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      04-24-2012, 02:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Im just trying to give people an accurate idea of whats going on here..a small fraction of people's cars live on the track and unless your's does or you are putting down MUCH more power than stock..(i.e, supercharged) then the 245/265 setup is fine...I have had no issues to date and I drive very aggresively..

Im not averse to modding cars at all..in fact my last car (335) was heavily modified..

Whats comical is people always wanting to go bigger..newsflash..bigger is NOT always better.
Once again..its accurate to you..its "opinion" not fact. Just like our "opinion" is our "opinon". Your posts come off as if its Gospel...

You would be surprised how much of the mid corner understeer you can remove by a larger front footprint. Totally disagree that the 245/265 setup is ok even at stock power levels. Thats my "opinion"...

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      04-24-2012, 06:08 PM   #24
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Gotta say that one of the first things I noticed when I got my M3 was that the car just needed more outright grip. However, if you want to stay with exactly the same overall tire diameter and stagger and go to wider tires, you will need to go to a 285/305 set-up. I do not believe 285's will fit in front regardless of what wheel configuration you use. Also, when you go wider in front, you lose steering feel and responsiveness.

I'm thinking 255/295 is probably the way to go. Good rear width. Front width not so much as to diminish responsiveness, equal front and rear diameters for 255/35 and 295/30 on 19" wheels. Not sure how much more understeer you will get with this set-up, however.

What do you all think?
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      04-24-2012, 06:28 PM   #25
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Sounds like a fine setup. But you can run 285's with the right wheels/spacers and maybe mild fender rolling. Hell I've seen guys run 275 true slicks front without rolling the fender and 275 slicks are every bit as wide as 285 street tires.

I don't put too much thought into keeping the diamaters exactly right as long as they are close. There are a bunch of track guys running the same tire front and rear (275/35 or so) without ill results.
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      04-24-2012, 06:34 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
Gotta say that one of the first things I noticed when I got my M3 was that the car just needed more outright grip. However, if you want to stay with exactly the same overall tire diameter and stagger and go to wider tires, you will need to go to a 285/305 set-up. I do not believe 285's will fit in front regardless of what wheel configuration you use. Also, when you go wider in front, you lose steering feel and responsiveness.

I'm thinking 255/295 is probably the way to go. Good rear width. Front width not so much as to diminish responsiveness, equal front and rear diameters for 255/35 and 295/30 on 19" wheels. Not sure how much more understeer you will get with this set-up, however.

What do you all think?
I'm running a 255/285 PSS setup (18" wheels) and, IMO, it's a huge improvement over the stock 245/265 setup. I have a set of 19" wheels with PSS in stock sizes so I'm able to make an "apples to apples" handling comparison - not comparing stock PS2 with PSS.
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      04-24-2012, 06:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Once again..its accurate to you..its "opinion" not fact. Just like our "opinion" is our "opinon". Your posts come off as if its Gospel...

You would be surprised how much of the mid corner understeer you can remove by a larger front footprint. Totally disagree that the 245/265 setup is ok even at stock power levels. Thats my "opinion"...

Dave
Its a fact that if you stay OEM sized you wont have ANY issues..if you want to roll the dice and ride on dump truck tires..then be my guest..
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      04-24-2012, 06:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Its a fact that if you stay OEM sized you will run into understeer at the track; and that's an issue for some.
Fixed -_-

Those cars are set up from the factory to understeer at the limit - which is supposedly a safeguard for novice drivers to not crash since it's easier for noobs to just back off the throttle when understeering than regain control in an oversteer situation.

The E90 chassis just like the E46 before it greatly benefits from bigger tires up front. That's a fact too ^^
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      04-24-2012, 06:58 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiv View Post
Fixed -_-

Those cars are set up from the factory to understeer at the limit - which is supposedly a safeguard for novice drivers to not crash since it's easier for noobs to just back off the throttle when understeering than regain control in an oversteer situation.

