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      06-14-2007, 06:31 AM   #23
southlight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
...It does look like the 8:09 RS4 time was with r-compound tires "mit Sportreifen" (right south?). However the Supercars site also has a 7:58 time for the RS4.

So here they are the RS4 times:
7:58 tires??
8:09 r-comps
8:25 NO r-comps
...
Right, that's the meaning of "mit Sportreifen." As I said the car had Pirelli Zero Corsa. Rob's right about the 8:25, this time is from the former generation RS4.
Some allegedly "well-informed" sources say the new M3 could/will achieve a 8:05! Let's wait and see...

Best regards, south
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      06-14-2007, 08:13 AM   #24
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For those who have been to the Ring know that on the tourist days you can only drive on the Nordschleife. But testers can drive on the Nordschleife and on the GPtrack. so this 8min and 12 secs is that the whole track including the grandprix part.
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      06-14-2007, 08:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yves View Post
For those who have been to the Ring know that on the tourist days you can only drive on the Nordschleife. But testers can drive on the Nordschleife and on the GPtrack. so this 8min and 12 secs is that the whole track including the grandprix part.
We are talking about times for the Nordschliefe, which by definition does not include the GP track. If 8:12 included the GP circuit, the time for the Nordschliefe only would be close to if not better than the overall record.
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      06-14-2007, 09:06 AM   #26
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Agree with Swamp, the time is disapointment. Everyone can continue to put a good spin on it but the time is the time. Guaranteed, BMW used their best driver under the best conditions with multiple laps to get this time. I wonder how much the M3's single piston brakes held it back. Porsche has less horspower than the competition but always has good times in part due to world class brakes. BMW spends so much on R&D to produce their great drivetrains, then throws on average breaks to try and save a buck. I would bet the RS4 brakes will also outperform the new M3's.
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      06-14-2007, 09:35 AM   #27
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Don't Fret

Almost certainlly the 8:12 was done in the winter. They couldn't have done it last fall as the car wasn't ready yet. The 8:12 time was floated around in winter and BMW is using it.

BMW Canada always is usually ahead of BMW USA for website execution.
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      06-14-2007, 10:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerwithholes View Post
lol.....wtf

you do know they don't just drive it once and call it a day rite?
They drive alot of time and take the best one....

why would they choose a bad weather day to test it
it needs to be stock tire....to say it's stock time
driver is a pro.....he/she will drive faster than you for sure...
....seriously get real
One would assume they would do many laps and post the best result. That's obvious. What is also obvious to me, but obviously not obvious too you:

1. You will get different results if the track temp is 8C vs 35C. That's the difference between nice Fall weather and nice summer weather. Just because it's not raining or something doesn't mean the weather effects can be ignored.

2. Who said anything about me driving the car? There is no mention of the driver name. For all you know, some of these time are posted by some editor in a car magazine who thinks he is a pro driver...Anyway, let's just assume that they are all pro drivers. Do you know how many pro drivers there are in the world? Thousands. Are they all equally talented? No. For a 8+ minute track the difference between a world-class driver and an average pro driver can easily be 30 seconds.

Last edited by lucid; 06-14-2007 at 11:10 AM.
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      06-14-2007, 10:50 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
1. You will get different results if the track temp is 8C vs 35C. That's the difference between nice Fall weather and nice summer weather. Just because it's not raining or something doesn't mean the weather effects can be ignored.
Yes, but will warmer tempts necessarily lead to better time? Tires heat up and stay hot on the track. Yes, a warmer surface presumably has more grip. But warmer air temps result in less engine power (probably not significantly less, though for this motor), greater tire wear and more chance of brake fade/overheating as well.

I think the RS4 time is from a spring test.
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      06-14-2007, 11:13 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Yes, but will warmer tempts necessarily lead to better time? Tires heat up and stay hot on the track. Yes, a warmer surface presumably has more grip. But warmer air temps result in less engine power (probably not significantly less, though for this motor), greater tire wear and more chance of brake fade/overheating as well.

I think the RS4 time is from a spring test.
You are absolutely right: it is a pretty complicated equation, which is exactly my point. It is difficult to know how the weather (and other variables) will affect different cars. So, I really do not see the point of comparing these numbers and claiming a 10-15 second difference is significant in one way or another.
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      06-14-2007, 11:24 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Yes, but will warmer tempts necessarily lead to better time? Tires heat up and stay hot on the track. Yes, a warmer surface presumably has more grip. But warmer air temps result in less engine power (probably not significantly less, though for this motor), greater tire wear and more chance of brake fade/overheating as well.

I think the RS4 time is from a spring test.

The effect of temperature is minimal to these modern M cars. They affect turbos big time.
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      06-14-2007, 11:44 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerwithholes View Post
If BMW want to post an official time.....they would have an analyst team reviewing what's the best condition to produce that time.....
+1
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      06-14-2007, 12:39 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerwithholes View Post
so many obvious.....that obviously point out that you donno what you talking about.

1. tires needs to be hot...If you know they tried it many times, they would have tried in different days also......lol

2. yah BMW want to get the official time from some slowass driver that's not that talented and call himself a pro...

If BMW want to post an official time.....they would have an analyst team reviewing what's the best condition to produce that time.....

