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      05-10-2012, 07:36 PM   #221
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Does the dynotesting above show that the 231E software is just as good as an Evolve tune on older software, or alternatively that an Evolve tune does nothing on 231E software?
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      05-10-2012, 07:38 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb
Does the dynotesting above show that the 231E software is just as good as an Evolve tune on older software, or alternatively that an Evolve tune does nothing on 231E software?
That what it seems to me...
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      05-10-2012, 07:38 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Does the dynotesting above show that the 231E software is just as good as an Evolve tune on older software, or alternatively that an Evolve tune does nothing on 231E software?
It appears that 231E software may be more difficult to extract power out of.

I guess that's a good thing, I'd want the factory calibration to be as strong as possible. Thumbs up to BMW for making such a vast improvement on the later versions as compared to the earlier ones.
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      05-10-2012, 07:46 PM   #224
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I got an '08. I have been bugging my local dealer to do the update forever and they wouldnt do it. Ive complained about everything you can imagine with no luck. So finally i went to my service adviser and told him look, my car dynod at 320hp - my car is weak! All the 11s and 12 dyno 350hp+. Slipped him $60 and he said ok ill ipdate it for you.

Got my car back today, yes the dct shiftig feels slightly different. Seems theres a slight lag from when you press the peddle to the actual shift, but when it does shift- it seems to shifter hardwr/faster. The car feels like its got a little more torque on the low end but i cant tell untill i go back on the dyno.

The biggest surprise? My edc is stiffer now on full sport + setting. This is something i have bot read about on the forums so it was a total shock to me driving home. But man i am loving sport mode right now. Feels like i got new shocks all around!!
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      05-10-2012, 08:00 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StylePoints View Post
I got an '08. I have been bugging my local dealer to do the update forever and they wouldnt do it. Ive complained about everything you can imagine with no luck. So finally i went to my service adviser and told him look, my car dynod at 320hp - my car is weak! All the 11s and 12 dyno 350hp+. Slipped him $60 and he said ok ill ipdate it for you.

Got my car back today, yes the dct shiftig feels slightly different. Seems theres a slight lag from when you press the peddle to the actual shift, but when it does shift- it seems to shifter hardwr/faster. The car feels like its got a little more torque on the low end but i cant tell untill i go back on the dyno.

The biggest surprise? My edc is stiffer now on full sport + setting. This is something i have bot read about on the forums so it was a total shock to me driving home. But man i am loving sport mode right now. Feels like i got new shocks all around!!
Haha - actually not a bad idea to slip the service writer some cash..

I have always tipped my guy when I receive great service. Just a token of appreciation.

I'm not surprised about the EDC change. When my car was updated awhile back it was obvious to me that some line pressures were changed in the braking system, and the brakes felt much firmer and had a better feel.

So updates do sometimes address a few things that normally go unnoticed.
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      05-10-2012, 08:17 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Please take the bring yourself up to date on Autologic's website:

http://autologic.us/en/pages/homepro...mw-diagnostics

Autologic is the only licensed 3rd party provider of BMW diagnostic tools I'm aware of. Most serious brick and mortar repair facilities will have one with accompanying hardware (power supply for voltage stabilization, OPS head for MOST programming, etc) in order to program. There is a yearly subscription fee in order to get updates, which are needed to keep current as updates/fixes are provided from BMW.

Autologic is also capable of updating/coding individual modules, which dealerships cannot do.

The game changes on new BMWs F-chassis BMWs are ethernet based. There's Byteflight. The list goes on. Autologic works closely with BMW and has a competently understanding of these tools and software, which is also used on its GUI. As stated before, it's dealer equivalent, with the addition of failsafes to minimize programming failures or use corrective measures to keep failures from appearing at all.

Another other option is to purchase authentic diagnostic hardware yourself and pay the $2500/year subscription fee through BMW's TIS program:

http://www.bmwtis.com/

Otherwise, most coding is performed via leaked/pirated versions of BMW software and Chinese ICOM/DCAN systems. A number of these pieces can be found on eBay, with subpar reliability rates.

