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      06-29-2012, 01:59 PM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
They did not relax the knock sensitivity from what I see. Knock control maps are the same.
What about the calibration of the sensors?
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      06-29-2012, 02:19 PM   #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
They did not relax the knock sensitivity from what I see. Knock control maps are the same.

I suspect some changes were made in the program area which have to do with the ion sensing knock control parameters.
Couldn't that have essentially the same result?
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      06-29-2012, 02:32 PM   #465
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just got back from dealer...apparently I already had the 231E software
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      06-29-2012, 03:48 PM   #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scalbert View Post
What about the calibration of the sensors?
I don't think these engines have knock sensors. Rather, they sense knock through the spark plugs themselves. Ion sensing. Very advanced.

Maybe you are right though, that the spark or timing maps could look the same but the calculations to pull timing could be different. These are very complex ECU and I am not sure the aftermarket tuners have completely reverse engineered them.
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      06-29-2012, 08:14 PM   #467
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Well my car is officially "updated"...my service write (the man btw) took care of it for me and said i the car was at program 29.1. Now at Ista/p version 46.6.000. Whatever that means???

Anyway, I have yet to really TEST it...meaning fully flog through redline, over and over, several gears. Its been power robbing hot as ballz here in NYC and i have no place to go.

However, i can tell a few things off the bat:
- the clutch engagement while in 1st gear is much smoother and now almost requires no gas - more timing at idle?
- Idle seems quieter...strange
- 1->2 shifts are accomplished much easier...again, maybe due to the timing? My 1->2 shifts before were always a little tricky to make perfect.
- throttle response immediately off idle seems slower (in normal mode)...maybe this also makes the 1->2 shifts easier? no clue.
- is it quicker? don't know yet. running up through 6k or so it def seems more linear and smoother...the slightly slower off idle (like below 2k) makes it seem sluggish from a very low rpm. but once in the meat of the powerband, it feels peppier.

I will be driving the car a ton this weekend and will report back again. If my butt were to say what is different, i would say its smoother and makes lazy shifts around town easier...and that the new tune feels weaker down low but then more even through the midrange. Upper range i can't comment on...YET

i also only run 93 octane.

Last edited by Modena NYC; 06-29-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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      07-01-2012, 08:58 PM   #468
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Spent the last few days driving my car around... I miss the older version. My car feels slower then a prius now under 2k almost like the car only gets quarter throttle until above 2.5k and even then its flat until over 6.5k. Also before I would drive around in the normal power/throttle setting, and now sport plus feels like the old normal.
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      07-01-2012, 10:40 PM   #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeedInc View Post
Spent the last few days driving my car around... I miss the older version. My car feels slower then a prius now under 2k almost like the car only gets quarter throttle until above 2.5k and even then its flat until over 6.5k. Also before I would drive around in the normal power/throttle setting, and now sport plus feels like the old normal.
Bizarre. My experience is totally different going from 100 to 231.
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      07-01-2012, 11:12 PM   #470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Modena NYC View Post
Well my car is officially "updated"...my service write (the man btw) took care of it for me and said i the car was at program 29.1. Now at Ista/p version 46.6.000. Whatever that means???

Anyway, I have yet to really TEST it...meaning fully flog through redline, over and over, several gears. Its been power robbing hot as ballz here in NYC and i have no place to go.

However, i can tell a few things off the bat:
- the clutch engagement while in 1st gear is much smoother and now almost requires no gas - more timing at idle?
- Idle seems quieter...strange
- 1->2 shifts are accomplished much easier...again, maybe due to the timing? My 1->2 shifts before were always a little tricky to make perfect.
- throttle response immediately off idle seems slower (in normal mode)...maybe this also makes the 1->2 shifts easier? no clue.
- is it quicker? don't know yet. running up through 6k or so it def seems more linear and smoother...the slightly slower off idle (like below 2k) makes it seem sluggish from a very low rpm. but once in the meat of the powerband, it feels peppier.

