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      01-30-2014, 06:14 PM   #441
Sal@Evolve
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Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post



Billet S62 Mani = Big Power, cannot wait to see what kinda power you put down with your headers & some quality tuning
Thanks!

We already did the following supercharger setups on the S62:

5 PSi - 530 crank stock car
7 PSi - 580 crank with Evolve S62 Headers
8 PSi - 590 crank with Evolve Headers (notice the boost not doing much now.... plenum... see next)
6.5 PSi - 660 crank with Evolve build engine, Evolve headers, 268 Cams, Evolve Modified Cyl heads (This was one super efficient engine requiring serious airflow)

6.25 PSi - 620 crank, evolve headers, evolve supercharger optimised billet plenum

We think we can get close to 700 crank with bringing the blower closer to it's limit with the built engine cammed car above using the billet plenum.
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      01-30-2014, 06:20 PM   #442
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Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Unless you are well-versed with the full feature set of the Procede, I don't really think you can call it "garbage". While you are entitled to your opinion, unless you've owned one have used it, I don't really think you're in a position to speak on it. No offense meant by that, of course.
The PROcede is garbage. Read about how "successful" it's been on previous platforms that Vishnu supported and how they repeatedly had issues with tune quality. Piggybacks gained lots of traction in the BMW community because of the turbo N54/N55 motors -- The tune is cheap and is only capable of adding boost (also can manage meth, but no real tuning changes), and that's why Burger Tuning + Vishnu both require flash tunes for their higher power cars. While I am not well versed specifically in the PROcedes features, I am informed about what a piggyback is & isn't capable of and that explains why it's not very popular (or common) on the S65. There's a reason you can't find a lot of user dyno threads or most people who had it, have switched over to flash tunes.

Like I stated, NONE of the performance tables that matter can be changed with a piggyback. AND if you look at that thread, other members agree that tuning for meth is a formula for disaster. Also, you should look into other platforms that have more data on meth use. It is known to be corrosive on cylinder walls and thins oil very quickly.
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      01-30-2014, 06:20 PM   #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
You already have this one:



Looks different in silver doesn't it!

The M5 and M3 Billet plenums are made to very similar principles especially with respect to achieving equal distribution or charge across cylinders (internal fins).
*lol* I *really* like the mechanical look that the rivets/bolts provide. The nuance/vibe it gives off is completely different.
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      01-30-2014, 06:30 PM   #444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Very good discussion here.

The first part is directly inline with our tests, methanol does not add much power at all unless tuned specifically for (not a great idea).

The second part however very interesting. How much power did you lose?
Sure it wasn't the regular over/under correcting correction factors taking effect?

Doesn't make any sensor for the engine to lose any power unless the inlet temp went so low that you ended up in compensation table cell where ignition is removed with low IAT's but normal coolant temps. This is however highly unlikely.

We have tested our intercoolers with no front panel on the car and ramming (close range powerful fan setup) ice cold air at them and we only gained power.

So we have only seen the regular laws of physics being followed like you have seen on the N54.
Hi Sal,

I wish I had a data logger to view EGTs and other factors as generally speaking, my dyno's show a negative correlation between IATs and power. I've done nearly 90 dyno's at EAS. Tom and Steve and I just scratch our heads because the limited data we get does us no good.

I've given up trying to control IATs to sustain power in all conditions. From my VBox info, DA's is the only thing that matters. I've never had such a fickle car. It's pig slow in warm daytime weather and a raped ape on cold nights. But when I drop in some water/meth on a hot day it's still a slow pig even though IATs could be actually lower than on a cold night.

Sorry didn't mean to thread derail.
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      01-30-2014, 06:38 PM   #445
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No no.. it's a good discussion that also helps us talk about overall development we did.

From what you are saying is that the methanol is not working and warm weather makes the car slow. At the same time forcing lower IAT with ice is also not doing anything.

Did you log ignition timing and throttle angle?

We have dyno tested our cars during summer and the very bitter winters here now. The difference was small with the inter cooler, huge without.

I can show you how to test something very interesting! PM me.
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      01-30-2014, 06:45 PM   #446
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post
The PROcede is garbage. Read about how "successful" it's been on previous platforms that Vishnu supported and how they repeatedly had issues with tune quality. Piggybacks gained lots of traction in the BMW community because of the turbo N54/N55 motors -- The tune is cheap and is only capable of adding boost (also can manage meth, but no real tuning changes), and that's why Burger Tuning + Vishnu both require flash tunes for their higher power cars. While I am not well versed specifically in the PROcedes features, I am informed about what a piggyback is & isn't capable of and that explains why it's not very popular (or common) on the S65. There's a reason you can't find a lot of user dyno threads or most people who had it, have switched over to flash tunes.

