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      04-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #45
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So for those of us with mods who do not want to go to the dealer, is there a vendor to which we can mail or ECU for the update for a fee?
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      04-16-2012, 10:54 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Wow..

100E is really old software..

Part of the gain was likely due to reset adaptation values.

I always update my customers to the latest software from ISTA/P 46.2 before tuning the car. That way it's the latest and freshest from BMW and their bug fixes are incorporated. Also a good measure to update the DCT software level to match with the DME if it's not already on the latest version.

Nice gain!
Usually this is customary, but since this was a 6MT car - no need.
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      04-16-2012, 11:04 AM   #47
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Interesting. I'm running 100E FYI. My car is a 08/09 build and has never been updated. Perhaps time to change that...

Thanks for the info!

: )
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      04-16-2012, 11:09 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
Interesting. I'm running 100E FYI. My car is a 08/09 build and has never been updated. Perhaps time to change that...

Thanks for the info!

: )
Get a dyno first!
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      04-16-2012, 11:10 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Get a dyno first!
Sir, yes sir! : )

Honestly, I probably will, then we will have another point of reference.
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      04-16-2012, 12:19 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KJ View Post
The dealer would normally void the warranty on the DME if you updated the software to an aftermarket tune.

Would they still be able to void it if you update the firmware to 231E since it's legitimately OEM software?
You can update it to whatever OEM software you want without fear of warranty rejection.

However, you might cause issues if you update the DME to the newest version and fail to update other control units in the car.

In fact, this could potentially halt the dealer systems and could potentially mark your DME is failed when hooked up to BMW diagnostics equipment. This is because the ISTA/P integration level is different across modules in the car.

If you are going to perform an update to the DME, make sure you flash the rest of the car to the corresponding software level as well.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 04-16-2012 at 12:32 PM.
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      04-16-2012, 12:53 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
You can update it to whatever OEM software you want without fear of warranty rejection.

However, you might cause issues if you update the DME to the newest version and fail to update other control units in the car.

In fact, this could potentially halt the dealer systems and could potentially mark your DME is failed when hooked up to BMW diagnostics equipment. This is because the ISTA/P integration level is different across modules in the car.

If you are going to perform an update to the DME, make sure you flash the rest of the car to the corresponding software level as well.
Is it still as complicated as how PG outlined it? Need a special cable, super special battery charger, etc. I'm referring to all modules, not just DME.
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      04-16-2012, 12:55 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdd1040 View Post
Is it still as complicated as how PG outlined it? Need a special cable, super special battery charger, etc. I'm referring to all modules, not just DME.
Somewhat. Battery voltage needs to be at a constant rate and yes, special tools are needed.
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      04-16-2012, 03:06 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
This is the answer I was looking for, as not every situation will play out the same. This shouldn't be approached as a "mod" but as a part of regular maintenance.

Let's explain things a bit:

M3PO's M3 was strapped to the dyno for Evolve software tune to perform a before/after dyno just to show approximate gains that would be as a result of flashing evolve-r software. After a few baseline runs, it appeared to be down on power for the specific mods that were installed. We really didn't even get a chance to test the new evolve software.

Thus, the troubleshooting process begins.

Since this was a 2008 model, there are a number of things to consider since miles were racking up. Spark plugs were recently changed, so we can rule those out as a possibility.

Other than running the car on the dyno some more and logging O2 activity, a VIN check was the next logical step, which showed that updates were performed shortly after purchase, or possibly not at all. A DME read showed early software (100E), which prompted for an update (231E), as we've seen considerable gains from this in the past on a number of early vehicles. After updating, M3PO's car showed normal power levels on the dyno again.

It's a good idea to keep current with updates, but dealerships will not update (for free) unless there is a considerable reason to do so. What I don't want to recommend is everyone calling their SAs and demanding updates on Monday morning - as every situation is different.

Best advice? Get a baseline dyno beforehand to eliminate the guesswork. Also, keep up on maintenance.

Brent: We'll see you on the dyno soon in the search for more power.
Thanks for chiming in on this Tom!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
You can update it to whatever OEM software you want without fear of warranty rejection.

However, you might cause issues if you update the DME to the newest version and fail to update other control units in the car.

In fact, this could potentially halt the dealer systems and could potentially mark your DME is failed when hooked up to BMW diagnostics equipment. This is because the ISTA/P integration level is different across modules in the car.

If you are going to perform an update to the DME, make sure you flash the rest of the car to the corresponding software level as well.
If you don't have DCT, what else should be updated?
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      04-16-2012, 03:58 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdd1040 View Post
Is it still as complicated as how PG outlined it? Need a special cable, super special battery charger, etc. I'm referring to all modules, not just DME.
This depends.

If you are using the factory ISTA/P programming machine with the factory ICOM-A and ICOM-B (for MOST-BUS Fiber Optic equipped cars like ours), the voltage MUST be atleast 13.2V or the software will simply not allow you continue.

Recommended by the factory is a 75AMP battery stabilizer with 14.2V for programming. This is what I use for programming vehicles that come to me.

There is no reason to hook a charger up to the car to update the DME. It's the other updates that take significantly longer (such as the CIC/Navigation System), and this will require a charger.

I usually use the factory programs from Germany to update the control units. It doesn't care what the voltage is as it is an expert tool, where the dealer tools hold your hand along the way.