I will be driving the car a ton this weekend and will report back again. If my butt were to say what is different, i would say its smoother and makes lazy shifts around town easier...and that the new tune feels weaker down low but then more even through the midrange. Upper range i can't comment on...YET

i also only run 93 octane.

pm me where you got it done. and how much.
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      07-02-2012, 06:17 PM   #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeedInc View Post
Spent the last few days driving my car around... I miss the older version. My car feels slower then a prius now under 2k almost like the car only gets quarter throttle until above 2.5k and even then its flat until over 6.5k. Also before I would drive around in the normal power/throttle setting, and now sport plus feels like the old normal.
Under 2K?!? I NEVER drive it under 2k unless I'm taking off normal from a stop. This car is a dog under 3k. You're bogging the car and probably causing it to knock so the car is probably pulling massive amounts of timing.
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      07-02-2012, 06:20 PM   #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Under 2K?!? I NEVER drive it under 2k unless I'm taking off normal from a stop. This car is a dog under 3k. You're bogging the car and probably causing it to knock so the car is probably pulling massive amounts of timing.
Serious? massive amounts of knock.. ok
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      07-02-2012, 06:30 PM   #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeedInc View Post
Serious? massive amounts of knock.. ok
Yes, high load and low RPM can cause detonation. This could be the case for you and the car may be retarding timing to prevent it.

It is somewhat strange though. Most people in this thread seem to be experiencing power gains potentially created by this new software relaxing the knock limits. I am not sure why you are seemingly experiencing more stringent knock requirements with the new software.

Regardless, lugging the car under 2K is not good IMO.
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      07-03-2012, 08:48 AM   #474
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I just dropped off the car for a service. I requested they look into the DME and update it. We'll see if they do it or not. If so, I'm curious if I feel any difference.
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      07-03-2012, 10:06 AM   #475
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Not all sub-2k rpm driving is lugging the car. This is a 4l V8 powering a midsize car. While the torque is unexceptional, the aggressive gearing multiplies it effectively. I routinely drive my car sub-2k rpm, but I would not climb a mountain pass in 6th gear at that rpm (or in 5th, 4th, 3rd or 2nd). I have been driving for 30 years and have a pretty good feel for what is lugging and what is not lugging.
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      07-03-2012, 10:28 AM   #476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Under 2K?!? I NEVER drive it under 2k unless I'm taking off normal from a stop. This car is a dog under 3k. You're bogging the car and probably causing it to knock so the car is probably pulling massive amounts of timing.
The car really should not be any more prone to knock at low RPM/high load unless the programing is not proper. The ECU is going to apply the same algorithms everywhere to try to adjust timing properly.

I never drive under 2k unless I'm accelerating from a stop.
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      07-03-2012, 04:32 PM   #477
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Singletrack View Post
The car really should not be any more prone to knock at low RPM/high load unless the programing is not proper. The ECU is going to apply the same algorithms everywhere to try to adjust timing properly.

I never drive under 2k unless I'm accelerating from a stop.
The car IS more prone to knock at high load and low RPM though. In this situation, the throttle plate(s) is/are open quite a bit or all the way (worst case, this is a no-no). In this case, ambient pressure (or close to) is present in the intake tract. With this high pressure in the intake system, you have greater cylinder filling. The fuel and spark maps are not able to compensate for that much air at low RPM and high load conditions. This causes a lean condition and detonation. EGR alleviates this somewhat, but even with EGR, modern cars are still prone to this.

I hear Camrys do this all the time taking off from lights. My 350Z used to do it too. As soon as you get moving and the engine speed increases enough, no more detonation. It's definitely RPM dependent and I HIGHLY recommend not driving at high load and low RPM because the M3 will do it too (I've heard mine do it).
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      07-05-2012, 07:41 PM   #478
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ok - back with my second round of impressions.

like topspeedinc. i was skeptical and when i first picked the car up i was disappointed. From a dig the car felt sluggish, especially in 1st and 2nd gear. The curve def felt FLATTER until the upper register.

Since the first day, i've put 800 miles on the car. 650 due to a road trip with the family (so not really hammering it, but steady 4,5 and 6th gear hwy pulls and sustained "quick" speeds for hours). hmmm i thought, there def feels like there is more there. at low rpms in even 6th i felt more tug. and this was with a loaded car, AC on and 95 deg heat. kept driving and wasn't sure.