Now obviously I thought of that, since it's obvious to me. But it's not so obvious to you and obviously you don't understand.....
there are many many numbers on that list. the thread compares the "so called" official BMW number with those numbers. it is not clear where the other numbers are coming from (many of them have car mags associated with them). for instance, some of the slower numbers could actually be drastically reduced if they were done by a different driver under different conditions. so, the M3 might actually be much slower than the other cars. for that matter, there are other variables that are not controlled for that could work against the M3. and i repeat, therefore, the comparisons that result in reading too much into a 10-15 second gap are pointless. i am sorry that your logic keeps on failing you, but i get the sense that you are stuck with it...
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      06-14-2007, 12:40 PM   #34
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Does anyone know if the 8:12 time posted by BMW was made on the full lap (20832 meters) or on the same 20600 meters that SportAuto records its laps on (excluding the T13 section)? I would imagine BMW also records on the 20600 meters but the website mentions the 20832 meters below the picture of the M3 in the Performance section. If BMW have used the full lap for its time the M3 would be faster than the RS4 and with standard tires.
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      06-14-2007, 12:45 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
there are many many numbers on that list. the thread compares the "so called" official BMW number with those numbers. it is not clear where the other numbers are coming from (many of them have car mags associated with them). for instance, some of the slower numbers could actually be drastically reduced if they were done by a different driver under different conditions. so, the M3 might actually be much slower than the other cars. for that matter, there are other variables that are not controlled for that could work against the M3. and i repeat, therefore, the comparisons that result in reading too much into a 10-15 second gap are pointless. i am sorry that your logic keeps on failing you, but i get the sense that you are stuck with it...
Whatever the real times are with a good driver on a day with traction....BMW is using 8:12, probably to appease M6 owners. We have fragile egos.
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      06-14-2007, 01:16 PM   #36
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what ev
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      06-14-2007, 11:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wally330 View Post
Does anyone know if the 8:12 time posted by BMW was made on the full lap (20832 meters) or on the same 20600 meters that SportAuto records its laps on (excluding the T13 section)? I would imagine BMW also records on the 20600 meters but the website mentions the 20832 meters below the picture of the M3 in the Performance section. If BMW have used the full lap for its time the M3 would be faster than the RS4 and with standard tires.
Wally, can you explain what section you're talking about being excluded? I though laps made on tourist days (open track) were timed from the Bridge to the Overhead sign at the beginning of the finish straightaway.
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      06-15-2007, 01:12 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T Bone View Post

I don't know if the RS4's 8:09 was done on R compounds. .
RS4 was tested with semi R compounds.

One thing, do not compare sportauto times with factory times. Two different drivers isnt much of a comparison.
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      06-15-2007, 01:18 AM   #39
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The Full lap of the Nordschleife is 20832 meters. SportAuto measures on 20600 meters and the tourist lap is measured BTG (Bridge to Gantry) and is some 19600 meters. The tourist lap is shorter as the full main straight cannot be driven at speed due to the entrance/exit. On tourist days you don't drive the full course. SportAuto do not drive on tourist days but have access to the course at days when tourists are not allowed on the course. In general a full lap should be some seconds faster than the SportAuto lap and if I'm not mistaken the BTG would be roughly 30 seconds faster.
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      06-15-2007, 02:46 AM   #40
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Intresting its only BMW Canada mention a laptime. Nor BMW Germany or BMW International is mentioned a laptime.

I dont take this laptime seriosly unless I see it on BMW Germany and BMW International webpage. BMW Canada is using the rumoured laptime which mean its not an official time from BMW. BMW Canada is changing the webpage, thats a mistake. Now they fooling many people around the net.

http://www.bmw.de/de/de/index_highend.html
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      06-15-2007, 05:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
Intresting its only BMW Canada mention a laptime. Nor BMW Germany or BMW International is mentioned a laptime.

I dont take this laptime seriosly unless I see it on BMW Germany and BMW International webpage. BMW Canada is using the rumoured laptime which mean its not an official time from BMW. BMW Canada is changing the webpage, thats a mistake. Now they fooling many people around the net.

http://www.bmw.de/de/de/index_highend.html
How do you mean they are changing the website? the 8.12 is still on there.

Maybe bmw germany are going kick some serious ass over at canada and rightly so if they've f*cked up.

i can understand the reason behind 8.12 from BMW's point of view if the M6 time is official, but to be honest, M6 owners shouldn't really expect the M3 to be a slower car, its entirely different. The M6 is GT type of car, and the M3 is a lot more agile and lighter.

My pitch is 8.05 with stocks.
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      06-15-2007, 10:35 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just_me View Post
Intresting its only BMW Canada mention a laptime. Nor BMW Germany or BMW International is mentioned a laptime.

I dont take this laptime seriosly unless I see it on BMW Germany and BMW International webpage. BMW Canada is using the rumoured laptime which mean its not an official time from BMW. BMW Canada is changing the webpage, thats a mistake. Now they fooling many people around the net.

http://www.bmw.de/de/de/index_highend.html

Can't have your cake and eat it too..... BMW Canada does an excellent job on their website with the best available info.... Other than us gearheads who scrunitinize 5-6 seconds on a track somewhere where most people don't care about.....

I care but I still believe the M3 will be sub 8 minutes.
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      06-15-2007, 10:55 AM   #43
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Guys, I have a feeling that the 8:12 lap time is not confirmed. It may be taken down . . .
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      06-15-2007, 10:56 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILC32 View Post
Guys, I have a feeling that the 8:12 lap time is not confirmed. It may be taken down . . .
It will stay up because no one really cares and there is no other time.
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