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      03-30-2012, 09:17 PM   #67
Mike Benvo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rekrul View Post
You know what I'd like? Is a tuner explaining how the fuck BMW sees these flash loaded tunes in the shadow memory once everything is flashed back. I feel like if ANY tuner could guarantee that a tune would not be detected by BMW themselves then they would sell tunes left and right.
It depends on the circumstances... If a stock file is loaded back in (and I'm talking the ENTIRE 5MB stock file, not just the 128kb data area which contains the map data), there should be no traces of any changes to the DME provided that faults are cleared afterward. Flashing the DME itself will throw a number of faults in a number of modules, not just the DME. This is because other modules can not communicate with the DME over CAN Bus, as the flashing process programs the DME through CAN. During this time many modules will try to communicate and will set faults because they simply can not talk to the DME while it's being flashed over CAN.

Back in the day, a patch was loaded to be able to flash the DME. And even when returning it to stock format, that patch would still be there even though the map data was stock. With newer and more advanced tools, this isn't an issue.

If you have a raised redline, BMW can see this, and it's almost a dead giveaway. (Subject to conditions below)

If you have exceeded the top speed limiter, BMW can see this, and it's almost a dead giveaway. (Subject to conditions below)

If you have not raised the redline (or even if you have but have not exceeded your previous MAX RPM), and if you have not raised the top speedlimter (or have, but did not EXCEED the fastest speed previously driven before the speed limit raise), and cleared the faults in all modules, it's very unlikely that BMW would be able to tell.

Other things like the car passing readiness with no cats, cold start secondary air system disable, changed freestanding rev limit, are other potential giveaways.

Other than that I would say it's relatively safe. BMW knows my car has hit 8,600 multiple times, and I have not had any warranty issues whatsoever. In fact, the data from my car shows near 8,800 RPM for maximum stored rev's. But I have also not had a single engine issue either (knock on wood). Been tuned since roughly 1,200 miles, and almost 40K on the clock now.

I think I'm one of the few people in the world that can program just the data area on a tunerlocked car and still have the car start and run without any issue.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 03-30-2012 at 09:33 PM.
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      03-30-2012, 10:22 PM   #68
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      03-30-2012, 10:33 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
What you see below is screen shot from my Apple Computer running a map editing software called WinOLS.

This is what we use to edit all of your maps and many tuners will use this software.

This is probably the first ever time anyone has put a screen shot like this up because mostly it gives away the map locations and their sizes. I have purposefully hidden the addresses, size and order of the maps.

The maps, from our evolve supercharger project version SW 231E, we need to concentrate on today's lesson are the ones highlighted yellow. These are not all of the maps relating to post CAT function but only some (I cannot fit them all on my screen shot while keeping everything in alphabetical order).



(Sorry if the image is a bit big but I wanted to make it very clear).



The code that is thrown as many of you already know for CAT Efficiency to due to CAT deletion is 2789 and 278A.

On the right hand side of the map descriptions you can see the actual location of that map at addresses 0x7170CF and 0x71726F. The individual maps are 13 bytes long each in 16bit format.

To delete the CEL ONLY for 278A and 2789 you zero out those 2 maps.

So what does this achieve? It ONLY turns off the CEL for CAT efficiency. Everything carries on working as it should.

The rest of the highlighted maps are functions which all relate to CAT efficiency in different ways. You can see the descriptions clearly and they are quite self explanatory. With these functions, depending on what you change and what value you change it to, you will still not have a CEL for CAT efficiency but you may switch off the post 02 sensor function capability altogether.

In other words there are various ways to turn off the CEL light.

Some methods will keep the readiness monitors on and others will turn them off.


I hope this little glimpse into an engineer calibrators screen will give you some idea of how things are done.

As a side subject, the above also shows people that we actually do all of the calibrations here and the majority of the ECU and it's functions are covered.
Some of the map descriptions shown are very interesting for some of you I am sure... just be aware, we don't change all of them!
Man I love when Sal gets involved! No bull, straight hard facts!
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      03-30-2012, 10:38 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
Removing the fault code from the fault code table (thus preventing the car from throwing this code) is 100% undoubtedly tampering with federal emissions standards. You are literally removing a fault from the DME which is supposed to be there, rather than telling the car to ignore the input from the rear oxygen sensors. This is far and above turning off the rear o2 sensor byte. This means the rear oxygen sensors stay on and have a potential impact on long term fuel trims due to internal DME functions which monitor catalyst aging.