To update a complete car takes somewhere between an hour and four hours, depending on how out of date it is. I always hook a volt meter up to the car during programming to make sure that voltages are in check. I also have an ICOM emulator which lets me use the factory tools to program control units through a standard OBDII/D-Can cable. Updating the DME, FRM, CAS, etc is ok using the D-Can cable. But for transmission control units (EGS) such as DCT, and navigation updates, programming it with a D-CAN cable is asking for trouble as it can't handle the command rate and protocol switching that the factory ICOM unit does.

Edit: M3PO: If you have DCT, its highly advised that this is programmed in conjunction with the DME. If you don't, there are still a number of other modules in the car that will likely require an update.

The ISTA/P Programming levels are released in packages - meaning all of updates within a contained package have been tested to work in conjunction with each-other. Mixing levels is possible, but not an ideal situation. Installing a DME update while the rest of your car is on an older level, is technically mixing levels. I don't see much of an issue with updating the DME + Transmission control (or just the DME if you are 6MT) without doing the others, although it is not preferable.

You may run into strange issues at the dealer if you have a mixed software level in the car. When the car is plugged in, it will display "Last Touched With ISTA/P 4X.X". This integration level corresponds with specific software level numbers programmed into each control unit. If there is a conflict there, it may show the updated control units as failed because the level doesn't correspond with the integration level of the car.

This happened to me months ago.. I updated the FZD (sunroof function control module) to a later version and took the car to the dealer for a software level update. It showed that module as failed and refused to program the car to the latest levels until that module was replaced. I then reprogrammed the module to the older version matching the integration level, and the module (and the rest of the car) were successfully updated.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 04-16-2012 at 04:38 PM.
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      04-16-2012, 08:38 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Just a bit of anecdotal evidence but Tom immediately suggested this as the "problem" and said he had seen this before. In fact, he showed me the plots for a car that made 308 WHP (stock) with old plugs and software. It was misfiring and had failed smog (not codes though). The updated software made a huge difference (I wanna say it made 345 after updating the software but don't quote me on that).
Was your car CPOed? I'm curious. I would think CPO cars would have everything up to date.
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      04-16-2012, 08:59 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul View Post
Was your car CPOed? I'm curious. I would think CPO cars would have everything up to date.
No. Mine is CPO and significantly out of date on many modules. Just with warranty service, if there are no errors, or SIBs about it, they are not going to update it.

Mike,
Thank you for the thorough reply.
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      04-16-2012, 09:06 PM   #57
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Im going to the dealership on Thursday (for other reasons) I plan on asking for the update to the 213E (i have an 6mt 08/09) Besides for that update is there any other software changes that i should ask for?
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      04-16-2012, 09:08 PM   #58
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I believe the latest update fixes the dct issues where the car won't go into gear without having a seat belt... So if you have that update, isn't that the latest?
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      04-16-2012, 09:34 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntgetm3 View Post
Im going to the dealership on Thursday (for other reasons) I plan on asking for the update to the 213E (i have an 6mt 08/09) Besides for that update is there any other software changes that i should ask for?
Dealer will not have a clue what you are talking about. Most follow ISTA/P SW versions (2.46.1 at this time)

Unless there is a significant reason/recall for the updates (software or other mechanical issue), the dealership will charge you for updates.

FYI: 213E is a typo, the title should read 231E.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boostin FD View Post
I believe the latest update fixes the dct issues where the car won't go into gear without having a seat belt... So if you have that update, isn't that the latest?
This is due to a CAS misalignment error, which appeared in 2.45 and is supposed to be rectified in 2.46.X.
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      04-16-2012, 09:35 PM   #60
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I know that... I got that update... But I don't know of this is the same "update" we're all discussing here.
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      04-16-2012, 09:45 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntgetm3 View Post
Im going to the dealership on Thursday (for other reasons) I plan on asking for the update to the 213E (i have an 6mt 08/09) Besides for that update is there any other software changes that i should ask for?
Can you post how much this will be if dealer will not cover it? I have a cpo as well and I'm due for service soon. Just wanna know how much lube I have to bring with me.
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      04-17-2012, 09:35 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
The tune is based off of your particular software on the your particular DME. If you have the old software, your tune will be a modified version of that. From what I can tell, the new software produces gains via tweaks in areas that the tuners don't modify. So you want the new version AND the tuners modifications to make the most power.
Is this true? Is there a benefit to updating to this software version if one will eventually get a tune?
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      04-17-2012, 09:43 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TX335 View Post
Is this true? Is there a benefit to updating to this software version if one will eventually get a tune?
Yes. It has been discussed many times. Tuners only modify a portion of the software.
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      04-17-2012, 10:41 AM   #64
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So I've got to ask for the " ISTA/P SW versions (2.46.1 at this time)"
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      04-17-2012, 11:09 AM   #65
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I have received a few PM's and emails asking about this software version. We have been tuning with 231E since its release. When a customer orders our performance software they are updated to a tuned version of 231E automatically so there is no need to get this update before purchasing our tune.
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      04-17-2012, 11:10 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cntgetm3 View Post
So I've got to ask for the " ISTA/P SW versions (2.46.1 at this time)"
You shouldn't have to specify the update as dealers will always have the latest up-to-date versions.

Alternatively, you can seek an autologic flashing facility (such as us) as a dealer alternative.
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