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      10-11-2009, 07:54 PM   #1
MrHarris
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Inner tire wear

Hey guys, I noticed my tire wear is a bit uneven.

The inner side of the tire (closer to the center of the car) is at the wear bars but the outter is still about 2/32" from the wear bars. Would this be considered normal?
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      10-11-2009, 07:58 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
Hey guys, I noticed my tire wear is a bit uneven.

The inner side of the tire (closer to the center of the car) is at the wear bars but the outter is still about 2/32" from the wear bars. Would this be considered normal?
Front or rear?My street setup had worn very equal F&R.I have 31ooo kms on them and the rear PS2's are just at the wear bars.
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      10-11-2009, 08:20 PM   #3
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my tires arent completely worn yet but the inner part of my tire is slightly more worn then the outer part... this ist he same for all 4 (front and rear). difference in wear is bout 1mm... i am at 22 000 kms.
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      10-11-2009, 08:26 PM   #4
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Mines on the inner part. I only checked the rear tires.
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      10-11-2009, 08:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
Hey guys, I noticed my tire wear is a bit uneven.

The inner side of the tire (closer to the center of the car) is at the wear bars but the outter is still about 2/32" from the wear bars. Would this be considered normal?
Yes, this is somewhat normal on higher performance cars.

But...excessive inner tire wear is the result of aggressive negative camber/toe adjustments on the rear suspension. (vs. the factory suspension settings)
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      10-11-2009, 09:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post
Yes, this is somewhat normal on higher performance cars.

But...excessive inner tire wear is the result of aggressive negative camber/toe adjustments on the rear suspension. (vs. the factory suspension settings)
What's excessive? I checked my fronts, they seem to have even tire wear.
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      10-12-2009, 12:07 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
What's excessive? I checked my fronts, they seem to have even tire wear.
High performance cars are notorious for having uneven rear tire wear. (especially when you have a lowered suspension)

Rear wheel drive performance oriented cars have more negative camber dialed in on the rear suspension to improve handling. (compared to your average family car) If you lower the car from the factory ride height, you unwittingly increase the negative camber of the rear tires. If your suspension/alignment shop gets the setup wrong, you'll end up with too much negative camber. This can accelerate your rear tire wear. (cutting the usable lifespan of the tires in half in severe cases)

Negative camber changes the angle of the tire from it's neutral vertical position. (0 degrees) It causes the angle of the top of the wheel/tire to tilt IN toward the struts/shocks.

As your suspension compresses when you are driving, the tires will "tuck" in even more at the top. (moving towards the struts/shocks)

Positive camber for example would cause the top of the wheel/tire to tilt OUT toward the edges of the outer fender lip. (moving away from the struts/shocks)

The actual adjustments necessary to make dramatic changes to your tire wear, are much smaller than many people think. Your suspension setup is directly related to the tire wear you are experiencing now.

For example:

A change from -1.0 degrees to -1.5 degrees of negative camber, is NOT that significant in regards to tire wear.

But, a change from -1.5 degrees to -2.0 degrees IS significant in regards to tire wear.

And if your TOE setting is off by 1/8", your tire wear will increase. It doesn't sound like such a small adjustment would have such a dramatic effect...but it does.

For minimum tire wear (and power hp/trq loss), the wheels on a given axle should point directly ahead when the car is running in a straight line. (parallel to the chassis) Excessive toe-in (tires pointed IN), or toe-out (tires pointed OUT) will cause the tires to scrub. Since the wheels are always slightly turned relative to the direction of travel, this scrubbing will wear the rubber tread out faster than it normally would. (with the ideal suspension settings)

Too much toe-in will cause accelerated wear at the outboard edges of the tires, while too much toe-out causes wear at the inboard edges.

Suspension settings are crucial for achieving good tire wear.

Unfortunately, many cars do not have the proper alignment settings on their cars to achieve this goal.
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      10-12-2009, 12:55 AM   #8
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I got an alignment like 5 months ago, and I put on springs like 5 1/2 months ago. When am I due for another alignment?