Either will do the job, but all have one thing in common - they are merely tools.

The above-mentioned methods are completely worthless unless the individual using them knows how to use it, and what corrective measures to take when he (or others) makes a mistake in order to correct it. If you're in a jam, you need to know what it takes to correct it - and mistakes happen from time to time in any field.

I'm sure you're happy with Mike's services and that's perfectly fine. But please don't discredit a system, field or procedure you have completely no understanding about.
I've had Tom do some coding for me using his AutoLogic, and I have to say I was impressed with how fast and intuitive the system was. Although Tom states that mistakes can happen in any field, and I agree with him, I find it hard to see him ever making a mistake with the tool. The man knows how to use them, and the man uses them well. He also gave me the opportunity to see some before and afters with the OEM software, I think one of them were M3PO's since we were there on the same day, and I was fairly impressed with the gains, especially granted that it was all OEM software updates, not even a purchased OEM performance tune like the BMW Performance tune that they offer for 135i's and 335i's. Not touting one tool's superiority over the other here, just stating that the AutoLogic seems to be a capable tool based off of my previous experience with EAS.

Figured since I see lots of free opinion flying around, I was free to comment on my good experience with Tom and EAS. I personally have no reservations about having my car coded by EAS and their Autologic tool, I actually have to remember to contact EAS about possibly getting an MDM Euro-edition update so I can try it out on the track. I love trying out new things on the track.

Last edited by LateBraking; 05-10-2012 at 08:29 PM.
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      05-10-2012, 09:21 PM   #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom @ eas View Post
Please take the bring yourself up to date on Autologic's website:

http://autologic.us/en/pages/homepro...mw-diagnostics

Autologic is the only licensed 3rd party provider of BMW diagnostic tools I'm aware of. Most serious brick and mortar repair facilities will have one with accompanying hardware (power supply for voltage stabilization, OPS head for MOST programming, etc) in order to program. There is a yearly subscription fee in order to get updates, which are needed to keep current as updates/fixes are provided from BMW.

Autologic is also capable of updating/coding individual modules, which dealerships cannot do.

The game changes on new BMWs F-chassis BMWs are ethernet based. There's Byteflight. The list goes on. Autologic works closely with BMW and has a competently understanding of these tools and software, which is also used on its GUI. As stated before, it's dealer equivalent, with the addition of failsafes to minimize programming failures or use corrective measures to keep failures from appearing at all.

Another other option is to purchase authentic diagnostic hardware yourself and pay the $2500/year subscription fee through BMW's TIS program:

http://www.bmwtis.com/

Otherwise, most coding is performed via leaked/pirated versions of BMW software and Chinese ICOM/DCAN systems. A number of these pieces can be found on eBay, with subpar reliability rates.

Either will do the job, but all have one thing in common - they are merely tools.

The above-mentioned methods are completely worthless unless the individual using them knows how to use it, and what corrective measures to take when he (or others) makes a mistake in order to correct it. If you're in a jam, you need to know what it takes to correct it - and mistakes happen from time to time in any field.

I'm sure you're happy with Mike's services and that's perfectly fine. But please don't discredit a system, field or procedure you have completely no understanding about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
The Autologic is more capable than the dealer equipment is in many cases. I am not saying it is BETTER, but it is more capable, easier to use and cheaper to obtain. I can tell you this, I use it all the time.

Perpetuating information on this forum that the Autologic is not a dealer tool and therefor it should not be used isn't helpful to anyone here. It is a great tool, and behind dealer equipment (if you can afford and obtain the real thing and not the replica crap that is readily available for 1200 all over the internet), it is the only other tool we BMW guys trust.

Malek
Of course you're gonna defend the only tool you use, that's natural. Just not sure of the claims you wanna make about it.