Like I stated, NONE of the performance tables that matter can be changed with a piggyback. AND if you look at that thread, other members agree that tuning for meth is a formula for disaster. Also, you should look into other platforms that have more data on meth use. It is known to be corrosive on cylinder walls and thins oil very quickly.
While I appreciate your concern, at this point and time, I'm comfortable where I am, and what I plan on going forward.
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      01-30-2014, 10:05 PM   #447
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Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
I don't think that's the issue, I think the issue here is that Longboarder speaks from experience, he's not a keyboard jockey. You have dismissed others whose actual experience differ from what you postulate.

Additionally, you're insulting others in this thread, especially with that crack about
but, doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

In this thread http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11957714 didn't you say this

and then sit silent after Drew showed you were pulling sh*t out of thin air?



Point is, don't come on here and disparage folks. We're all trying to learn together. If you have to disagree, be cool about it.

It is common sense that cooler, denser air makes for a happier car. No one discounts that. The drop off, however, is not like falling off a cliff.
point is your rebuttal doesnt even make sense, tell us, what cars blew that didnt have methanol in it? answer that one for me.

Not engaging with drew was not because he "showed"me anything, he and I agree and disagree on many things, that time I didnt feel the need tp push the issue since it would go nowhere fast, something i didnt do when responding to you, probably should have since you fail to accept reality once you made up your mind.

Next what experience? i told him to test a way he has no experience in testing. It will show EXACTLY what im talking about from behind my keyboard, the same one that sits in my cars when dyno'ing them. How is that for keyboard warrior.


You once again claiming things you know nothing about. Plenty of 3rd party tests show a 30 ish hp drop when testing non intercooled kits, this is FACT if you know where to look. Not my fault you dont

Lastly take your own advice, sit back and learn, be cool brosef. Some people didnt "learn" what they know from regurgitating someone else's findings as claim them to be gospel
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      01-30-2014, 10:14 PM   #448
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opps, looks like Im a little late, but seems some other keyboard warriors chimed in as well.

Longboarder - I was present with the other Evolve customer that tried meth, when he had the previous kit and the Evolve, meth was killing power. I was with him at Mpact when another VT2 650 user told him the same thing, meth with no tune isnt gaining power.

Since you already have an A-W IC, do what the guy in colorado was going to do and retro fit a larger pump,lines and reservoir to hold more fluid. SOme reservoirs can even be packed with ice, as well as an old drag racing thing to mount the pump to an external switch so it circulates the ice water while the car is off.
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      01-30-2014, 11:27 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by SickeM3 View Post
point is your rebuttal doesnt even make sense, tell us, what cars blew that didnt have methanol in it? answer that one for me.
Sure.

At my count, cross-referencing this thread www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=935368, and subtracting:

a) Drew's car, as his failure is attributed to methanol failure
b) H4NH b/c of his failure to supply the appropriate octane
b) filinm3 b/c I don't even know where to start

that leaves a total of 4 add'l s/c'ed S65s that failed that were not running meth. Even if we exclude the two "Anon" listings, that still leaves 2 verifiable failures in
a) BrooklynMark http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=849394 and
b) SVH http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=17 that weren't running meth.

As for the rest of your commentary, it's not really worth commenting on, as this back and forth is just mucking up this thread; for my part, I apologize to my fellow M3post members. As I said earlier, I'm pretty comfortable with my plans at this point. You do you, and I'll worry about what's going on in my car, and with my engine, and with its future

Last edited by whats77inaname; 01-30-2014 at 11:38 PM.
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      01-31-2014, 07:32 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Sure.

At my count, cross-referencing this thread www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=935368, and subtracting:

a) Drew's car, as his failure is attributed to methanol failure
b) H4NH b/c of his failure to supply the appropriate octane
b) filinm3 b/c I don't even know where to start

that leaves a total of 4 add'l s/c'ed S65s that failed that were not running meth. Even if we exclude the two "Anon" listings, that still leaves 2 verifiable failures in
a) BrooklynMark http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=849394 and
b) SVH http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpos...5&postcount=17 that weren't running meth.

