BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
BPM Sport
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-28-2012, 03:13 PM   #1
WolfeS2K
Second Lieutenant
WolfeS2K's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
267
Posts

 
Drives: E92 Interlagos Blue M3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA

iTrader: (10)

Stock VS Challenge Street X-pipe -Dyno Graph

I wanted to post this up. The one run was the best of three when the car was completely stock and the next was the best of three runs after install of the Challenge Street X-pipe. No other mods in between. Still have stock muffler

I want everyone to know that this x-pipe does work and you will not get any check engine light at all. The exhaust note is more aggressive too!
__________________

^Welcome to the China Club^ says the Bartender

Last edited by WolfeS2K; 03-28-2012 at 04:07 PM.
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 03:29 PM   #2
GTM_Challenge
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
GTM_Challenge's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,831
Posts


 
Drives: E92 M3,X5M,F30 335
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (7)

Send a message via AIM to GTM_Challenge
Thanks for taking the time to Dyno our X pipe and sharing. Glad you are happy with the results too
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 03:30 PM   #3
tom @ eas
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
tom @ eas's Avatar
United_States
325
Rep
10,620
Posts


 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Anaheim, CA

iTrader: (13)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfeS2K View Post
I wanted to post this up. The one run was the best of three when the car was completely stock and the next was the best of three runs after install of the Challenge Street X-pipe. No other mods in between. Still have stock muffler

I want everyone to know that this x-pipe does work and you will not get any check engine light at all. The exhaust note is more aggressive too!
Congrats on the power bump! No CEL on the Street versions.
__________________

Last edited by tom @ eas; 03-28-2012 at 03:41 PM.
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 06:41 PM   #4
Serpico
Captain
9
Rep
626
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MD-NY

iTrader: (1)

Wow! That's crazy good success! I hadn't planned on doing an x pipe as I didn't think there are any gains. I may have to re-evaluate my build process.
Thanks for this!
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 06:50 PM   #5
LarThaL
Colonel
LarThaL's Avatar
64
Rep
2,631
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 M3
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: West Springfield, MA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTM_Challenge View Post
Thanks for taking the time to Dyno our X pipe and sharing. Glad you are happy with the results too
Do you have any sound clips of the street x-pipe with an otherwise stock exhaust?
__________________
Precision tool: 2011 BMW ///M3
Sledgehammer: 2014 Audi S6

Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 07:34 PM   #6
kitw
Colonel
kitw's Avatar
61
Rep
2,628
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 MW M3/2014 Boxster S
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (14)

dyno charts with no other data make me sad panda.
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 07:43 PM   #7
cntgetm3
Private First Class
cntgetm3's Avatar
2
Rep
160
Posts

 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Jville, NC

iTrader: (0)

+1 on the x-pipe with stock exhaust sound clip
__________________
Lux v3, IND, V1 Hardwire, ZHP lighted shift knob, Megan Racing Axel Back, Custom race x-pipe, MS filter, Arkym Diffuser, OEM Carbon Lip Spoiler, and still more to come.
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 08:26 PM   #8
Modena NYC
Private First Class
1
Rep
176
Posts

 
Drives: E90
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NYC

iTrader: (0)

very interested in this
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 10:21 PM   #9
geneatals
Ninja
geneatals's Avatar
Philippines
44
Rep
3,206
Posts

 
Drives: 2011.5 E90 M3
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: So Cal (SFV)

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
dyno charts with no other data make me sad panda.
..


street version is a nice choice, but too bad it requires cutting to install...
__________________
2011.5 E90 M3 AW l Black Novillo Leather | Carbon Fiber Leather Trim | ZCP | ZP2 | M-DCT | Navigation | Moonroof | 6FL l Pics/Mods
Retired: 2008 535i l AW l Black Dakota Leather l Bamboo Anthracite l ZPP l ZSP l 6FL
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 10:23 PM   #10
MJM
BMW CCA Boston Chapter - Member
MJM's Avatar
United_States
7
Rep
513
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3, ZCP
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Massachusetts

iTrader: (0)

Thanks this validates my decision a while ago to install the Challenge "Street" X-Pipe with the Akrapovic Slip-on!! Also, passed State of MA Vehicle Emission Inspection, no problem.
Appreciate 0
      03-28-2012, 11:25 PM   #11
Zaw
Private First Class
1
Rep
102
Posts