I'm glad it works for you. I would prefer the use of the dealer tools as opposed to the Autologic if they are available. That's just personal preference I guess. You're awfully defensive about it though.
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      05-10-2012, 09:51 PM   #228
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Forgive my ignorance since I don't know coding, but whether you use OEM or AutoLogic or Made in China or whatever, what they do is the same thing right? According to those E90post guys, the options they access are actually in the car itself and it just turns things on and off right? It's not like, say, "installing a computer program on a computer", so like, rewriting the program inside, just simply changing on to off and off to on? If so, what's the significant differences between each of the tools? Is it just that they all use different means to approach the same solution?
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      05-10-2012, 10:01 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LateBraking View Post
Forgive me for asking since I don't understand coding, but whether you use OEM or AutoLogic or Made in China or whatever, what they do is the same thing right? Like, the options they access are actually in the car itself and it just turns things on and off right? It's not like, say, installing a computer program on a computer, so like, rewriting the program inside, just simply changing on to off and off to on? If so, what's the significant differences between each of the tools? Is it just that they all use different means to approach the same solution?
Let's please keep this thread on topic - there is no reason to discuss tools anymore. If I recall correctly I think I coded your racing seats awhile back
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      05-10-2012, 10:30 PM   #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Let's please keep this thread on topic - there is no reason to discuss tools anymore. If I recall correctly I think I coded your racing seats awhile back
You're right, I apologize. I mistakenly assumed that since the tools had already been discussed by multiple parties who use different ones, that it would be passable to reach out for an explanation on the topic. I was out of line, and I'll refrain from commenting on anything and everything not having to do with 231E software on this thread from hereon out. Sorry about that M3PO, good to see that you're getting great results with the up to date on software.

A software question if I may, I always thought that tuning was reprogramming the car with a whole new map, but is it actually just adding changes/corrections that stack onto the pre-existing map? So like, is the newer 231E stock tune just so improved that it's near a tuned 2008's performance? Or does tuning a 2008's ECU cause a different result than tuning a 231E programmed ECU?

Like I see on M3PO's dyno chart that he has multiple runs, including stock 2008 and 231E, then Evolve tuned 2008 and 231E. Does that mean he had a Evolve tuned 2008 map and a Evolve tuned 231E? Or does that mean that the Evolve tuning is the "same" in each instance and the difference is in his 2008 map and the 231E map? Hope my question makes some sort of sense, maybe Evolve can chime in.

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      05-11-2012, 12:31 AM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LateBraking View Post
You're right, I apologize. I mistakenly assumed that since the tools had already been discussed by multiple parties who use different ones, that it would be passable to reach out for an explanation on the topic. I was out of line, and I'll refrain from commenting on anything and everything not having to do with 231E software on this thread from hereon out. Sorry about that M3PO, good to see that you're getting great results with the up to date on software.

A software question if I may, I always thought that tuning was reprogramming the car with a whole new map, but is it actually just adding changes/corrections that stack onto the pre-existing map? So like, is the newer 231E stock tune just so improved that it's near a tuned 2008's performance? Or does tuning a 2008's ECU cause a different result than tuning a 231E programmed ECU?

Like I see on M3PO's dyno chart that he has multiple runs, including stock 2008 and 231E, then Evolve tuned 2008 and 231E. Does that mean he had a Evolve tuned 2008 map and a Evolve tuned 231E? Or does that mean that the Evolve tuning is the "same" in each instance and the difference is in his 2008 map and the 231E map? Hope my question makes some sort of sense, maybe Evolve can chime in.
No worries.. not a big deal sir. Just want to keep it on track if possible.

To answer your questions:
There are many 'maps' in every factory calibration. The file sizes for all software versions are exactly the same. There is the same amount of 'data'. The 'data' area in the M3 is 128KB, and the full Program plus data (calibration) area is just over 5MB. Granted a portion of these areas are filled with FF (filler) values to maintain the proper file size.

When you get a software tune, specific maps are modified based on what the tuner wants to do. There are maps for fueling, timing, vanos, knock sensitivity, etc... Expanding on this further there are part throttle fuel maps, full throttle fuel maps, timing aim maps at part throttle, timing at full throttle, etc... There are tons and tons of maps - I would be here all day if I listed them all.

