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      04-11-2012, 12:14 PM   #1
DARK_M3
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Question about suspension/brake components

Let me first say that I am new to the M3 and gaining familiarity slowly. I don't plan to track the car as I have done with previous vehicles. If anything, I will probably do it once a year if that just for a bit of fun.

With that in mind, my previous car (370z) was tracked minimally at between 2-3 times a year. I had done things like oil cooler (I know the M3 has one standard, why Nissan couldn't do this is beyond me) - SS brake lines - Motul RBF600 brake fluid - Hawk pads - full coilover suspension and sway bars. I would run the OEM rubber. Having stepped into the M3 my question is, is the M3 well suited for spirited drives and the maybe once a year track day as is in stock form? I have a neighbor up the street with a Ferrari California who says "I wouldn't do anything to the (his) car as I think they (in his case Ferrari) know better how to build a car than I do." Does that same mindset hold true for the M?

I was thinking of doing some minimal bolt on type of power modification such as exhaust (I already dropped in a aftermarket air filter) but what about suspension? With a car that has different variations of dampening control, does it really make sense for someone like me to add adjustable coilovers? Or even sway bars? Since I don't plan to visit the track I wasn't seriously considering the coils but I was considering adding some aftermarket, stiffer sways and possibly some SS brake lines. Also, I wanted to possibly add a set of H&R springs (or something else possibly) in order to give the car of bit of drop but don't want to sacrifice handling ability.

Thoughts?
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      04-11-2012, 12:51 PM   #2
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My recommendation would be to spend some time studying the Dinan website. They have the suspension parts - springs, mounts and sway bars - that you're looking for and it's all debugged and ready to install. As for the driveline - I'd put the factory paper filter back in before too much dirt gets in the engine. The only thing that aftermarket air filters increase on the S65 is the risk of damage.
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      04-11-2012, 12:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
My recommendation would be to spend some time studying the Dinan website. They have the suspension parts - springs, mounts and sway bars - that you're looking for and it's all debugged and ready to install. As for the driveline - I'd put the factory paper filter back in before too much dirt gets in the engine. The only thing that aftermarket air filters increase on the S65 is the risk of damage.
Noted. Thanks.
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      04-11-2012, 01:00 PM   #4
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My thinking if you're only going once a year, then I'd just go with stock set-up. Even the stock brakes in 100 degF Texas weather held up pretty well. That being said, if you want to make a couple of minor tweaks, then go with SS lines, Motul, and performance pads of your choosing.
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      04-11-2012, 02:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
My recommendation would be to spend some time studying the Dinan website. They have the suspension parts - springs, mounts and sway bars - that you're looking for and it's all debugged and ready to install. As for the driveline - I'd put the factory paper filter back in before too much dirt gets in the engine. The only thing that aftermarket air filters increase on the S65 is the risk of damage.
Do you have a reference for that statement? You quote the Dinan website (for suspension) which is a company that sells an aftermarket intake equipped with an aftermarket filter. I'm not saying your wrong but if you make a statement such as the one above you need to support it with a)examples where a filter caused debris to enter the engine, b) first hand experience of this happening.
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      04-11-2012, 03:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAJ View Post
My recommendation would be to spend some time studying the Dinan website. They have the suspension parts - springs, mounts and sway bars - that you're looking for and it's all debugged and ready to install. As for the driveline - I'd put the factory paper filter back in before too much dirt gets in the engine. The only thing that aftermarket air filters increase on the S65 is the risk of damage.
Wrong. In more ways than one.

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Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
My thinking if you're only going once a year, then I'd just go with stock set-up. Even the stock brakes in 100 degF Texas weather held up pretty well. That being said, if you want to make a couple of minor tweaks, then go with SS lines, Motul, and performance pads of your choosing.
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      04-11-2012, 03:43 PM   #7
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I too have had nothing but great experience with an aftermarket air filter with higher flow than OEM. Not to get off topic with this but past oil analysis on other vehicles have found nothing abnormal when running an aftermarket filter (of course I always tend to run magnetic oil drain plug along with a magnet on the filter) but that's for metal not dirt. Plus I have gotten some degree of HP gains as well.

