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      04-02-2012, 07:21 AM   #1
Chemicals
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To go forced induction, or not to go forced induction...that is the question!

So here is the background info.

2008 E92 M3. It is currently stock minus apex wheels and HR sport plus springs. I really like the ability to mess with the EDC, so until I mess with that I won't go with coilovers (or until something in the EDC breaks and isn't worth the money to replace versus KW V3s).

As far as brakes go, I figured the stock are fine until I track it some more. I don't want to spend the $$ on a BBK that I will just not fully utilize and it will corrode, chew through pads, etc. on normal street driving/few track days PLUS add more of a headache in general.

So I was thinking what is it that completes my car in my eyes...it was more power. I did the math looking at getting a full TI exhaust with Cats and Tune brining up power about 30 HP for about $7k.

The alternative seemed to be dropping 8-9k for the baseline Stage 1 Supercharger that VF offers, Ess, etc. They are all based off the vortech anyways, and offer a tune as part of the package (generally).

The only thing that worries me is my engine. It is at 57k miles and I bought it used (got a great deal, everything was perfect in the car just as I wanted it, package, color, everything). I was thinking at this point it might be a waste to boost an engine that is already approaching 60k miles. Any opinions on the pros and cons? I was thinking I could boost it until I destroy it, if I am going to keep this car for a while, and hopefully buy a cheap replacement motor off E-bay or just bite the bullet and order a new one. I am just thinking hypothetically worse/best scenario for an install of a stage 1 vs exhaust and tune, as well as the opinions you guys have on if I should wait until this engine fails THEN go the customization route, or just go Big now.
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      04-02-2012, 07:24 AM   #2
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If I recall correctly, IND at least will make sure your engine is strong before they go ahead with forced induction. Also, there was a guy on here who SC'ed at 50+K miles and had no problems.
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      04-02-2012, 09:05 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemicals View Post
I was thinking I could boost it until I destroy it, if I am going to keep this car for a while, and hopefully buy a cheap replacement motor off E-bay or just bite the bullet and order a new one.
Not so many used E92 M3 engines off e-bay....and a new one costs about 25k, which is going to be more than the value of your car pretty soon.
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      04-02-2012, 09:38 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brava09 View Post
Not so many used E92 M3 engines off e-bay....and a new one costs about 25k, which is going to be more than the value of your car pretty soon.
I saw 2 hovering around 8k each on ebay a month or two ago. I am hoping as the E92 becomes the "old car" parts for it will be more plentiful like the E46 seems to be. Ebaying for E46 motors is much more lucrative.

Very depressing to imagine blowing this engine. I could afford it, but it would just feel like such a waste.
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      04-02-2012, 09:55 AM   #5
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just do a compression test on the motor and it will tell you if your engine is healthy or not. If all is good deff do FI with whatever company you like.
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      04-02-2012, 10:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajvee View Post
If I recall correctly, IND at least will make sure your engine is strong before they go ahead with forced induction. Also, there was a guy on here who SC'ed at 50+K miles and had no problems.
that was me, sc it with a 535 kit at a little over 50k, ran it for another 30k with no issues then i sold the car
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      04-02-2012, 10:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell
You won't really get a cheap replacement motor on ebay... having said that, I don't think you'll need one.

Also, folks with SC's will tell you to do it.... the other group will tell you not to mess with the engine. At the end of the day it's your call... both sides will have valid arguments.
Agreed.
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      04-02-2012, 10:56 AM   #8
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also if you go with a SC you will soon want the full exhaust as well to maximize it potential so will end up spending money there also. best way to go is good catless or HFC cat mid pipe and the SC.
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      04-02-2012, 12:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriszeh View Post
also if you go with a SC you will soon want the full exhaust as well to maximize it potential so will end up spending money there also. best way to go is good catless or HFC cat mid pipe and the SC.
It just seemed like the best bang for the buck *in order to reach about 500 HP* to get the st1 Supercharger. I am leaning ESS and just making a road trip to arizona for fun on a weekend.

I was also considering the bonus of having an excuse to get a Dinan Stroker if I do end up accidently destroying my engine...

I also want to stay emissions legal. I plan on driving this car into the ground.
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      04-02-2012, 12:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Won't work... if you blow your engine I seriously doubt Dinan would want to have the core as a deposit. If they don't take your engine, you are looking at a lot more money than $25K.
Dinan's site mentions 20k with core, 25k without. Am I reading that wrong? I am still very undecided about boosting this engine because it is higher mileage. If the engine does fail eventually, a supercharger should be able to install again anyways right?