The E90 chassis just like the E46 before it greatly benefits from bigger tires up front. That's a fact too ^^
Again read my posts the minute fraction of those who live on the track means this is the exception not the rule. I prefer not to rub.. not to have added weight... not to have my DSC or stability systems/sensors go hay-wire..and these are facts as well
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      04-24-2012, 07:12 PM   #30
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Ha why would you care about the added 2 lbs if you don't track your car? There are a fair number of E92 M3 folks that track them. It's pretty unanimous that the stock setup understeers.
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      04-24-2012, 07:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Again read my posts the minute fraction of those who live on the track means this is the exception not the rule. I prefer not to rub.. not to have added weight... not to have my DSC or stability systems/sensors go hay-wire..and these are facts as well
I understand you prefer not to have added weight for all that high performance street driving you do I kid I kid.

Anyhow; there is no rubbing whatsoever with the popular 18" 265/285 setups and I wouldn't be surprised if the wheel/tire combo ends up weighting the same if not less than the heavy OE19/ZCP wheels with OE size tires.
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      04-24-2012, 07:41 PM   #32
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Less weight means = Better steering response..

I gotta drive on the track to enjoy that

Its cool guys..different strokes and all.
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      04-24-2012, 08:00 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Less weight means = Better steering response..

I gotta drive on the track to enjoy that

Its cool guys..different strokes and all.
Less weight means better steering responsiveness as well as a much better ride.
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      04-24-2012, 10:46 PM   #34
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I think the best setup is also going to depend on what wheels you are running. On the ZCP wheels a 255/285 IMHO is the best setup. Now you move up to a 9.5" front and 10.5" rear then I would move up to a 275/295 setup. If you move on to a lighter set of wheels to offset the slight weight gain it would be even better.

If I shave 2lbs per wheel yet gain 2lbs in tire weight but able to go to wider sizes guys how can this not be a good thing.

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      04-24-2012, 10:49 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tibra1 View Post
Again read my posts the minute fraction of those who live on the track means this is the exception not the rule. I prefer not to rub.. not to have added weight... not to have my DSC or stability systems/sensors go hay-wire..and these are facts as well
Tibra, I'm running a 255/285 setup and the DSC is a non issue and my sensors don't go haywire nor do I rub, this is a fact...if I want to drive like an all out hooigan I will just turn the DSC off. The DSC intrusion is only slightly different than when I had the OEM sizes. Even then Im not sure as I really didn't have the OEM sizes on the car that long and didn't really even push the car that hard as I was still under break-in.

Ben at TireRack even mentioned that the M3 really isn't that sensitive to tire diamater as long as you don't go crazy.

Also, its not just about how much better the car handles...it just looks so much better.







Those look like dump truck tires to you?



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Last edited by Dave07997S; 04-25-2012 at 01:29 PM.
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      04-24-2012, 11:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave07997S View Post
Tibra, I'm running a 255/285 setup
Also, its not just about how much better the car handles...it just looks so much better.
Dave
How wide are those wheels 8.5/9.5? if you went to a 10 or 10.5 or 11 wide would you notice a difference (both look and feel)?
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      04-24-2012, 11:22 PM   #37
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Rubbing is not a issue.....I just proved that last week. I'm running a 265/30 up front and a 295/30 in the rear. My DSC has not blinked since I changed the set up. There seems to be a lot of mis-information about this. These cars are not that sensitive.............Phil
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      04-24-2012, 11:51 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Ryder View Post
Rubbing is not a issue.....I just proved that last week. I'm running a 265/30 up front and a 295/30 in the rear. My DSC has not blinked since I changed the set up. There seems to be a lot of mis-information about this. These cars are not that sensitive.............Phil
Which tires are you running 265/295 on ZCPs? I am looking at getting the same size on my ZCPs for my track setup. I was thinking of AD08s, but they have a pretty aggresive sidewall. I just want to make sure they don't rub. There aren't many choices when it comes to the 19" wheels to fit close to the stock size/stagger.
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      04-24-2012, 11:56 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCoffee View Post
Which tires are you running 265/295 on ZCPs? I am looking at getting the same size on my ZCPs for my track setup. I was thinking of AD08s, but they have a pretty aggresive sidewall. I just want to make sure they don't rub. There aren't many choices when it comes to the 19" wheels to fit close to the stock size/stagger.
I'm running PSS's ...............Phil

