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      03-31-2012, 03:51 PM   #89
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It's clear Evolve is run by true professionals with proper business ethics. Their past and present performance is beyond reproach.
The fact that they not only give you the straight facts, they show you why. Their credibility is unquestioned, never have they been accused of falsifying any data. Their commitment to informing the customer on the how and why is unrivaled.

Bms and their dp fix currently fits my needs, but as I endevour on a path for more performance, I'll be going with Evolve to fit fulfill those needs
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      03-31-2012, 04:34 PM   #90
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im in the market for a tune myself. Based on OP's original topic, i too want to make an informed decision on which software tune to invest my money in...

i created a basic comparison table of the 3 SF tunes, if we can fill this out, this will assist OP, myself and others interested in purchasing a software tune in the future...
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File Type: pdf tune comparison.pdf (169.2 KB, 150 views)
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      03-31-2012, 05:16 PM   #91
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would love to see a tuner shootout at this upcoming mfest...let's be done with the internet banter and let all these companies just put up or shut up....
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      03-31-2012, 05:24 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
would love to see a tuner shootout at this upcoming mfest...let's be done with the internet banter and let all these companies just put up or shut up....
That would be awesome!
But, it only shows power, not the overall effects of each tune.
In theory, all the tunes should arrive at the same whp ad only so much one can tune for n/a... If they all even abide by conservative, long term reliable tuning

The application of the power is as important as peak.

Why hasn't this been suggested before though?
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      03-31-2012, 05:37 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
would love to see a tuner shootout at this upcoming mfest...let's be done with the internet banter and let all these companies just put up or shut up....
+100!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggy_M View Post
That would be awesome!
But, it only shows power, not the overall effects of each tune.
In theory, all the tunes should arrive at the same whp ad only so much one can tune for n/a... If they all even abide by conservative, long term reliable tuning

The application of the power is as important as peak.

Why hasn't this been suggested before though?
so if all results stay equal or close enough, then the determining difference will be price and maybe overall customer service experience.
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      03-31-2012, 05:49 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
would love to see a tuner shootout at this upcoming mfest...let's be done with the internet banter and let all these companies just put up or shut up....
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      03-31-2012, 06:09 PM   #95
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      03-31-2012, 06:49 PM   #96
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Like I said before. IF any tuner can guarantee BMW will not see their tune on DME if one flashes back to stock and is confident in their long term reliability performance. They would sell tunes like crazy.
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      03-31-2012, 07:05 PM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul
Like I said before. IF any tuner can guarantee BMW will not see their tune on DME if one flashes back to stock and is confident in their long term reliability performance. They would sell tunes like crazy.
They already sell tunes like crazy. Most people aren't worried about such things. Just a select few.
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      03-31-2012, 07:54 PM   #98
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Mike, Roman, Sal, others?? Are you guys down for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
would love to see a tuner shootout at this upcoming mfest...let's be done with the internet banter and let all these companies just put up or shut up....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krozi View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
DINAN anyone ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul View Post
Like I said before. IF any tuner can guarantee BMW will not see their tune on DME if one flashes back to stock and is confident in their long term reliability performance. They would sell tunes like crazy.
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      03-31-2012, 08:00 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkboyz68 View Post
+100!



so if all results stay equal or close enough, then the determining difference will be price and maybe overall customer service experience.
It comes down to a few things. Reliability, do any get random codes, throttle mapping, customer service. Price should never be an issue or a factor, you just have to figure out if they are charging due to r&d, or having to charge more because they are just a middleman, or just plain price gouging.

Personally, I like knowing my $ goes to the company that did the r&d, that knows what they are doing, can answer my calls/emails, and can tell me what, is going on, as they did the legwork. Very few companies meet all of that criteria, and its easy to see who they are
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      03-31-2012, 08:05 PM   #100
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Tuner shoot-out will never happen
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      03-31-2012, 08:14 PM   #101
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Quote:
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Tuner shoot-out will never happen
Agreed.
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      03-31-2012, 08:34 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine335i View Post
Tuner shoot-out will never happen
x10..
and there's no need. Any guy can set a car on kill to make good numbers for a day, and what does it prove?. Each tuner represents their own name. Free market enterprise. To the people who are worried about BMW detecting one, you shouldnt be doing it to begin with if you're worried.
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      03-31-2012, 08:38 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talontid
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine335i View Post
Tuner shoot-out will never happen
x10..
and there's no need. Any guy can set a car on kill to make good numbers for a day, and what does it prove?. Each tuner represents their own name. Free market enterprise. To the people who are worried about BMW detecting one, you shouldnt be doing it to begin with if you're worried.
Exactly!!!
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      03-31-2012, 09:23 PM   #104
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why dont we let Mike, Sal, and Roman respond if this is possible...

Quote:
Originally Posted by talontid View Post
x10..
and there's no need. Any guy can set a car on kill to make good numbers for a day, and what does it prove?. Each tuner represents their own name. Free market enterprise. To the people who are worried about BMW detecting one, you shouldnt be doing it to begin with if you're worried.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpine335i View Post
Exactly!!!
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      03-31-2012, 09:38 PM   #105
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I have been following this thread and at first I wasn't going to respond, but there are some accusations that I think are extremely false.

To call Sal@Evolve just "a very good salesman" is probably one the most unethical and unprofessional things I've seen on this board in awhile. Simply because it is one vendor publicly and personally insulting another when it's known by many to clearly be false.

I just want to share once again my personal experience with Sal as a true tuner and great person to work with.