I am going to be testing readiness with Sal over the next few days and we will have a more definitive answer. My car with Akra and one of my customers cars with Turner test pipes will be the test vehicles for me. He will have cars to test there in the UK on this matter.

Something is not adding up, and both Sal and I recgonize this.
Mike

What you just admitted is you do not understand how readiness fully works or how to set it to ready if you now have to test it. It is very simple to do as it is only 8 bytes and it can even be done with something as basic as winols. You also do not seem to understand how the 02 sensors operate. Rear 02 sensors are narrow band, they are designed on the E9X M3 to only diagnose cat functionality and proper operation of the primary wide band sensors. They are not used to calibrate A/F ratio. Primary 02 sensors are wide band and are used to calibrate the long term and short term A/F trim. I know most of what you post and believe is theory and what you read so I wonít hold it against you. If you or any other "tuner" is using winols to tune then it is obvious you are simply editing basic calibration data and not doing any real hardcore program changes. winols is a editing tool not a software development tool. If you were developing software from scratch and you had a working knowledge of the entire control system you would be using a system like inca. Last time we had a discussion on this forum about tuning Mike I believe you were telling people to buy your personal Powerchip "custom" tuned files for a fully adaptive control system because it made more power than any other tune on the market, so excuse me if I donít take much of what you post very serious.

The discussion over emission cheating is really about intent. The only reason to set readiness monitors to active with a catless system is to get a car past emissions testing, period. I would be shocked if any tuner did this on purpose and told their customers it's emissions legal but if they did than good luck to them. This is intentionally breaking the law and deceiving customers to sell product. Having a product that does not pass emission, is designed to fail emissions when tested and is sold as not being emissions legal on the other hand is a different story. If anyone cannot see the difference or chooses to ignore it then that is on them.

There are only a handful of tuners in the world that understand and can build software on modern BMW's from scratch. One of them happens to work for us and has been tuning BMW's for 16 years. None of the others have yet to post here so I will take my absence from a thread that has very little value to most readers at this point. Good luck on your experiments..
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      03-30-2012, 10:53 PM   #71
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      03-31-2012, 12:43 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Mike

What you just admitted is you do not understand how readiness fully works or how to set it to ready if you now have to test it. It is very simple to do as it is only 8 bytes and it can even be done with something as basic as winols. You also do not seem to understand how the 02 sensors operate. Rear 02 sensors are narrow band, they are designed on the E9X M3 to only diagnose cat functionality and proper operation of the primary wide band sensors. They are not used to calibrate A/F ratio. Primary 02 sensors are wide band and are used to calibrate the long term and short term A/F trim. I know most of what you post and believe is theory and what you read so I wonít hold it against you. If you or any other "tuner" is using winols to tune then it is obvious you are simply editing basic calibration data and not doing any real hardcore program changes. winols is a editing tool not a software development tool. If you were developing software from scratch and you had a working knowledge of the entire control system you would be using a system like inca. Last time we had a discussion on this forum about tuning Mike I believe you were telling people to buy your personal Powerchip "custom" tuned files for a fully adaptive control system because it made more power than any other tune on the market, so excuse me if I donít take much of what you post very serious.

The discussion over emission cheating is really about intent. The only reason to set readiness monitors to active with a catless system is to get a car past emissions testing, period. I would be shocked if any tuner did this on purpose and told their customers it's emissions legal but if they did than good luck to them. This is intentionally breaking the law and deceiving customers to sell product. Having a product that does not pass emission, is designed to fail emissions when tested and is sold as not being emissions legal on the other hand is a different story. If anyone cannot see the difference or chooses to ignore it then that is on them.