I think I just need a general feeling I won't lose the value of the supercharger if I can re-install it later.
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Last edited by Chemicals; 04-02-2012 at 12:36 PM.
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      04-02-2012, 12:39 PM   #11
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if money isnt an issue, just due a full ess motor build and s/c kit!
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      04-02-2012, 12:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex@AUTOcouture View Post
if money isnt an issue, just due a full ess motor build and s/c kit!
What would the build cost by itself from ESS?
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      04-02-2012, 12:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemicals View Post
What would the build cost by itself from ESS?
Almost as much as the car is worth
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      04-02-2012, 01:34 PM   #14
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What would the build cost by itself from ESS?
honestly not sure, i think in the 20k range
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      04-03-2012, 09:46 AM   #15
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At 57k miles your car is just broken in. It's your call but I supercharged my old e46 m3 and it had 130k miles when I did it. Ran it hard, tracked it you name it, put on like another 40-45k of hard driving and never had any issues. Maintenance plays a very important role here
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      04-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #16
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At 57k miles your car is just broken in. It's your call but I supercharged my old e46 m3 and it had 130k miles when I did it. Ran it hard, tracked it you name it, put on like another 40-45k of hard driving and never had any issues. Maintenance plays a very important role here
You mean like, maintenance beyond the regular oil changes, services and what not? Any chance you could expound on that last part.
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      04-03-2012, 10:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemicals View Post

I was also considering the bonus of having an excuse to get a Dinan Stroker if I do end up accidently destroying my engine...

I also want to stay emissions legal. I plan on driving this car into the ground.
i too am thinking of a dinan stroker if my engine fails at some point. might as well right at same price as the bmw unit.
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      04-03-2012, 11:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
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You mean like, maintenance beyond the regular oil changes, services and what not?
Yes that's exactly it, oil changes more often, fluids, good spark plugs, etc. Some gauges to monitor some systems would also help. Once you go F/I it would help a lot to actually be more involved in knowing your car, how everything works etc, specially how the kit runs or it's supposed to run. Lack of basic knowledege, maintenace, fluids, etc could be very costly. By no means I'm saying to be paranoid but more alert of any changes in how the car is running.
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      04-03-2012, 12:36 PM   #19
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No, the core is 20k not five, says so on their product page right here -----> http://www.dinancars.com/shop/D850-1...ne.aspx#page=1 and then if you start digging into the fine print I'm pretty sure you will see it isn't just a core, its an acceptable core. The question then being what is acceptable?


Edit... A little more digging, here is the language cut and paste follows....

Some Dinan products are sold on an exchange basis and a refundable core deposit is added to the price of the item on the invoice, reflecting the replacement cost of the core item. The amount of the refundable core deposit for applicable products is listed as a footnote after the retail price of each item. An item returned under the core exchange program is eligible for a full refund of the core deposit when it meets the following criteria:
The word “core” is prominently displayed on the carton.
The core is accompanied by a copy of the original Dinan invoice.
The core is returned within 30 days of receipt of the original shipment by the dealer.
The core is fully functional and is for the specific make, model, and year car as the item supplied by Dinan.
The core is in good condition (can be reused) and has not been modified in any way.

Cores returned to Dinan that do not meet the above criteria, or are damaged in any way, will be returned to the dealer and the core deposit considered forfeited.
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      04-03-2012, 01:38 PM   #20
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No, the core is 20k not five, says so on their product page right here -----> http://www.dinancars.com/shop/D850-1...ne.aspx#page=1 and then if you start digging into the fine print I'm pretty sure you will see it isn't just a core, its an acceptable core. The question then being what is acceptable?


Edit... A little more digging, here is the language cut and paste follows....

Some Dinan products are sold on an exchange basis and a refundable core deposit is added to the price of the item on the invoice, reflecting the replacement cost of the core item. The amount of the refundable core deposit for applicable products is listed as a footnote after the retail price of each item. An item returned under the core exchange program is eligible for a full refund of the core deposit when it meets the following criteria:
The word “core” is prominently displayed on the carton.
The core is accompanied by a copy of the original Dinan invoice.
The core is returned within 30 days of receipt of the original shipment by the dealer.
The core is fully functional and is for the specific make, model, and year car as the item supplied by Dinan.
The core is in good condition (can be reused) and has not been modified in any way.

Cores returned to Dinan that do not meet the above criteria, or are damaged in any way, will be returned to the dealer and the core deposit considered forfeited.
"The engine is supplied as an assembled long-block, fully prepared to directly replace the stock engine without modification"- I took this to mean that the $25,999 price was for the entire engine, no core provided. The 5-6k discount for providing a suitable core is 5-6k thus resulting in the $20k price.

Am I reading that incorrectly?

Also- Much thanks for the tips so far. Helping me with decision alot.
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      04-03-2012, 02:44 PM   #21
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I would do f/I instead. You could always take it off, sell it and sell/trade the car later and recover some of the money or not loose as much.
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      04-03-2012, 03:55 PM   #22
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Here you go :
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664367
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