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=676555
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      04-25-2012, 04:14 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnotorious View Post
How wide are those wheels 8.5/9.5? if you went to a 10 or 10.5 or 11 wide would you notice a difference (both look and feel)?
ZCP wheels are 9"/10" wide...
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      04-25-2012, 05:21 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
I have always been one to think that wider tires equate to more grip and indeed you see some very powerful cars with very wide tires.

I have also heard, however, that grip isn't related to the width of the tires, but rather, to the inflation pressure. By this, I mean that at the same inflation pressure on a given car, a narrower tire will have a narrower but longer contact patch, while the wider tire will have a wider but shorter contact patch. In the end, however, the actual area of rubber contacting the pavement is the same. If this is true, going wider shouldn't make a difference in terms of better grip.

The downside to wider tires is that they are heavier, so I want to know if they actually do give you more grip or not?

Thanks.
Getting back to the original question--there was a thread that discussed this several months ago. It's a very interesting topic. I had posted a question in which I mentioned I was running 275 front tires on the track for better turn-in and braking grip. One of the track guys (maybe Richbot or Consolidated?) mentioned that a wider 275 tire doesn't necessarily help with braking grip because of this contact patch consideration. A 275 tire may have a wider patch, but it is also a shorter front-to-back patch than that of a 245 on the same car. So, theoretically, braking grip would be better with the narrower 245 tire with the longer front-to-back contact patch since it's a longitudinal force we're interested in. The contact patch's size stays the same between the 245 and 275, but the shape is different. What ends up making my 275/35-18 front Nitto NT01 gripper under braking than a 245/35-19 PS2 is the tread design and sticky compound, which more than offsets the wider but shorter contact patch. And when we're talking about the lateral forces of cornering grip, the wider Nitto wins both ways--wider contact patch and tread design/sticky compound.

It's a really interesting thought process that I hadn't considered before.
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      04-25-2012, 05:24 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VVG View Post
Gotta say that one of the first things I noticed when I got my M3 was that the car just needed more outright grip. However, if you want to stay with exactly the same overall tire diameter and stagger and go to wider tires, you will need to go to a 285/305 set-up. I do not believe 285's will fit in front regardless of what wheel configuration you use. Also, when you go wider in front, you lose steering feel and responsiveness.

I'm thinking 255/295 is probably the way to go. Good rear width. Front width not so much as to diminish responsiveness, equal front and rear diameters for 255/35 and 295/30 on 19" wheels. Not sure how much more understeer you will get with this set-up, however.

What do you all think?
I would think the 255/295 stagger is too much and will further exacerbate understeer. Maybe consider a 275/30-19 front and 295/30-19 rear, or 265/30-19 front and 295/30-19 rear...
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      04-25-2012, 05:31 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishCoffee View Post
Which tires are you running 265/295 on ZCPs? I am looking at getting the same size on my ZCPs for my track setup. I was thinking of AD08s, but they have a pretty aggresive sidewall. I just want to make sure they don't rub. There aren't many choices when it comes to the 19" wheels to fit close to the stock size/stagger.
arter runs 275/30-19 front and 295/30-19 rear Yokohama AD-08s on his stock ZCP wheels for his street setup--you may want to PM him and ask his opinion of this combo. I believe he says there aren't rubbing issues. This might not be ideal for the track, though, because a 275 front might be a bit wide for a 9" wide wheel, and the 295 rear a bit wide for a 10" wheel. Those tire widths should probably see 0.5" wider wheels, otherwise there may be sidewall rollover in the stressed environment of a track setting.
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      04-25-2012, 01:29 PM   #44
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BTW guys, sorry for the pic of my son at the range. Didn't mean to post that...

Dave
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