There are only a handful of tuners in the world that understand and can build software on modern BMW's from scratch. One of them happens to work for us and has been tuning BMW's for 16 years. None of the others have yet to post here so I will take my absence from a thread that has very little value to most readers at this point. Good luck on your experiments..
Roman. If you wouldn't mind could you address the question/post I made that Mike Benvo responded to? Thanks. I am looking to possibly tune soon... I am just paranoid and like to be thorough.
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      03-31-2012, 02:39 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Mike

There are only a handful of tuners in the world that understand and can build software on modern BMW's from scratch. One of them happens to work for us and has been tuning BMW's for 16 years. None of the others have yet to post here so I will take my absence from a thread that has very little value to most readers at this point. Good luck on your experiments..
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      03-31-2012, 04:09 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Mike

What you just admitted is you do not understand how readiness fully works or how to set it to ready if you now have to test it. It is very simple to do as it is only 8 bytes and it can even be done with something as basic as winols. You also do not seem to understand how the 02 sensors operate. Rear 02 sensors are narrow band, they are designed on the E9X M3 to only diagnose cat functionality and proper operation of the primary wide band sensors. They are not used to calibrate A/F ratio. Primary 02 sensors are wide band and are used to calibrate the long term and short term A/F trim. I know most of what you post and believe is theory and what you read so I won’t hold it against you. If you or any other "tuner" is using winols to tune then it is obvious you are simply editing basic calibration data and not doing any real hardcore program changes. winols is a editing tool not a software development tool. If you were developing software from scratch and you had a working knowledge of the entire control system you would be using a system like inca. Last time we had a discussion on this forum about tuning Mike I believe you were telling people to buy your personal Powerchip "custom" tuned files for a fully adaptive control system because it made more power than any other tune on the market, so excuse me if I don’t take much of what you post very serious.

The discussion over emission cheating is really about intent. The only reason to set readiness monitors to active with a catless system is to get a car past emissions testing, period. I would be shocked if any tuner did this on purpose and told their customers it's emissions legal but if they did than good luck to them. This is intentionally breaking the law and deceiving customers to sell product. Having a product that does not pass emission, is designed to fail emissions when tested and is sold as not being emissions legal on the other hand is a different story. If anyone cannot see the difference or chooses to ignore it then that is on them.

There are only a handful of tuners in the world that understand and can build software on modern BMW's from scratch. One of them happens to work for us and has been tuning BMW's for 16 years. None of the others have yet to post here so I will take my absence from a thread that has very little value to most readers at this point. Good luck on your experiments..
A bunch of marketing fluff and not a lot of direct answers. Also a bunch of unsupported statements that lack any backing. Believe me that Sal and I are not idiots. I am starting to really get tired of your bullying tactics.

You've stated that the rear o2 sensors do not perform any adjustment whatsoever, yet BMW documentation STATES that it does effect LONG term fuel trims. It's not rocket science, read the document.

It is obvious that the pre cat sensors are for correcting fuel trims on the fly. It is obvious that they are wide-band sensors. It's also obvious that the rear o2 sensors do not need to be wide band sensors, and have a limited purpose. That doesn't mean you get to disregard the effect that rear o2 sensors have on fuel trim - BMW documentation ITSELF states that it is used to change LT fuel trims in attempts to compensate for aging cats. Is BMW wrong? Maybe they just document their 'theories' as you state.

It's quite funny how you have openly discredited eVolve on this thread. I used to sell ESS tunes BEFORE you did, and I have plenty of emails from Asbjorn telling me what to post. So I know that you are just trying to reiterate and regurgitate information Asbjorn is spitting at you while you don't have a clue yourself, and have probably never tuned an M3 yourself either.

No one is talking about software development here. I worked for the second largest software company in the world, so I might have more experience than you with that too. Maybe I should bring up dissembling code using IDA, but that's not relevant to the discussion either. Stop acting like you know what you are talking about, I did not take any personal stabs at you but just stated the facts and asked questions. I don't think anyone here cares about inca and building an engine management system, the beauty of tuning these ECU's is that Bosch and Siemens made them. Are you trying to say that you change the program code in an M3 MSS60 DME file? I want a direct answer to this question. If you don't, INCA and software engineering doesn't have ANY relevance here. And you and I both know that the program area is not changed by you (other than checksum correction functions that your cable does - and we use the same cable to flash cars). I'm glad you finally moved away from your handheld DimSport units to something that both eVolve and I have been using for awhile In fact, in 2006, Ashborn emailed me and said " I would really like a copy of the INPA software, how much/what do you want for it?" So your head tuner/programmer was asking ME for factory software 5 years ago?