Today, did 150 HARD miles on my own. Again, with AC and in 95 deg heat. Its quicker. She now pulls like a banshee right from the beginning. I think the car is still adapting to my driving style etc. While with the 08 tune the curve seemed to have steps, lots of timing, then flat, then it would pick up, then would finally spike above 6500 - this tune is more refined, gives more low end torque and as such gives a steady pulling sensation till redline. i like it. I still think the 08 tune might have been a tiny bit more agressive right off idle, which made this little torqueless monster feel good, but i'll take the other improvements as a trade off.

Topspeedinc, i would try hammering the car and putting more miles on her. i use 93 octane only.
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      07-05-2012, 09:21 PM   #479
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my 07/08 DCT E92 M3 shows up Tuesday from Portland, I own a BMW shop, but it still has warranty left. I send the dealership a lot of "head ache" jobs that we dont have time for since we are a 3 bay shop. Will talk to my buddy/SA and have him check the VIN history. It was a one owner car and all the service was done at Kuni BMW, I have never owned a DCT car, so I plan on driving the car a week or two then get the update if it has not yet been performed on will report back..FYI we use Autologic and my BMW tech that worked at the dealership for 6 years likes the "flexibility" it has over the dealership's, if the dealership doesnt do it then I will.
Tom, I guess I go into CIP menu and read out the current info?? Oh Tom, this is Brian from Dr. Beemer in Austin, thanks for the awesome service on getting the Macht Schnell drop in filter...
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      07-06-2012, 09:56 AM   #480
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So my dealer refused to update my car since nothing was wrong with it...

My car is currently 220E and I flashed it back to stock awhile ago.

Evolve Automotive has sent me the update to the 231E.

I plan on going to the dyno next month. I'll try my best to provide valid data measuring the difference between 220E, 231E, and Evolve Automotive Stage 1 Tune.

I am honestly not expecting much between 220E and 231E, but curious none the less.
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      07-06-2012, 10:21 AM   #481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopSpeedInc View Post
Spent the last few days driving my car around... I miss the older version. My car feels slower then a prius now under 2k almost like the car only gets quarter throttle until above 2.5k and even then its flat until over 6.5k. Also before I would drive around in the normal power/throttle setting, and now sport plus feels like the old normal.
I completely agree. Had My DCT shifter replaced under warranty and they went ahead and reprogrammed entire vehicle as part of replacement. I immediately noticed that sport mode now felt like old normal mode. I don't like it. Oh well....
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      07-06-2012, 01:52 PM   #482
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Originally Posted by L4ces View Post
Engineering mentality... If it isn't broken then leave it. The risk is that something else could be affected by a simple change in software.
Sometimes this IS the best suggestion. I remember having issues with connectivity with a router on Comcast. Comcast suggested a firmware update for connection issues.

The update fixed the connection issues, but permanently disabled the wireless function. I ended up having to purchase a new router after the manufacturer was unable to repair the damage done by the update.

If it's not broken don't fix it is often the best idea. More often than you would suspect, the enemy of good is "better".

I'll agree with earlier posters that it isn't the software that costs, it is the time for your dealer to install the software update. While they may be charging a HUGE premium for it, it DOES take someone's time to do the flash-and check to make sure that no adverse effects occurred.
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      07-06-2012, 03:56 PM   #483
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I keep reading how people want the car to automatically select S mode instead of D when they start up their morning drive. I've never paid attention to this, but this morning after I reversed out of my garage and slapped the DCT lever to the right, my car starts out in S3. The last software update performed on my M3 was October 2010.
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      07-08-2012, 05:40 PM   #484
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As I mentioned before, a few days ago I got an oil change and new spark plugs. My car had 220E and 30,000miles. After the service, the car felt noticeably stronger. I think these cars are very sensitive to worn spark plugs.

I received the 231E software from Evolve Automotive. The car was flashed early this morning and so far with about 30 very hard miles. I ran all through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd repeatedly back to back. The car doesn't really feel any different than before.

These results were expected considering that I already had a fairly newer BMW software. I will be putting more miles on the car, so we'll see if I feel anything different.

I still have my Evolve Stage 1 Tune that's waiting to be flashed. I forgot to ask Evolve if I have to get an updated version of their tune as well for the 231E or if it's safe to just flash it. Looking back in hindsight, I felt a substantial difference with the Evolve tune, unlike the 231E update.
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