I'm not going to stress over the intake filter and get back to the topic at hand. I guess I'm mainly wondering:

1. Are sways worth it?
2. Will stiffer/lowering springs hurt performance on the M3? (I'm not looking to slam or anything just give it a nicer stance)
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      04-11-2012, 03:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK_M3 View Post
Let me first say that I am new to the M3 and gaining familiarity slowly. I don't plan to track the car as I have done with previous vehicles. If anything, I will probably do it once a year if that just for a bit of fun.

With that in mind, my previous car (370z) was tracked minimally at between 2-3 times a year. I had done things like oil cooler (I know the M3 has one standard, why Nissan couldn't do this is beyond me) - SS brake lines - Motul RBF600 brake fluid - Hawk pads - full coilover suspension and sway bars. I would run the OEM rubber. Having stepped into the M3 my question is, is the M3 well suited for spirited drives and the maybe once a year track day as is in stock form?

Thoughts?
To answer your specific question, the M3 is a fantastic car out of the box for spirited driving and the track. I'm on stock EDC suspension, and I don't feel i'm missing out on the track. If you plan to do a couple days a year of tracking, then don't bother changing anything, other than maybe your brake pads and fluid. The M3 is supremely competent in stock form for spirited driving and the occasional track day.
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      04-11-2012, 04:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shizzle View Post
To answer your specific question, the M3 is a fantastic car out of the box for spirited driving and the track. I'm on stock EDC suspension, and I don't feel i'm missing out on the track. If you plan to do a couple days a year of tracking, then don't bother changing anything, other than maybe your brake pads and fluid. The M3 is supremely competent in stock form for spirited driving and the occasional track day.
I'm getting this feeling in my daily drive with this car. Amazing machine! Naturally I would swap out the pads and fluids for a track day.


For those people running a muli-way adjustable coilover setup, do they just run the M3's dampening control on one setting and just adjust the coilovers to suit the needs of the track/street? Seems like a lot going on since the car already has several adjustments. Just wondering even though this won't really relate to my specific needs.
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      04-12-2012, 12:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinbo View Post
Do you have a reference for that statement? You quote the Dinan website (for suspension) which is a company that sells an aftermarket intake equipped with an aftermarket filter. I'm not saying your wrong but if you make a statement such as the one above you need to support it with a)examples where a filter caused debris to enter the engine, b) first hand experience of this happening.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

Basically, all filters performed the same as far as air restriction was concerned, and the oiled foam filters let in marginally more dirt.

My message when I suggested switching back to paper was based on a fairly broad assessment. First, it isn't that "high performance" filters like K&N (and their work-alikes) don't work, it's that they don't work better. Second, there have been problems in the past on BMW's with the edge seal on some aftermarket "performance" filters not fitting precisely into the filter housing, allowing dirt to go past the filter. I don't know if any M3 products have this problem or not, but why take the risk when there's no performance gain? It makes no sense.

As for selecting suspension parts, if you check out my other suspension posts, you know I don't have any fear about building a complete suspension out of bits and pieces from various manufacturers. The good thing with Dinan (and with KW as well) is that they integrate their kits so they fit properly and work properly. If you'd prefer not to hit the "Easy Button" there are lots of components and manufacturers to choose from.
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      04-12-2012, 12:24 AM   #11
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I had EDC with the competition package. I recently upgraded to KW V3's and I feel like they are worlds better on the track and on the street. When I went over bumpy roads with my stock suspension, the car would bounce all over the place (even in comfort mode). The KW's do an amazing job absorbing the bumps and the car just feels more planted. Body roll has also been significantly reduced. With the stock suspension, you turn and half a second later the car would start to turn in. Now it turns in almost instantaneously. I have compression and rebound set in the middle on all 4 corners and the car still feels very comfortable on the street yet stiffer and more composed. Probably the best mod I have done to the car.