So why don't you save all of your BS for your sales and stick to the TECHNICAL points here instead of spewing out information everyone already understands to be true.

If you want to continue this discussion and take this to the next level, I'm happy to put my tuning knowledge up to the test. While I'm doing that, I'll make sure to prove a few things here and there which might be a surprise to many here, and might damage your reputation. But if you want to throw rocks in a glass house, the gloves are off. ESS should remember what happened in court and who won that battle.

Learn to be objective and not simply a company puppet.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 03-31-2012 at 06:00 AM.
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      03-31-2012, 08:24 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman@ESS View Post
Mike

If you or any other "tuner" is using winols to tune then it is obvious you are simply editing basic calibration data and not doing any real hardcore program changes. winols is a editing tool not a software development tool. If you were developing software from scratch and you had a working knowledge of the entire control system you would be using a system like inca. Last time we had a discussion on this forum about tuning Mike I believe you were telling people to buy your personal Powerchip "custom" tuned files for a fully adaptive control system because it made more power than any other tune on the market, so excuse me if I don’t take much of what you post very serious.

The discussion over emission cheating is really about intent. The only reason to set readiness monitors to active with a catless system is to get a car past emissions testing, period. I would be shocked if any tuner did this on purpose and told their customers it's emissions legal but if they did than good luck to them. This is intentionally breaking the law and deceiving customers to sell product. Having a product that does not pass emission, is designed to fail emissions when tested and is sold as not being emissions legal on the other hand is a different story. If anyone cannot see the difference or chooses to ignore it then that is on them.

There are only a handful of tuners in the world that understand and can build software on modern BMW's from scratch. One of them happens to work for us and has been tuning BMW's for 16 years. None of the others have yet to post here so I will take my absence from a thread that has very little value to most readers at this point. Good luck on your experiments..
Why is that ESS always has to resort to both directly and indirectly discrediting and undermining their competition?

You clearly are a company that needs to mature and accept that compeition exists and we can all just carry on offering our products side by side.

Where has evolve said anything in this thread directly towards you yet you come along and feebly try and discredit us because we use WinOLS? It doesn't take a genious to work out that you refer to us as the 'other tuner'.

Say my name and be clear!

For everyone's information to discredit a company for using any hex / map editing software is really quite stupid.

You mention INCA (Integrated Calibration and Acquisition system) which is the most powerful development system for OEM.
You still need the .s19 format files plus the identifiers known as .a2l files.

The .a2l files are what sorts and indicates the location and size of variables in the DME converting from hex to physical units ---- JUST LIKE WHAT MY WINOLS SCREEN SHOT SHOWS!!

WinOLS has a DAMOS and A2L import function so any with access to these and WinOLS has the ability to do some very serious work.

What INCA allows you to do is change multiple variables on the fly like Mike has pointed out to a level which far outweighs any other method. If it designed to make calibrations.... not design software from scratch (hence why it is referred to as INCA OEM EFI Calibration Tool).

And why would you even bother developing from scratch when the BMW calibration is already at an excellent level? You build upon what cost xM Euro's.

Now, the 16 years experienced guy you 'employ' is also employed by a whole host of other tuners all around the world. Not just ESS. many other BMW tuners infact which are well known on here. I can count 4 straight away.
He is the one that uses and fully understands INCA.
It's people like him that even allow us tuners to do what we do.

So let's not take the credit of someone else's work here.

What us mere tuners do (and that includes ESS) is to work on recalibrating the developed software.

On the one hand I am putting up information that no one sees and TAKING THE MAJIC/SMOKE AND MIRRORS OUT OF EQUATION. On the other you are now making out it is so much more difficult what I am posting up.

Get real guys. Fooling the public and your customers into thinking something is more difficult that it actually is .... so wrong.

We will continue to educate the public on both DME's and Dyno usage + how to properly datalog their cars.

You can continue to discredit everyone, it might work but ultimately you are getting in the way of a group of hardcore enthusiasts not only supplying well developed products but more importantly educating their own client base and the general public.

I have been watching for years your antics on the forums. Get real guys and accept that we are all here to stay and alot of can match and beat both your software and hardware products.

The more BS you add, the more we will take away.