A little over a year ago before Evolve Automotive strongly entered the E46 and E90 US Market, I chose them to tune my E46 M3. To prove that Sal is a REAL TUNER, he spent several hours with me remotely tuning my car. Throughout this time, he would analyze the data I sent him, making changes to maps accordingly, and send them my way to flash my car. On top of that, he would explain to me in great detail on the certain changes he makes to different areas of the DME and why does it. Instead of comparing himself to other competitors on the market, he would prove and show me why he chooses his own method of tuning apart from the others. Back then, it was often thought that only around 10whp could be extracted from the E46 M3 through a tune. Well Evolve Automotive proved otherwise and helped me gain 17whp on a heat-soaked motor on the dyno with no adaptations on the road. The Evolve E46 M3 tune sold abundantly and speaks for itself. Many people even switched to their tune and made power on top of their previous tune.

I am one of many clients who have the same exact experience. There are COUNTLESS E46 M3's who have been remotely tuned by Sal and Evolve with such a vast array of modifications. Some other otherwise stock, many have Alpha-N tunes for their CSL or CF Airboxes, some are full blown race cars. Sal and Evolve have been doing this same method for the E39 M5 crowd for years. Other's have mentioned Evolve's reputation on M5Board trying to use it against them, well I believe it's the contrary that is true. Anyone can hop onto M5Board and see the amazing praise and acknowledgement that Evolve as a company and entity deserve.

For another company to out right call Sal a salesman is rude and truly embarrassing on their behalf because we all know the endless posts that he makes to try show us, as a community, the R&D side of things. Me having a great interest in how things work and why certain things are done, greatly appreciates the effort that Sal and Evolve have gone through to educate this message forum and BMW community. It's rather rare these days for automotive tuners to share things from a design perspective. As a consumer, I'm not the type to just throw thousands of dollars at a company without any proof of the work they do.

In regards to the statement of Evolve trying to hide that they have their exhausts manufactured by a 3rd party. Well Evolve has said many times that they have their exhausts fabricated by Supersprint. I don't think Sal or anyone at Evolve knows this, but I personally contacted Alessandro at Supersprint Italy to ask some questions. I told him the stuff I've gotten done by Evolve. Alessandro only had great things to say about their workings with Evolve.

It is actually a great advantage that Evolve has a good relationship and partnership with companies like Supersprint. I'm sure many can agree, but I'd rather have a company like Supersprint with their great build quality fabricate the products that Evolve designs than some other factory that doesn't hold the same reputation or quality.

I could go on and on about how great it's been to work with Evolve Automotive, just as much as others have great things to say about ESS, AA, OE, Gintani, etc. But what I believe that sets Evolve Automotive apart from others is that they are simply here to share information, fact, and truth. I don't see them bashing or ridiculing other vendors or sponsors the way others do in a negative manner. Others have been trying to bash and talk bad about the products they have and continue to develop. Evolve Automotive along with anyone else has the right to stand up and fight for their name.

To the OP, I'm sure you didn't expect for any of this "drama" to pop up on your thread. If you are interested in hearing my personal experience with Evolve and their tune for my E90 M3, please check out this link. You will not be disappointed and I think you'll find working with Evolve Automotive to be rather enjoyable.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=659146

Best of luck with your decision on your tune.

To everyone else, hopefully we can stop pointing finger and insulting other tuners or making false claims. The best part of this automotive culture is that we have a common ground that we share. Everyone will always have their differences and opinions.
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      03-31-2012, 10:04 PM   #106
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i agree sal at evolve is very helpful guy to have in your corner. i will use their products again for sure.
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      03-31-2012, 10:07 PM   #107
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I'm ready to go with an ESS tune as soon as Roman post an "end of E9x M3 ESS tune sale" thread
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      04-01-2012, 05:14 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geneatals View Post
would love to see a tuner shootout at this upcoming mfest...let's be done with the internet banter and let all these companies just put up or shut up....
I doubt it will happen - Been through the same drama a couple years ago. Didn't happen then either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul View Post
Like I said before. IF any tuner can guarantee BMW will not see their tune on DME if one flashes back to stock and is confident in their long term reliability performance. They would sell tunes like crazy.
From what I've read, the only way BMW will see it is if you go over 8300 rpms or exceed the speed limiter. Then it will be stored in shadow memory. Other than that, neither of these tunes will be detected after they are flashed back - Feel free to correct me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkboyz68 View Post
+100!



so if all results stay equal or close enough, then the determining difference will be price and maybe overall customer service experience.
Not a fan boy, Just the facts as i know them - Results should be close enough. I haven't seen ESS have a "Sale" since the initial introduction of the remote tune. Evolve has sales regularly. I picked mine up at the Black Friday sale for hundreds less than ESS. Timing is everything - Last I checked ESS charges extra for the Akra Evo tune - Evolve doesn't.

Evolve was first to come out with the remote tune...couple months later ESS showed up with one. Evolve was first to have code reading/clearing capability...several month later I'm told ESS now can do it. Evolve gives second car discounts, constantly adding options, is less expensive than ESS & while I can't speak for ESS's customer service, I can vouch for Sal, Paul & Evolve to be top tier. In the end, go with whoever you feel most comfortable with....or stay stock.

Close thread.
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      04-01-2012, 09:31 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie View Post
I doubt it will happen - Been through the same drama a couple years ago. Didn't happen then either.
What do you mean by tried before? Between who and why didn't it happen?
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      04-01-2012, 10:20 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baggy_M View Post
What do you mean by tried before? Between who and why didn't it happen?
Hate to bring up old shit, but it was between ESS & Power Chip in Feb 2010. After 8 pages of threads, probably 9-10 pages if you count those that were deleted the thread was locked.

IMHO, I think these remote tunes are equal. Just comes down to the tangibles & intangibles - additional add-ons, cost, customer service & the ability/willingness to provide future add-ons at little to no cost. Return customer rebates are a bonus....name calling/unprofessionalism doesn't sell the product....just makes you look like an ass.
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