is a rare bird. I'll see 10 M3s before 1 335i... there's a reason for that.
Yes, but to me it's SO much more than that...
There's a reason why M stands for so much...it's like dating many women, and each has their advantages...but then you meet the One who has so many things that in totality is the One you can't live without...Gentlemen, meet The One, Miss M3
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      02-13-2017, 06:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loveskiing View Post
Yes, but to me it's SO much more than that...
There's a reason why M stands for so much...it's like dating many women, and each has their advantages...but then you meet the One who has so many things that in totality is the One you can't live without...Gentlemen, meet The One, Miss M3
For me, the widebody gets me all the time. Those hips! In today's world of cost cutting and shared parts, to see a genuine flared widebody is a rare sight. Also, the bespoke V8 engine - built specifically for the M3 and not available in any other car. It means the M3 is not just a bolt on afterthought - the M3 is a purpose built car.
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      02-13-2017, 06:45 PM   #21
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Let's get this out the window previously mentioned. The 335 is a fast formatted car. Upgraded single turbo-tune-fuel on stock internals . Easily high Hp attainable, The N54 seeks high hp with daily capabilities. Therefore it only accelerates in straight line driving. All ///M cars are design in their own division so stated "80% of the M3 is different from other 3 series" the dynamics in the M3 are track oriented, and design for track use (circuit). The reliability is phenomenal and better in every track facet.. yes, it lacks tq yes, 3600lbs is heavy as shit. Try constant beating on both motors for a long period of time, see who comes out superior. ///M3 is a cheap version of the GT2 with a lotta upside, in need of weight reduction. IMO
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      02-13-2017, 07:21 PM   #22
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Strongly suggest you NOT buy the M3 unless it is a direct fix for whatever shortcomings you feel your car has. For example, I switched from a 335is to an M3, in part, because I was not satisfied with the 335is suspension and, after a lot of research, I determined that no amount of money was going to get me to M3 performance in that area. The suspension is miles better - and I'm talking about on the street, not just the track.

As others have said, maintenance cost is higher so you shouldn't make the change unless you are certain its an upgrade for YOUR preferences.
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