Now, the point of this discussion of sensors and readiness. You keep contradicting yourselves on this matter. You are so confused yourselves as to how the system works that your stabbing in the dark.
I suggest you read the documentation if you have access to it (we can send it to you if you don't have it) and get a real understanding of how everything works.

Stop being hypocrites and pointing fingers are others about being illegal when you yourselves have been at it for years.

Stop regurgitating what's told to you without actually understanding it. Right now, you look incredibly stupid. Maybe not infront of the public but certainly infront of the tuning companies that are reading this thread.

Last edited by Sal@Evolve; 03-31-2012 at 09:36 AM.
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      03-31-2012, 09:50 AM   #76
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Well said sal. Poor OP just wants his car tuned.
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      03-31-2012, 10:28 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Why is that ESS always has to resort to both directly and indirectly discrediting and undermining their competition?

You clearly are a company that needs to mature and accept that compeition exists and we can all just carry on offering our products side by side.

Where has evolve said anything in this thread directly towards you yet you come along and feebly try and discredit us because we use WinOLS? It doesn't take a genious to work out that you refer to us as the 'other tuner'.

Say my name and be clear!

For everyone's information to discredit a company for using any hex / map editing software is really quite stupid.

You mention INCA (Integrated Calibration and Acquisition system) which is the most powerful development system for OEM.
You still need the .s19 format files plus the identifiers known as .a2l files.

The .a2l files are what sorts and indicates the location and size of variables in the DME converting from hex to physical units ---- JUST LIKE WHAT MY WINOLS SCREEN SHOT SHOWS!!

WinOLS has a DAMOS and A2L import function so any with access to these and WinOLS has the ability to do some very serious work.

What INCA allows you to do is change multiple variables on the fly like Mike has pointed out to a level which far outweighs any other method. If it designed to make calibrations.... not design software from scratch (hence why it is referred to as INCA OEM EFI Calibration Tool).

And why would you even bother developing from scratch when the BMW calibration is already at an excellent level? You build upon what cost xM Euro's.

Now, the 16 years experienced guy you 'employ' is also employed by a whole host of other tuners all around the world. Not just ESS. many other BMW tuners infact which are well known on here. I can count 4 straight away.
He is the one that uses and fully understands INCA.
It's people like him that even allow us tuners to do what we do.

So let's not take the credit of someone else's work here.

What us mere tuners do (and that includes ESS) is to work on recalibrating the developed software.

On the one hand I am putting up information that no one sees and TAKING THE MAJIC/SMOKE AND MIRRORS OUT OF EQUATION. On the other you are now making out it is so much more difficult what I am posting up.

Get real guys. Fooling the public and your customers into thinking something is more difficult that it actually is .... so wrong.

We will continue to educate the public on both DME's and Dyno usage + how to properly datalog their cars.

You can continue to discredit everyone, it might work but ultimately you are getting in the way of a group of hardcore enthusiasts not only supplying well developed products but more importantly educating their own client base and the general public.

I have been watching for years your antics on the forums. Get real guys and accept that we are all here to stay and alot of can match and beat both your software and hardware products.

The more BS you add, the more we will take away.

Now, the point of this discussion of sensors and readiness. You keep contradicting yourselves on this matter. You are so confused yourselves as to how the system works that your stabbing in the dark.
I suggest you read the documentation if you have access to it (we can send it to you if you don't have it) and get a real understanding of how everything works.

Stop being hypocrites and pointing fingers are others about being illegal when you yourselves have been at it for years.

Stop regurgitating what's told to you without actually understanding it. Right now, you look incredibly stupid. Maybe not infront of the public but certainly infront of the tuning companies that are reading this thread.
Damn.... this thread has some good info in it.
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      03-31-2012, 10:41 AM   #78
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You want to know the sad thing?

I had numerous emails and 2 phone calls from other tuners who said ' why are you putting all that information up' 'Are you Crazy?' 'The pubic does not need to know this stuff'

Well gentlemen - from the very beginning even on the UK forums we put up information based on fact and take away the smoke and mirrors.

How many people on this very forum have logged into my screen using gotomypc and I have shown them how it all actually works. I educate as many people as I can because it's great to share knowledge.