 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 DCT Competition
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Studio City, CA

iTrader: (0)

14 more whp while retaining the primary cat? that seems high. Most people are making that kind of gains with primary cat delete. Like in the Race version.
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 01:26 AM   #12
YaganaWcott
New Member
0
Rep
7
Posts

 
Drives: bmw
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: yop

iTrader: (0)

I may have to re-evaluate my build process.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 02:54 AM   #13
Sal@Evolve
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
24
Rep
1,063
Posts


 
Drives: Slow
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Luton, Bedfordshire

iTrader: (0)

You simply cannot gain that sort of power by removing the secondary CATs.
It just does not happen.

The primary CATs represent 7psi back pressure.

You can do what ever you want to the rest of the exhaust.
You cannot argue with the laws of physics.

The x pipe itself is the same diameter as the stock system and the resonators on the stock exhaust are completely straight through.

What this test is suggesting is a power gain of 15 whp from removing the secondary cats.

This is purely impossible.

Also, posting dyno graphs without any correction factor is a complete waste of time.

Dyno testing and knowledge has moved on alot and soon not only will correction factors have to be posted but also datalogs of the engine sensor readings.

I can clearly see one major anomaly with the graph.
Road speed on the first test is higher than the second which means there is a difference om how hard the car was strapped down.
It is clear the car is strapped down harder before the x pipe was fitted and this is what is causing a skewing of the results rather than an actual impossible power gain.

Sorry to come on here like this but I cannot stand by and watch people believe that removing the secondary cats gives 15hp.

The OP nor challenge are being pointed at here but the dyno operator.
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 03:41 AM   #14
HK8888
Captain
HK8888's Avatar
United_States
11
Rep
938
Posts

 
Drives: '08 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Boston, MA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2008 M3 Coupe  [5.00]
Not bad, delicious.
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 10:15 AM   #15
Nautik
Captain
12
Rep
632
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 AW M3 DCT
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NoVA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
You simply cannot gain that sort of power by removing the secondary CATs.
It just does not happen.

The primary CATs represent 7psi back pressure.

You can do what ever you want to the rest of the exhaust.
You cannot argue with the laws of physics.

The x pipe itself is the same diameter as the stock system and the resonators on the stock exhaust are completely straight through.

What this test is suggesting is a power gain of 15 whp from removing the secondary cats.

This is purely impossible.

Also, posting dyno graphs without any correction factor is a complete waste of time.

Dyno testing and knowledge has moved on alot and soon not only will correction factors have to be posted but also datalogs of the engine sensor readings.

I can clearly see one major anomaly with the graph.
Road speed on the first test is higher than the second which means there is a difference om how hard the car was strapped down.
It is clear the car is strapped down harder before the x pipe was fitted and this is what is causing a skewing of the results rather than an actual impossible power gain.

Sorry to come on here like this but I cannot stand by and watch people believe that removing the secondary cats gives 15hp.

The OP nor challenge are being pointed at here but the dyno operator.
+1 Challenge offers a great product but the +15hp this dyno graph is showing can be very misleading to some when you are keeping the primary cat intact.
__________________
2009 e92 M3 - AW DCT - Apex Arc8s - Corsa
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 10:34 AM   #16
WolfeS2K
Second Lieutenant
WolfeS2K's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
267
Posts

 
Drives: E92 Interlagos Blue M3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cntgetm3 View Post
+1 on the x-pipe with stock exhaust sound clip
I will get a video made by this weekend of the exhaust for everyone.
__________________

^Welcome to the China Club^ says the Bartender
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 11:09 AM   #17
GTM_Challenge
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor
GTM_Challenge's Avatar
United_States
114
Rep
2,831
Posts


 
Drives: E92 M3,X5M,F30 335
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (7)

Send a message via AIM to GTM_Challenge
Sal,

The peak power gains looks a little higher than normal, so its possible there is a difference in how the car was strapped. I dont rule anything out. Our street x pipe removes the secondary cats as well has our own x section design, so its not just a cat delete only. Not sure how well you know our parts or not.