The OP started with 100E software which is factory BMW software. Sal tuned it, and gained some power by modifying these 'maps'.

Then the OP had newer 231E software fitted, which is also factory BMW software. There was a serious power gain between this and the old version. In fact, the gain was greater than with what was gained from the 100E software with the modified 'tuned' maps.

The final stage was modifying the 231E software to include the 'tuned' maps.

Now, between software versions (at least the later ones as I have no reason to poke around in 80E or 100E and would never use these as a base for a tune) it appears that the map data is the same for the most part. This means that the NON map locations in the DME (meaning the actual program code or 'operating system' per se) of the DME was most likely modified by BMW between versions. The gain that was had could be directly attributed to such changes. 231E might simply be harder to extract power from, because it's a much better starting point than previous versions. It makes more power to begin with, modifying the maps in the same way doesn't appear to achieve the same gain.


I hope this clears up any confusion, let me know if there is anything else I can help clarify. I tried to simplify the explanation as much as possible.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 05-11-2012 at 01:00 AM.
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      05-11-2012, 12:12 PM   #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LateBraking View Post
I've had Tom do some coding for me using his AutoLogic, and I have to say I was impressed with how fast and intuitive the system was. Although Tom states that mistakes can happen in any field, and I agree with him, I find it hard to see him ever making a mistake with the tool. The man knows how to use them, and the man uses them well. He also gave me the opportunity to see some before and afters with the OEM software, I think one of them were M3PO's since we were there on the same day, and I was fairly impressed with the gains, especially granted that it was all OEM software updates, not even a purchased OEM performance tune like the BMW Performance tune that they offer for 135i's and 335i's. Not touting one tool's superiority over the other here, just stating that the AutoLogic seems to be a capable tool based off of my previous experience with EAS.

Figured since I see lots of free opinion flying around, I was free to comment on my good experience with Tom and EAS. I personally have no reservations about having my car coded by EAS and their Autologic tool, I actually have to remember to contact EAS about possibly getting an MDM Euro-edition update so I can try it out on the track. I love trying out new things on the track.
No worries. Understanding the facts about the tools is part of understanding how all of this works. What we don't need is bickering. This isn't 'my' thread, it's the internet so I'm not gonna be upset about it evolving. My main goal has just been to share my experience for the benefit of the community.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
No worries.. not a big deal sir. Just want to keep it on track if possible.

To answer your questions:
There are many 'maps' in every factory calibration. The file sizes for all software versions are exactly the same. There is the same amount of 'data'. The 'data' area in the M3 is 128KB, and the full Program plus data (calibration) area is just over 5MB. Granted a portion of these areas are filled with FF (filler) values to maintain the proper file size.

When you get a software tune, specific maps are modified based on what the tuner wants to do. There are maps for fueling, timing, vanos, knock sensitivity, etc... Expanding on this further there are part throttle fuel maps, full throttle fuel maps, timing aim maps at part throttle, timing at full throttle, etc... There are tons and tons of maps - I would be here all day if I listed them all.

The OP started with 100E software which is factory BMW software. Sal tuned it, and gained some power by modifying these 'maps'.

Then the OP had newer 231E software fitted, which is also factory BMW software. There was a serious power gain between this and the old version. In fact, the gain was greater than with what was gained from the 100E software with the modified 'tuned' maps.

The final stage was modifying the 231E software to include the 'tuned' maps.

Now, between software versions (at least the later ones as I have no reason to poke around in 80E or 100E and would never use these as a base for a tune) it appears that the map data is the same for the most part. This means that the NON map locations in the DME (meaning the actual program code or 'operating system' per se) of the DME was most likely modified by BMW between versions. The gain that was had could be directly attributed to such changes. 231E might simply be harder to extract power from, because it's a much better starting point than previous versions. It makes more power to begin with, modifying the maps in the same way doesn't appear to achieve the same gain.