We will continue to do this and if any company thinks we are mad then so be it. It's OUR CHOICE. The information we put up does not belong to you tuners anyway so we do what ever we want with it.

There are some highly skilled engine calibrators around that none of you have ever heard of. They don't enter this industry because of companies that choose to spread false propaganda and act in a very shady way.
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      03-31-2012, 10:46 AM   #79
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      03-31-2012, 11:15 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Benvo View Post
A bunch of marketing fluff and not a lot of direct answers. Also a bunch of unsupported statements that lack any backing. Believe me that Sal and I are not idiots. I am starting to really get tired of your bullying tactics.

You've stated that the rear o2 sensors do not perform any adjustment whatsoever, yet BMW documentation STATES that it does effect LONG term fuel trims. It's not rocket science, read the document.

It is obvious that the pre cat sensors are for correcting fuel trims on the fly. It is obvious that they are wide-band sensors. It's also obvious that the rear o2 sensors do not need to be wide band sensors, and have a limited purpose. That doesn't mean you get to disregard the effect that rear o2 sensors have on fuel trim - BMW documentation ITSELF states that it is used to change LT fuel trims in attempts to compensate for aging cats. Is BMW wrong? Maybe they just document their 'theories' as you state.

It's quite funny how you have openly discredited eVolve on this thread. I used to sell ESS tunes BEFORE you did, and I have plenty of emails from Asbjorn telling me what to post. So I know that you are just trying to reiterate and regurgitate information Asbjorn is spitting at you while you don't have a clue yourself, and have probably never tuned an M3 yourself either.

No one is talking about software development here. I worked for the second largest software company in the world, so I might have more experience than you with that too. Maybe I should bring up dissembling code using IDA, but that's not relevant to the discussion either. Stop acting like you know what you are talking about, I did not take any personal stabs at you but just stated the facts and asked questions. I don't think anyone here cares about inca and building an engine management system, the beauty of tuning these ECU's is that Bosch and Siemens made them. Are you trying to say that you change the program code in an M3 MSS60 DME file? I want a direct answer to this question. If you don't, INCA and software engineering doesn't have ANY relevance here. And you and I both know that the program area is not changed by you (other than checksum correction functions that your cable does - and we use the same cable to flash cars). I'm glad you finally moved away from your handheld DimSport units to something that both eVolve and I have been using for awhile In fact, in 2006, Ashborn emailed me and said " I would really like a copy of the INPA software, how much/what do you want for it?" So your head tuner/programmer was asking ME for factory software 5 years ago?

So why don't you save all of your BS for your sales and stick to the TECHNICAL points here instead of spewing out information everyone already understands to be true.

If you want to continue this discussion and take this to the next level, I'm happy to put my tuning knowledge up to the test. While I'm doing that, I'll make sure to prove a few things here and there which might be a surprise to many here, and might damage your reputation. But if you want to throw rocks in a glass house, the gloves are off. ESS should remember what happened in court and who won that battle.

Learn to be objective and not simply a company puppet.
Mike I believe your track record in the BMW community speeks for itself. I do not really need to say much more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Why is that ESS always has to resort to both directly and indirectly discrediting and undermining their competition?

You clearly are a company that needs to mature and accept that compeition exists and we can all just carry on offering our products side by side.

Where has evolve said anything in this thread directly towards you yet you come along and feebly try and discredit us because we use WinOLS? It doesn't take a genious to work out that you refer to us as the 'other tuner'.

Say my name and be clear!

For everyone's information to discredit a company for using any hex / map editing software is really quite stupid.

You mention INCA (Integrated Calibration and Acquisition system) which is the most powerful development system for OEM.
You still need the .s19 format files plus the identifiers known as .a2l files.

The .a2l files are what sorts and indicates the location and size of variables in the DME converting from hex to physical units ---- JUST LIKE WHAT MY WINOLS SCREEN SHOT SHOWS!!

WinOLS has a DAMOS and A2L import function so any with access to these and WinOLS has the ability to do some very serious work.

What INCA allows you to do is change multiple variables on the fly like Mike has pointed out to a level which far outweighs any other method. If it designed to make calibrations.... not design software from scratch (hence why it is referred to as INCA OEM EFI Calibration Tool).