I also added 5mm front spacers and I will be changing my tire sizes from 255/35, 285/30 to 245/35, 295/30 in a couple months or less.
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      10-12-2009, 01:12 AM   #9
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completely normal. thats why i asked darrin at west end for the most conservative/tire saving specs. mines a daily driver and i dont want to go through tires that quickly. i figured i could always have him realign when im ready to track her. anyway, even with a conservative alignment the car handles very well. darrin is the man, been going to him for years.
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      10-12-2009, 03:32 AM   #10
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Wassup bro! Getting an alignment was one of the first things on my todo list as soon as i got my springs put in. If you're tire is almost gone and ur'e gonna get on u're new setups on soon, i would just wait it out. My buddy's m5 had a very severe case of this problem. He got lowered, got the alignment right away, which is something i do not recommend, because the springs needs to settle. he failed to do a second alignemtn, and he ate through those tires like i go thru a good burger. i was amazed his tire didn't rip apart on the road.
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      10-12-2009, 03:44 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XunXunDCT View Post
Wassup bro! Getting an alignment was one of the first things on my todo list as soon as i got my springs put in. If you're tire is almost gone and ur'e gonna get on u're new setups on soon, i would just wait it out. My buddy's m5 had a very severe case of this problem. He got lowered, got the alignment right away, which is something i do not recommend, because the springs needs to settle. he failed to do a second alignemtn, and he ate through those tires like i go thru a good burger. i was amazed his tire didn't rip apart on the road.
I see. I'll go back to West End probably. Next time we meet up take a look and see if you think it looks uneven.
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      10-12-2009, 05:15 AM   #12
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you're not driving it hard enough.
seriously, drive it harder and it'll even out.
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      10-12-2009, 05:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemans_Blue_M View Post

For minimum tire wear (and power hp/trq loss), the wheels on a given axle should point directly ahead when the car is running in a straight line. (parallel to the chassis) Excessive toe-in (tires pointed IN), or toe-out (tires pointed OUT) will cause the tires to scrub.
Just for clarity its worth noting that RWD cars have a static toe in setting to offset the fact that under acceleration the rear wheels have a tendency to toe out.
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      10-12-2009, 05:53 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FruitCake View Post
you're not driving it hard enough.
seriously, drive it harder and it'll even out.
That is true I've only been gunning it on the straights, not really taking corners hard. Ill give that a try
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      10-12-2009, 08:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
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That is true I've only been gunning it on the straights, not really taking corners hard. Ill give that a try
Yep, drive it harder in the corners and it'll even out. Also, the rear is wearing unevenly and the front is not, is because the front does not have much weight on it because when you accelerate, weight shifts to the back + rwd = excessive rear wear and not cornering = inner wear.
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      10-12-2009, 05:46 PM   #16
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JJ, how long did those tires last?

I've gone through so many tires throughout the years of lowering and modding cars. I just accept the fact that it is going to happen. When I had the E46 M3, I went through the rears on avg of 8-12 months. I would expect your rears will last less than a year w/o a rotation.

You can ask Westend not to go so aggressive on the camber. You will sacrifice the cornering/handling qualities of the car a bit, but I doubt it would be noticeable.
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      10-12-2009, 08:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHarris View Post
I got an alignment like 5 months ago, and I put on springs like 5 1/2 months ago. When am I due for another alignment?

I also added 5mm front spacers and I will be changing my tire sizes from 255/35, 285/30 to 245/35, 295/30 in a couple months or less.
you should ALWAYS do an alignment when you change anything with the suspension.
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      10-12-2009, 08:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
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I see. I'll go back to West End probably. Next time we meet up take a look and see if you think it looks uneven.
Before you get the car realigned, make sure to tell them you want the printout from the machine for the before and after settings. You can then evaluate that information in conjunction with your driving style/behaviour to decide what is best for you. If you are not cornering aggresively or driving on the track, then the stock alignment specs should work well. Take the stock specs to the shop and ask them to use them if that is the case. Some shops can go off and do their own thing by giving people very aggressive settings as if everyone is a track rat. Or it could simply be misaligned by someone who doesn't know much about the car. This car does not seem to need the aggresive camber settings older M3s liked for instance.

Stock specs are here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192175
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      10-12-2009, 09:26 PM   #19
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Darren@West End does everything by hand tho, so his print out is a write out on a blank piece of paper.

but he knows his stuff and does everything by feel.
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      10-12-2009, 09:52 PM   #20
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Maybe that's why the OP has uneven wear on his tires then...
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      10-13-2009, 02:01 AM   #21
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Maybe that's why the OP has uneven wear on his tires then...
Darren at WestEnd is very reputable, and knows his stuff. He does do things the old school way though.

I did an alignment and corner balance with him, and so far so good. He does ask about the type driving is done and wanted on the car.

Maybe the Op did something to cause the car to be out of alignment?
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      10-13-2009, 02:42 AM   #22
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Maybe that's why the OP has uneven wear on his tires then...
he might not use machines but he takes his time doing the alignment.
he knows his stuff and he has a long line of fans to back it up.
ask anyone in SoCal and they will probably tell you the best of the best is Darren.
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