I hope this clears up any confusion, let me know if there is anything else I can help clarify. I tried to simplify the explanation as much as possible.
Mike's description is correct. Basically, I dynoed stock 100E, tuned 100E, stock 231E (twice), and tuned 231E. Tuned 100E made great gains over stock 100E. Stock 231E made a bit more than tuned 100E. Tuned 231E didn't make much more than stock 231E, if any.
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      05-11-2012, 12:40 PM   #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
Mike's description is correct. Basically, I dynoed stock 100E, tuned 100E, stock 231E (twice), and tuned 231E. Tuned 100E made great gains over stock 100E. Stock 231E made a bit more than tuned 100E. Tuned 231E didn't make much more than stock 231E, if any.
Gotcha. And thank you Mike for the explanation, so basically Evolve changed the maps, and that map change was the same, and BMW made changes that made power, which were not map-related. I'm still slightly confused on how that works, but no need to explain further, I'm sure that if someone had to explain it in-depth we'd be here for months.
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      05-11-2012, 12:44 PM   #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LateBraking View Post
Gotcha. And thank you Mike for the explanation, so basically Evolve changed the maps, and that map change was the same, and BMW made changes that made power, which were not map-related. I'm still slightly confused on how that works, but no need to explain further, I'm sure that if someone had to explain it in-depth we'd be here for months.
Right. It seems that the maps/data have not changed (at least not recently, since 220E). It's the program area that appears to have been changed. Probably some changes related to knock sensitivity.
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      05-11-2012, 02:53 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
Of course you're gonna defend the only tool you use, that's natural. Just not sure of the claims you wanna make about it.

I'm glad it works for you. I would prefer the use of the dealer tools as opposed to the Autologic if they are available. That's just personal preference I guess. You're awfully defensive about it though.
I don't own an Autologic, I said I use one, which I have access to at any time. With that said, it is a very easy tool to use.

You attempted to discredit a tool you don't have experience with and making it sound inferior. "Autological thing". I'm not the type to want to get into an argument over the internet, however discrediting a great tool without merit isn't helpful.

Back on topic.
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      05-11-2012, 03:01 PM   #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malekreza11 View Post
I don't own an Autologic, I said I use one, which I have access to at any time. With that said, it is a very easy tool to use.

You attempted to discredit a tool you don't have experience with and making it sound inferior. "Autological thing". I'm not the type to want to get into an argument over the internet, however discrediting a great tool without merit isn't helpful.

Back on topic.
So now you're attempting to tell me what I know and don't know about something? Just cause I asked Tom to tell us why he likes it so much, doesn't mean I am oblivious to the unit. You have no idea what knowledge I have in regard to it. Feel free to defend the tool all you like. I thought it was neat the first time I saw it. But please don't think you can begin to lecture me on my experience with something.
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      05-11-2012, 03:14 PM   #237
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Does anyone know if BMW got rid of the seatbelt for DCT, i hate the fact i have to put on the seat belt before it will go into gear if i have to move the car out of the garage really quick.
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      05-11-2012, 04:37 PM   #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmntmn View Post
Does anyone know if BMW got rid of the seatbelt for DCT, i hate the fact i have to put on the seat belt before it will go into gear if i have to move the car out of the garage really quick.
That restriction is not in place in 231E.
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      05-11-2012, 04:40 PM   #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmntmn View Post
Does anyone know if BMW got rid of the seatbelt for DCT, i hate the fact i have to put on the seat belt before it will go into gear if i have to move the car out of the garage really quick.
Some forum members mentioned that BMW fixed this a bit after it was introduced.
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      05-11-2012, 05:22 PM   #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Some forum members mentioned that BMW fixed this a bit after it was introduced.
Thanks for the update, i need to take my car to the dealer soon!
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      05-11-2012, 05:22 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0da View Post
That restriction is not in place in 231E.
Thanks!
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      05-11-2012, 07:39 PM   #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m0da View Post
That restriction is not in place in 231E.
This actually has nothing to do with 231E, but the DCT transmission software that is loaded. Dealers loading 231E should theoretically be flashing the latest DCT version which contains the fix - but an independent facility would have to manually update both if they don't flash the entire car with the latest versions.
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