And why would you even bother developing from scratch when the BMW calibration is already at an excellent level? You build upon what cost xM Euro's.

Now, the 16 years experienced guy you 'employ' is also employed by a whole host of other tuners all around the world. Not just ESS. many other BMW tuners infact which are well known on here. I can count 4 straight away.
He is the one that uses and fully understands INCA.
It's people like him that even allow us tuners to do what we do.

So let's not take the credit of someone else's work here.

What us mere tuners do (and that includes ESS) is to work on recalibrating the developed software.

On the one hand I am putting up information that no one sees and TAKING THE MAJIC/SMOKE AND MIRRORS OUT OF EQUATION. On the other you are now making out it is so much more difficult what I am posting up.

Get real guys. Fooling the public and your customers into thinking something is more difficult that it actually is .... so wrong.

We will continue to educate the public on both DME's and Dyno usage + how to properly datalog their cars.

You can continue to discredit everyone, it might work but ultimately you are getting in the way of a group of hardcore enthusiasts not only supplying well developed products but more importantly educating their own client base and the general public.

I have been watching for years your antics on the forums. Get real guys and accept that we are all here to stay and alot of can match and beat both your software and hardware products.

The more BS you add, the more we will take away.

Now, the point of this discussion of sensors and readiness. You keep contradicting yourselves on this matter. You are so confused yourselves as to how the system works that your stabbing in the dark.
I suggest you read the documentation if you have access to it (we can send it to you if you don't have it) and get a real understanding of how everything works.

Stop being hypocrites and pointing fingers are others about being illegal when you yourselves have been at it for years.

Stop regurgitating what's told to you without actually understanding it. Right now, you look incredibly stupid. Maybe not infront of the public but certainly infront of the tuning companies that are reading this thread.
Sal

I simply posted the truth. If it offended you then im sorry but sometimes people need to hear the truth. I was going to refrain from posting in such drama treads like this but you and Mikes continued attempts to discredit us needs to be addressed.

You and I both know you have no tuning or engineering background. You are a very good salesman but thatís about it. You and I both know your E9X supercharger and your exhaust systems are all made by 3rd party vendors and you simply put your name on it. If you would like we can discuss these vendors who make them for you. Or if you prefere you can go on the record and tell everyone you design and build all of these products at your facility in the UK. To date I have still not seen you admit that these products are not actually manufatured and designed by your company at your office. You even attempt to take credit for designing hardware like your remote tuning cable when we both know who you buy it from. You need to geat real and admit to people that everything you sell you have made by a 3rd party. Even your recent M5 headers you made a direct copy of RPI and had many people calling you out on it on the M5 forums for doing so.

Iím sorry but posting up screen shots of simple software editing programs that anyone can buy for $900 and spreading false information does not make you a software engineer and posting up pictures of hardware other vendors make for you does not make you a hardware engineer. Until you can actually pioneer something on your own I would refrain from patting yourself on the back too hard.

It takes many years to prove yourself in this business; it is not something you do your first year with 3rd party engineering. ESS has been tuning and building FI for BMW's for over 16 years. The company started out making our own supercharger products from scratch and still do to this day. We have always given credit where credit is due to other quality vendors who do their own work and build a good product. Good competition keeps us on our toes. You should not expect to show up on the scene out of nowhere with products you buy from 3rd parties and demand instant respect. If you want respect you need to earn it, not buy it.

As for any attempt you feel you need to make to discredit our products like you have been for the past several months I will simply let our track record and product speak for itself. When you build a good product you do not need to run to the forums like you do every day to tell people how good you are and how smart you are, your customers will do it for you.
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      03-31-2012, 11:33 AM   #81
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There you go everyone... what did I tell you.

ESS comes along and further discredits our company by calling me a salesman.

Feel free to give Alessandro Gilli @ Supersprint a call and ask him how much design work we put into various designs of exhaust and headers and they now use some of that in the newer own developments.

We know clearly it was your propaganda stunt to talk about our supercharger system and it was not our own. Well, you can say what you want, it's coming, it's ours and we spent alot of time and money developing it. I am sure Rotrex will be in touch with your constant bashing of their supercharger units. It's ok, you will land yourself in it.
Does ESS have all of their in house CNC machines and laser cutters? Does ESS have their own in house CAD designers? You don't have a factory building all of the injection moulded parts.
Everything is outsourced including your software development.