The stock brakes work really great on the street. If you track the car once a year, they will be just fine for that as well. I can say I feel no difference in stopping power when comparing my brembos to stock. If there is a difference, I'd never know without measuring. The track is a different story. I just did 2 track days in the past week and I'm pretty sure my stock pads and rotors would be getting replaced by now.
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      04-12-2012, 01:12 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I had EDC with the competition package. I recently upgraded to KW V3's and I feel like they are worlds better on the track and on the street. When I went over bumpy roads with my stock suspension, the car would bounce all over the place (even in comfort mode). The KW's do an amazing job absorbing the bumps and the car just feels more planted. Body roll has also been significantly reduced. With the stock suspension, you turn and half a second later the car would start to turn in. Now it turns in almost instantaneously. I have compression and rebound set in the middle on all 4 corners and the car still feels very comfortable on the street yet stiffer and more composed. Probably the best mod I have done to the car.

The stock brakes work really great on the street. If you track the car once a year, they will be just fine for that as well. I can say I feel no difference in stopping power when comparing my brembos to stock. If there is a difference, I'd never know without measuring. The track is a different story. I just did 2 track days in the past week and I'm pretty sure my stock pads and rotors would be getting replaced by now.
It sounds like the KW V3's are the way to go to improve overall performance. Do you still utilize any different settings as far as the M's dampening control or do you just leave it on one setting since you run the KW's?
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      04-12-2012, 01:16 AM   #13
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Also, and I know this had probably been beat to death but what's with the single piston calipers? I mean I'm sure BMW's M division had good reason for that setup but I've never experienced that before. My Evo had multi piston Brembos and my 370z had multi piston Akebonos. (which were a breeze to swap pads btw)
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      04-12-2012, 01:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK_M3 View Post
It sounds like the KW V3's are the way to go to improve overall performance. Do you still utilize any different settings as far as the M's dampening control or do you just leave it on one setting since you run the KW's?
EDC won't work once you install the coilovers. That's the trade-off. You'll also have to remove the EDC error as well. Can be done via coding or some sort of module that tricks the system into thinking EDC is fine (I think that's how it works). KW and Macht Schnell both make a module. I'm getting mine coded out.
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      04-12-2012, 01:23 AM   #15
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EDC won't work once you install the coilovers. That's the trade-off. You'll also have to remove the EDC error as well. Can be done via coding or some sort of module that tricks the system into thinking EDC is fine (I think that's how it works). KW and Macht Schnell both make a module. I'm getting mine coded out.
Ahh gotcha.
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      04-12-2012, 02:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DARK_M3 View Post
Also, and I know this had probably been beat to death but what's with the single piston calipers? I mean I'm sure BMW's M division had good reason for that setup but I've never experienced that before. My Evo had multi piston Brembos and my 370z had multi piston Akebonos. (which were a breeze to swap pads btw)
BMW M has a budget to work within and after they invested serious money in the engine and significant money in the suspension they had to be creative with the brakes, so they nipped over to the 5-Series department and nicked the brake calipers out of their parts bin.

They're less expensive than multi-piston, they have fewer moving parts to go wrong, and frankly they work pretty well too. Brakes are pretty simple devices, and so long as the calipers don't flex you can convert fluid pressure into friction pretty efficiently.

It's not that you can't do better with multi-piston fixed calipers, it's just that it costs more, and once they'd solved the bling problem with holy rotors, the vast majority of M3 owners just don't care about the calipers.
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      04-12-2012, 08:14 PM   #17
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BMW M has a budget to work within and after they invested serious money in the engine and significant money in the suspension they had to be creative with the brakes, so they nipped over to the 5-Series department and nicked the brake calipers out of their parts bin.

They're less expensive than multi-piston, they have fewer moving parts to go wrong, and frankly they work pretty well too. Brakes are pretty simple devices, and so long as the calipers don't flex you can convert fluid pressure into friction pretty efficiently.

It's not that you can't do better with multi-piston fixed calipers, it's just that it costs more, and once they'd solved the bling problem with holy rotors, the vast majority of M3 owners just don't care about the calipers.
Lol it's true. Everyone looks at those holy rotors! I admit, I do too!
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