As for the rest of your commentary, it's not really worth commenting on, as this back and forth is just mucking up this thread; for my part, I apologize to my fellow M3post members. As I said earlier, I'm pretty comfortable with my plans at this point. You do you, and I'll worry about what's going on in my car, and with my engine, and with its future
Your leaving out cars that did let go because of a problem with methanol? ok.. thats logical, and your also leaving at least 3 more cars off your total list.. As I stated before, you dont know what you dont know, and your missing out on a lot. do some more research - broaden your horizon and get back to us
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      01-31-2014, 10:40 AM   #451
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brilliant thread!
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      01-31-2014, 11:17 AM   #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickeM3 View Post
Your leaving out cars that did let go because of a problem with methanol? ok.. thats logical, and your also leaving at least 3 more cars off your total list.. As I stated before, you dont know what you dont know, and your missing out on a lot. do some more research - broaden your horizon and get back to us
Your EXACT comment was
Quote:
Originally Posted by SickeM3 View Post
tell us, what cars blew that didnt have methanol in it? answer that one for me.
I just gave you at least 2-4 cars that met the exact criteria you specified (s/c'ed cars that lost an engine that weren't running meth), then you criticize me for leaving off the three (yes, I know of those as well, Drew mentioned them in the same thread) that did have methanol. Seriously? *lol*

Last edited by whats77inaname; 01-31-2014 at 11:31 AM.
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      01-31-2014, 11:57 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
Your EXACT comment was

I just gave you at least 2-4 cars that met the exact criteria you specified (s/c'ed cars that lost an engine that weren't running meth), then you criticize me for leaving off the three (yes, I know of those as well, Drew mentioned them in the same thread) that did have methanol. Seriously? *lol*
You gave us 2. Saying that a car that had a catastrophic failure due to methanol NOT working, is all we need to know about your thoughts. One was definitely rod bearings, the other was a whole host of things. So, by actual count, I count 6 with methanol, 2 without.. and those 2 happened after the original comment you keep referring to.
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      01-31-2014, 12:14 PM   #454
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Originally Posted by SickeM3 View Post
You gave us 2. Saying that a car that had a catastrophic failure due to methanol NOT working, is all we need to know about your thoughts. One was definitely rod bearings, the other was a whole host of things. So, by actual count, I count 6 with methanol, 2 without.. and those 2 happened after the original comment you keep referring to.
Once again, you're sticking words in my mouth. I never said anything about there being a "catastrophic failure due to methanol not working." I said there are 2 to 4 cars that were supercharged and not running meth that failed. You're attempting to twist my words to mean "since they weren't running meth, they failed". Given there are hundreds of s/c'ed s65s that are methless and running just fine, I fail to see what point you're attempting to make/prove.
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      01-31-2014, 12:22 PM   #455
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Guys… please… if you don't mind.
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      01-31-2014, 12:26 PM   #456
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Guys… please… if you don't mind.
Sorry, Sal.

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      01-31-2014, 02:34 PM   #457
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No problem Sal, My point has been made, by myself, and the other guy trying to argue against it

Keep up the good work, another friend is about to purchase your kit, and if tax return is what I expect, you can add me to that list as well..
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      01-31-2014, 03:56 PM   #458
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SickeM3 View Post
No problem Sal, My point has been made, by myself, and the other guy trying to argue against it

Keep up the good work, another friend is about to purchase your kit, and if tax return is what I expect, you can add me to that list as well..
nice more Evolve Supercharged car in! I am so excited to get my kit. The wait has been killing me
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      02-01-2014, 03:58 AM   #459
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We are doing two more over here in the next two weeks.

Will be nice to see more build threads with our kit.

Some 8 PSi kits will be done too and that is where it's all going to get very interesting given what the 6.7 did!
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      02-01-2014, 04:20 AM   #460
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We are doing two more over here in the next two weeks.

Will be nice to see more build threads with our kit.

Some 8 PSi kits will be done too and that is where it's all going to get very interesting given what the 6.7 did!
i want an s54 kit!!!
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      02-01-2014, 05:49 AM   #461
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It is coming. ....
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      02-01-2014, 07:55 AM   #462
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Can't wait for my evolve kit as well! I'll be joining Lost this spring/summer at the roll racing events! My poor car has been hibernating in a heated garage, waiting out this awful winter.
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