So why is it you are coming along and threatening us with telling the world that we outsource? Every company does it! It's normal business practice.

As for the evolve-R cable - many people know who makes it for us! We don't make hardware to communicate with DME's and other control systems. That's an understood thing. You don't either.

And for you to come along and tell me I am just a salesman - that's quite funny.

Go ahead, threaten away.

We are here to stay and we won't be bullied.

ESS continues to demonstrate that they bully and behave in the most unethical manner known in the tuning industry.

Notice - have I threatened to release information on who really makes your kits and does the tuning? NO. The majority of tuners know and they have the manners not to go threaten exposure.

You have given credit to the competition? Really?

- Active - Was it not ESS that spread rumours about the blower being too small
- VF - how lond has it been that AJ has been crying about them copying the ESS software?
- Evolve SC Kit - ESS behind the accusations of it not being ours

Anyone who can read english can see your accusations on this thread and your continual attempts to discredit us in every way you can get your hands on.

Go ahead. Keep trying.

You want to talk about the truth? Let's talk about the truth. You have fallen out with every company under the sun. You have been behind every smear campaign. You use your customers to do alot of the dirty work and everyone has noticed this.

What is wrong with you just doing what you do and letting everyone else do what they do?

You just don't have it in you.

Stop creating drama and screwing up the tuning industry. It ruins it for everyone.

Last edited by Sal@Evolve; 03-31-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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      03-31-2012, 11:54 AM   #82
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Well... so much for my plans for an ESS supercharger. Sal, let me know when your's is ready.

I think that says enough.
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      03-31-2012, 12:11 PM   #83
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thank you for the entertainment. i'm a professional lurker on here and this is the best dramatic thread since...the supercharger blown motor aa thread. both companies have good reputations, in my experience the party who stays quiet and lets their work speak for themselves will win in the long term. i happen to have the evolve tune, but if the ess tune were a $100 or so cheaper it might be a different story, being that i will be in the market for a supercharger within the year (and an area where ess is the current authority and has the best track record no doubt)
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      03-31-2012, 01:01 PM   #84
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Roman,

I like how you skip past valid points because you would rather not get into it with me than answer them. You guys bark a lot but don't have the expertise to bite.

You brought up INCA - I asked you - Do you change the program area? If not why is this relevant to the discussion?

Do you or ESS have functionrahmen for MSS60? Very few people even in this industry have it, and I could almost bet you guys don't.

Do you change vanos in ALL of your M3 tunes as you claim you do?

What effect does leaving the o2 sensors on have on LT fuel trims? You state there is ZERO effect, however, BMW internal documentation states otherwise.

The truth is that your boss was asking ME for factory software 6 years ago... I wonder why? Maybe because I have been using factory BMW tools for quite a bit longer than he has.

You are making yourself look exceedingly foolish and it's apparent to both Sal and I that YOU have NO idea how readiness works on these cars, and how the calibration changes effect it.

And you are right, my track record speaks for itself:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472123

And since you've further insulted me I will let everyone know about how you tried to blackmail me with my insurance company years ago when you had possession of my M5's DME and refused to return my property.
Everyone can see the judgement here:


If I gather anything by your posts, it's that you feel threatened by other tuners and are resorting to your old school bullying tactics. I'm sure the public will start to see through the thick smoke and mirrors. As Sal said, you guys are the dirtiest in the industry and frankly we are getting really sick of it.
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Last edited by Mike Benvo; 03-31-2012 at 02:22 PM.
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      03-31-2012, 01:13 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitw View Post
Well... so much for my plans for an ESS supercharger. Sal, let me know when your's is ready.

I think that says enough.
I'm with you -
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      03-31-2012, 01:43 PM   #86
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It's clear ESS is run by pros, not amateurs, their reputation,conduct,customer service and products speak volume.
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      03-31-2012, 01:43 PM   #87
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I'm 'mirin this thread.
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      03-31-2012, 01:58 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US///M3
It's clear ESS is run by pros, not amateurs, their reputation,conduct,customer service and products speak volume.
Now if this statement was made by someone supporting any other vendor what would they be called? I think I see fanboy used a lot.
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