The gains for the majority of the powerband seem to be similar to another dyno done by a customer with our street x pipe at Active Autowerkes dyno. Here is the members original post link and the dyno below:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=435311

Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 12:16 PM   #18
WolfeS2K
Second Lieutenant
WolfeS2K's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
267
Posts

 
Drives: E92 Interlagos Blue M3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
dyno charts with no other data make me sad panda.
Exhaust master....don't be a sad panda....what would you like to see?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
You simply cannot gain that sort of power by removing the secondary CATs.
It just does not happen.

The primary CATs represent 7psi back pressure.

You can do what ever you want to the rest of the exhaust.
You cannot argue with the laws of physics.

The x pipe itself is the same diameter as the stock system and the resonators on the stock exhaust are completely straight through.

What this test is suggesting is a power gain of 15 whp from removing the secondary cats.

This is purely impossible.

Also, posting dyno graphs without any correction factor is a complete waste of time.

Dyno testing and knowledge has moved on alot and soon not only will correction factors have to be posted but also datalogs of the engine sensor readings.

I can clearly see one major anomaly with the graph.
Road speed on the first test is higher than the second which means there is a difference om how hard the car was strapped down.
It is clear the car is strapped down harder before the x pipe was fitted and this is what is causing a skewing of the results rather than an actual impossible power gain.

Sorry to come on here like this but I cannot stand by and watch people believe that removing the secondary cats gives 15hp.

The OP nor challenge are being pointed at here but the dyno operator.
Hey Sal,

How would you like me to set up the machine? We use the same Dyno so it wont be a problem to set it up the same way. I didn't use shootout mode since I never use that since it gives you a crank hp number instead of what the car is making at the wheels. I can run it in shootout mode but i wont have a stock to compare it since it wasn't run it shootout previously. Inertia was at the default of 100 and inlet air temp was used on the baseline as well as with the runs after the install. I know you dyno these cars alot more than I do mine so I'm certainly not questioning your knowledge. This is just what my independent tests show. I would be happy to test your x-pipe if you like since I am interested in going to catless setup.
__________________

^Welcome to the China Club^ says the Bartender
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 02:59 PM   #19
IMG
M.POWER
IMG's Avatar
104
Rep
7,065
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

That's some awesome gain man,Congrats !
I have the Challenge Xpipe on my car and i loved it since day one. From power gain to Weld and fitting !

OP,DCT or 6MT ?
Octane Rating ?
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 04:50 PM   #20
WolfeS2K
Second Lieutenant
WolfeS2K's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
267
Posts

 
Drives: E92 Interlagos Blue M3
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA

iTrader: (10)

Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
That's some awesome gain man,Congrats !
I have the Challenge Xpipe on my car and i loved it since day one. From power gain to Weld and fitting !

OP,DCT or 6MT ?
Octane Rating ?

2008 DCT
Only use Shell 93oct and its pretty good gas from what I have been told.
__________________

^Welcome to the China Club^ says the Bartender
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 08:39 PM   #21
IMG
M.POWER
IMG's Avatar
104
Rep
7,065
Posts

 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfeS2K View Post
2008 DCT
Only use Shell 93oct and its pretty good gas from what I have been told.

Thank you Sir and yes,Shell is great !
Enjoy the added power
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
Appreciate 0
      03-29-2012, 10:27 PM   #22
Serpico
Captain
9
Rep
626
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: MD-NY

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
You simply cannot gain that sort of power by removing the secondary CATs.
It just does not happen.

The primary CATs represent 7psi back pressure.

You can do what ever you want to the rest of the exhaust.
You cannot argue with the laws of physics.

The x pipe itself is the same diameter as the stock system and the resonators on the stock exhaust are completely straight through.

What this test is suggesting is a power gain of 15 whp from removing the secondary cats.

This is purely impossible.

Also, posting dyno graphs without any correction factor is a complete waste of time.

Dyno testing and knowledge has moved on alot and soon not only will correction factors have to be posted but also datalogs of the engine sensor readings.

I can clearly see one major anomaly with the graph.
Road speed on the first test is higher than the second which means there is a difference om how hard the car was strapped down.
It is clear the car is strapped down harder before the x pipe was fitted and this is what is causing a skewing of the results rather than an actual impossible power gain.

Sorry to come on here like this but I cannot stand by and watch people believe that removing the secondary cats gives 15hp.

The OP nor challenge are being pointed at here but the dyno operator.
I love how its always straight facts with relevent data from Sal
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:34 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST