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      02-18-2012, 06:46 PM   #1
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What Israeli's really think of the US/Our Leaders

It's pretty stupid of us to support such a group of people with billions of dollars when they think this way... (Read the user comments)


http://www.jpost.com/IranianThreat/N...#disqus_thread
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      02-18-2012, 09:47 PM   #2
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^ you kidding me? everyone knows Iran's intentions, its childish for this guy to come out and say otherwise. Lets not forget last week there was a secret meeting in the U.S. with an Israeli official (dont remember who) and some moron of a congresswoman spoke to the press about it.... I would say they are feeling as if the threat isnt taken seriously, at least thats what it sounds like.

Furthermore, if the U.S. really believed that Iran had no interest in producing weapons and were only intending on furthering enrichment for energy why in the hell would we be imposing sanctions? Its not really hard to see that this general is trying to just minimize the situation in the eyes of all parties involved.
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      02-19-2012, 08:06 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
^ you kidding me? everyone knows Iran's intentions, its childish for this guy to come out and say otherwise. Lets not forget last week there was a secret meeting in the U.S. with an Israeli official (dont remember who) and some moron of a congresswoman spoke to the press about it.... I would say they are feeling as if the threat isnt taken seriously, at least thats what it sounds like.

Furthermore, if the U.S. really believed that Iran had no interest in producing weapons and were only intending on furthering enrichment for energy why in the hell would we be imposing sanctions? Its not really hard to see that this general is trying to just minimize the situation in the eyes of all parties involved.
This is not a dig at you personally, but I think this "Iran threat" is the biggest load of BS I have heard. First of all, what is the threat from Iran? The things I hear all the time are:

1) Iran is developing nuclear weapons
2) Iran supports terrorism across the world
- Accused of plot against Saudi ambassador in U.S.
- Accused of links to Hezbollah
- Accused of links with Syria
- Accused of bomb attacks in India, Bangkok etc.

In regards to weapons, there is no such proof of these weapons. Iran say they are developing nuclear energy for peaceful purposes and there is no proof of anything otherwise. Furthermore, even if Iran was developing weapons, who said America/Britain/Israel are the world policemen? They all have known weapons and use drones on a daily basis in the name of "war on terror". What a joke.

Every day we turn on the T.V. and we are constantly brainwashed with new reports everyday of muslim links to terror. We simply believe it because government says so. I don't know why people don't notice that every time there is a conflict i.e. Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya etc. there is always a media campaign used to convince us that we need to fight these wars. This is because if there is any conflict it can be justified by referring back to media reports of weapons and terrorism.

The fact is if there was no oil in the middle east we would have NO interest in it. Where are Saddams weapons? Is the "intelligence" on Iran as reliable as the info that we went into Iraq with?



Yes, I know this is were people will come in now and call me a conspiracy theorist *flame suit on*, but I think the real conspiracy theories are the ones we hear on the news everyday. There is always a constant build up of "evidence" through media, and it will always constantly be relied on whenever there is a war. The sad thing is many people will be thinking that Iran has/is developing weapons even though there is no proof!

In regards to your second point, why are we imposing sanctions? We are simply doing that to appear as though we are exploring all diplomatic options and because we have the power to do so. I'll tell you what is likely to happen. We are going to say we have exhausted all diplomatic options and use the media to build up constant reports of Iranian links to terror, then we will say "look we tried our best to be reasonable now we need to use force."

Another point I want to raise, is why do we believe everything that our countries say but when another country like Iran makes a claim we don't believe it? For example, look at the bomb attacks on Iranian scientists. Now if this happened to an American/British/Jewish scientist there would be a HUGE media campaign with links to muslim terrorism. Yet if Iran was to make the claim that their scientists are being assassinated we simply dismiss this claim. Why is this? because we believe Iran to be a known terror state?
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      02-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Well, to be fair.... Iran's leader calls for Israel to be wiped off the map. So yeah, I'd say that constitutes as a threat. And it IS proven that Iran sponsors terrorism around the world, and they were the driving force of insurgencies in Iraq. So to think that Iran is not a threat is foolish.
Actually, in regards to that one comment Ahmedinejad made we could start a whole new debate based on translation of his comments. I should have added this to my list of accusations against Iran because it is commonly referred to. The issue of Israel relates to the Israel-Palestine conflict, again another topic.

What about the Israeli aggression against Palestine? Is that not a threat? U.S./U.K. wars across the world, are they a threat to world peace? Spy-planes/drones? What about the countries across the world we know for a fact have nuclear weapons i.e. Israel, U.K. and U.S. to name a few.

Also, what proof is it you are referring to? I wonder if it is as reliable as the evidence that we had before the Iraq war. We were told Saddam had weapons.

Bottom line: For me I like to keep an open mind in life. I don't believe for a minute that Iran doesn't have problems. Similarly, our countries are not free from problems too. What I do notice though that when it comes to foreign affairs there are people out there that will justify EVERY move America/U.K./Israel make. Everyone wanted to try use the U.N. when it came to bombing Libya but when it comes to using the U.N. to create a Palestinian state, "this is not the way", "it can only be achieved through talks not a U.N. resolution".

The double standards kill me and it pisses me off so much that no matter what these few elite countries in the world say there will always be people ready to step up and find a way to justify it. In other words, anything America/Britain/Israel say will always be truthful, but anything we hear from Arab states must be false. This is a huge problem. We are always ready to believe everything we hear/read as long as it is published in our countries.
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      02-19-2012, 11:17 AM   #5
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North Korea has many nuclear weapons and not very good intentions. As many other countries. Where were those avenging people when they developed or acquired? Oh, no oil, no problem ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Yeah, I love that 'lost in translation' argument... the fact is that Ahmedinejad has quite a strong track record when it comes to his borderline insane rhetoric. He knows no measure.
Ahmedinejad said that it is not opposed to a Jewish state, his only question is where

There are jews living in Iran, in fact is the muslim country with the higher percentage of them
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      02-19-2012, 11:31 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Yeah, I love that 'lost in translation' argument... the fact is that Ahmedinejad has quite a strong track record when it comes to his borderline insane rhetoric. He knows no measure.

And while I agree with you that the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were completely ridicules (in fact Iraq is now completely destabilized, and the Taliban in Afghanistan will be back in power the second the US leaves), Iran is a very different situation.
Well, like I say that is a whole other argument that cannot simply be dismissed in a few words. This is exactly what I mean though. I'm not saying I believe for sure his words were mis-translated, I admit I have not checked it out, but because there is such hatred for Ahmedinejad through world media if he tries to defend his words no-one will believe him simply because we start with a biased approach that the man sponsors terrorism. This is one of the main problems. I have outlined many other issues such as double-standards.


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Originally Posted by Javi335 View Post
North Korea has many nuclear weapons and not very good intentions. As many other countries. Where were those avenging people when the developed or acquired? Oh, no oil, no problem ...
This.
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      02-19-2012, 11:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Javi335 View Post
North Korea has many nuclear weapons and not very good intentions. As many other countries. Where were those avenging people when they developed or acquired? Oh, no oil, no problem ...



Ahmedinejad said that it is not opposed to a Jewish state, his only question is where

There are jews living in Iran, in fact is the muslim country with the higher percentage of them
there is less of a threat of actual use. Simple. The reason we fear Iran having nuclear weapons is because as schnell said above, they just may be crazy enough to use them. It has nothing to do with oil and everything to do with intentions (this specific case). Korea was flexing its muscles, Iran is out for something very different entirely. Dont forget guys, this same idea of policing other countries could have saved the lives of 6,000,000 people in the late 40s.
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      02-19-2012, 12:18 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
there is less of a threat of actual use. Simple. The reason we fear Iran having nuclear weapons is because as schnell said above, they just may be crazy enough to use them. It has nothing to do with oil and everything to do with intentions (this specific case). Korea was flexing its muscles, Iran is out for something very different entirely. Dont forget guys, this same idea of policing other countries could have saved the lives of 6,000,000 people in the late 40s.
This is untrue. We have no reason to believe Iran is developing weapons or intends to use them. Iran hasn't been involved in any recent conflict. That's why America and Britain keep trying to link Iran to terrorism so that we think they are violent and hate all westerners and jews and might be "crazy enough to use" nuclear weapons.

So by that logic other nations (America, Britain, Israel, North Korea etc.) should be allowed weapons because they aren't crazy and wouldn't use them? Come on. Every day America uses drones and invades airspace of countries. How many people were killed in the Iraq war? That is terrorism. The problem is world media has convinced people that terrorism = radical muslims. So when do we see actual terrorism we don't recognise it as such. When we America-Britain led wars across the world we see at as some sort of liberating movement to spread peace across the world. Yeah right!

Also, the holocaust has nothing to do with this but it always fascinates me every time people use this example. 9/11 is used in the same way. Our media has filled our minds with conspiracy theories that every muslim country is corrupt and sponsors terrorism. This "war on terror" is a joke. It's just a premise to invade other lands. There is no real clear defined enemy and at some point we accuse almost every nation of being involved in terrorism. It creates fear and panic and leads to justification of wars.
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      02-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
there is less of a threat of actual use. Simple. The reason we fear Iran having nuclear weapons is because as schnell said above, they just may be crazy enough to use them.
No one is crazy enough in nowadays to attack with nuclears bombs. If you use it once, you know the response is another one is gonna hit you. US fear they get it because then invade Iran is not going easy as they do with Irak. Is the best deterrent argument. Is the same if US use it against them, they know after Israel is the target.
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      02-19-2012, 12:30 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Javi335 View Post
No one is crazy enough in nowadays to attack with nuclears bombs. If you use it once, you know the response is another one is gonna hit you. US fear they get it because then invade Iran is not going easy as they do with Irak. Is the best deterrent argument. Is the same if US use it against them, they know after Israel is the target.
This is a valid point. Can you really imagine Iran going through all this effort to develop a nuclear bomb. They are facing tough sanctions and military force has still not been ruled out. They are going through all this hardship to develop a bomb to attack Israel and then what? The whole world would crush Iran.

I repeat: we have no reason to believe Iran has nuclear weapons or intends to develop any for future use.
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      02-19-2012, 12:43 PM   #11
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[quote=hks786;11376494]
So by that logic other nations (America, Britain, Israel, North Korea etc.) should be allowed weapons because they aren't crazy and wouldn't use them? Come on. Every day America uses drones and invades airspace of countries. How many people were killed in the Iraq war? That is terrorism. The problem is world media has convinced people that terrorism = radical muslims. So when do we see actual terrorism we don't recognise it as such. When we America-Britain led wars across the world we see at as some sort of liberating movement to spread peace across the world. Yeah right!

[quote]

Is not US, is not Iran ... is a few persons on the power.


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Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
I repeat: we have no reason to believe Iran has nuclear weapons or intends to develop any for future use.
I think they are developing, but, like i said, not to attack but to make think twice to those want to take militar meassures against them
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      02-19-2012, 03:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
This is a valid point. Can you really imagine Iran going through all this effort to develop a nuclear bomb. They are facing tough sanctions and military force has still not been ruled out. They are going through all this hardship to develop a bomb to attack Israel and then what? The whole world would crush Iran.

I repeat: we have no reason to believe Iran has nuclear weapons or intends to develop any for future use.
So where do you get your info from?
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      02-19-2012, 05:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
This is untrue. We have no reason to believe Iran is developing weapons or intends to use them. Iran hasn't been involved in any recent conflict. That's why America and Britain keep trying to link Iran to terrorism so that we think they are violent and hate all westerners and jews and might be "crazy enough to use" nuclear weapons.

So by that logic other nations (America, Britain, Israel, North Korea etc.) should be allowed weapons because they aren't crazy and wouldn't use them? Come on. Every day America uses drones and invades airspace of countries. How many people were killed in the Iraq war? That is terrorism. The problem is world media has convinced people that terrorism = radical muslims. So when do we see actual terrorism we don't recognise it as such. When we America-Britain led wars across the world we see at as some sort of liberating movement to spread peace across the world. Yeah right!

Also, the holocaust has nothing to do with this but it always fascinates me every time people use this example. 9/11 is used in the same way. Our media has filled our minds with conspiracy theories that every muslim country is corrupt and sponsors terrorism. This "war on terror" is a joke. It's just a premise to invade other lands. There is no real clear defined enemy and at some point we accuse almost every nation of being involved in terrorism. It creates fear and panic and leads to justification of wars.

You disagreed with the notion that some nation should police another. I argued that its not that clear cut using the holocaust as an example. It has everything to do with proving my point. It isnt 9-11. It was the holocaust and it perfectly serves my example. Furthermore the fact that you think iran isnt creating any nuclear weapon is just refusing to see whats happening. America has imposed stiff sanctions because nothing? Iran has moved warships into the straight of hormuz for nothing? Come on.

I never said it was okay to have nukes, i only reasoned to you why its not AS MUCH as an issue as Iran having them. If they have a crazy leader it wouldnt surprise me if he tried to do something crazy. I.E. attack Israel. Like Javi says, it wouldnt end well for Iran but he also makes the point that if anyone should be worried it should be Israel, which leads me back to the OP. Israel and everyone else who reads that article thinks the Gen. is patronizing Israel.
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      02-20-2012, 07:15 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by HaveQuick View Post
So where do you get your info from?
When it comes to foreign affairs I just keep an open mind. Sure I listen to the news like everyone else but I listen to what all sides have to say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by txz4 View Post
You disagreed with the notion that some nation should police another. I argued that its not that clear cut using the holocaust as an example. It has everything to do with proving my point. It isnt 9-11. It was the holocaust and it perfectly serves my example. Furthermore the fact that you think iran isnt creating any nuclear weapon is just refusing to see whats happening. America has imposed stiff sanctions because nothing? Iran has moved warships into the straight of hormuz for nothing? Come on.

I never said it was okay to have nukes, i only reasoned to you why its not AS MUCH as an issue as Iran having them. If they have a crazy leader it wouldnt surprise me if he tried to do something crazy. I.E. attack Israel. Like Javi says, it wouldnt end well for Iran but he also makes the point that if anyone should be worried it should be Israel, which leads me back to the OP. Israel and everyone else who reads that article thinks the Gen. is patronizing Israel.
What I was trying to point out is that people will forever use the holocaust and 9/11 as examples to try scare people into thinking we must take action. "We can't let Iran get weapons it might cause another holocaust". These are just scare tactics.

I think the main stumbling block in our conversation is the likelihood of Iran developing weapons. I think we may just have to agree to disagree lol. In my view, it is certainly possible that Iran is developing weapons. What I'm saying is that is no different from any other state in the world developing such weapons. It is delusional to think that our western states stand only for justice and peace. We actively promote war around the globe and will do anything to justify it and use global media to spread "facts" about terrorism.

Furthermore, I have highlighted the fact we have NO reason or proof to believe that Iran is actually developing weapons. I don't know why you think sanctions prove that Iran is making weapons. Did we not build a case for the Iraq war too? We had much "intelligence" on that matter too but where are the weapons Saddam had? I have already explained another reason for why sanctions are in place, namely to give the west the appearance of pursuing diplomatic options.

In regards to warships in the strait of Hormuz, why does that mean Iran is developing weapons? We (America and Britain) have warships too in those waters! This is exactly what I'm trying to point out. In your mind because Iran has warships (in arab waters!) that this is an indication of Iran's intentions. Why is this? You have already made up your mind that Iran is a terror state and anything you hear you will use that as further proof even if it it could have a different meaning. I.e. Iran could be defending itself, what would be wrong with that? I refer back to my previous point that there are always ready to step up and interpret events in a way that fits the preferred political narrative that our western governments want people to think.

Sorry If I sound rude it's nothing personal against you but I feel that so many people just go along with what they hear in the news.
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      02-20-2012, 09:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
Well, to be fair.... Iran's leader calls for Israel to be wiped off the map. So yeah, I'd say that constitutes as a threat. And it IS proven that Iran sponsors terrorism around the world, and they were the driving force of insurgencies in Iraq. So to think that Iran is not a threat is foolish.
It is disgusting to this day, that people still believe this propaganda.

The translation is more along the lines of "the regime that occupies Israel must be removed from the pages of history".

The context of Regime would be directed to the Zionist regime, probably moreso directed to the Likud party.

This garbage that the media and our bought and paid for political puppets just attempt to draw up support through Fear-Mongering. That translation at no point indicated they would destory Israel/kill the jews. Iran is home to the 2nd largest population of Jews in the MiddleEast second to Israel of course, and within the borders of Israel reside the 2nd or 3rd holiest site to Islam.

Wishing the collapse of the Zionist regime is similar to the West aiding in the collapse to other regimes in the MiddleEast. This is a nonstory fabricated to fit a bunch of chickenhawks narration.

Iran has not had a military campaign of aggression where they invaded another country for CENTURIES. You'd have to go back to the Persian Empire to possibly provide an example. Yet we are led to believe that their leadership is so nuts that they would immediately blow up Israel which would only lead to their own destruction right? How ridiculous is this logic? If you would like to speak of crazy leadership whom shouldn't have possession of Nukes go google the Samson Doctrine/Option.
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      02-20-2012, 10:25 AM   #16
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Poor misunderstood Iranians. I guess all those high-end IEDs they made and exported to kill Americans were really just a cry to be understood. Exporters of terror, an existential threat to Israel, 6th century religious whack jobs, agitators without a cause trying to become a player in the big game. Combine their words (nothing lost in translation) with a capability to put a nuc into Tel Aviv and it's time to whack a mole! Shut down the ports, take out the nuc facilities, cut off their oil exports and gas imports, lock down the banking and they'll be able to actually live in the past instead of just talk about it. Just a matter of time 'til they light off a sea-skimmer at one of our ships--they won't have to worry about the Jews.
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      02-20-2012, 10:29 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
I wonder why half of the UN leaves the room when he gives a speech... all lost in translation then? All the EU sanctions against Iran unjust? Yeah, Iran is just misunderstood... Well, I'm glad the rest of the world sees it differently and takes action.
Nice attempt to discredit my post, but when Ahmadinejad was quoting the Ayatollah Khomeini, his statement was nowhere along the lines of your silly narrative you like to believe.

However, just to entertain you, maybe because the UN, just like most politicians are bought and paid off and they don't have a veto card in their back pocket like some other countries? Need an example? Just take a look at the countless resolutions that had been veto'd for Israel for all their crimes from the US.
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      02-20-2012, 10:35 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
Poor misunderstood Iranians. I guess all those high-end IEDs they made and exported to kill Americans were really just a cry to be understood. Exporters of terror, an existential threat to Israel, 6th century religious whack jobs, agitators without a cause trying to become a player in the big game. Combine their words (nothing lost in translation) with a capability to put a nuc into Tel Aviv and it's time to whack a mole! Shut down the ports, take out the nuc facilities, cut off their oil exports and gas imports, lock down the banking and they'll be able to actually live in the past instead of just talk about it. Just a matter of time 'til they light off a sea-skimmer at one of our ships--they won't have to worry about the Jews.
LOL, some other brainwashed spoonfed Neocon. Won't even bother with the Faux News type, they have lost all ability for critical thinking and analysis decades ago. Go actually search for the quote by Ayatollah Khomeini and get it translated by someone who speaks the language idiot.

Even if they are supplying IED's, that is a fraction of casualties compared to what we had done in the Iraq-Iran war where we are accountable for 100,000s killed including the use of chemical weapons on the Iranians.

Nope, nothing to see here. Just keep watching Faux and think "they hate us for our freedom"

AMURIKAH FUCK YEAH!
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      02-20-2012, 10:52 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by SehrSchnell View Post
I wonder why half of the UN leaves the room when he gives a speech... all lost in translation then? All the EU sanctions against Iran unjust? Yeah, Iran is just misunderstood... Well, I'm glad the rest of the world sees it differently and takes action.
Half the room leave the U.N. because America, Israel and Britain always propagate stories about Iranian links to terror through media all over the world and sadly most people believe it. The foreign secretary of my country does it almost on a daily basis. Just yesterday he was going on about how Iran have weapons could lead to WW3. Like I say this build of B.S. through the media is what people refer back to when we decide to put our tin hats on and go to war. That doesn't mean it's proof of anything though it's just propaganda.

I also find it funny when people talk about the U.N. as if it is some superior authority that exists to promote world peace. The U.N. is controlled largely by the U.S. Israel and the U.K. Let's not forget whatever Britain says the rest of the E.U. follows too. I have previously spoken about the double standards at the U.N. It is simply a tool used for justifying wars but when it comes to using the U.N. for peaceful measures i.e. creating a Palestinian state no-one wants to do anything.

Let's not forget when people hated on Ahmedinejad for speaking against the official 9/11 story. He was hugely criticised. I don't understand why people are so quick to believe everything our governments tell us and then when people questions things you are labeled a "conspiracy theorist". I believe the accusation that Iran is developing weapons and may use them against Israel is a conspiracy theory. Muslims have much love for Jerusalem and it is such a holy land to us. I don't believe for a minute that Iran is about to nuke this land to kill jews/muslims.

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Originally Posted by OldArmy View Post
Poor misunderstood Iranians. I guess all those high-end IEDs they made and exported to kill Americans were really just a cry to be understood. Exporters of terror, an existential threat to Israel, 6th century religious whack jobs, agitators without a cause trying to become a player in the big game. Combine their words (nothing lost in translation) with a capability to put a nuc into Tel Aviv and it's time to whack a mole! Shut down the ports, take out the nuc facilities, cut off their oil exports and gas imports, lock down the banking and they'll be able to actually live in the past instead of just talk about it. Just a matter of time 'til they light off a sea-skimmer at one of our ships--they won't have to worry about the Jews.
This is conjecture at best and lies at worst. I'm not blaming you personally for it but what I'm saying is all we ever hear is the same crap on the news. What explosive devices are you referring to? People are always talking about stuff as if there is clear proof and they have seen it with their own eyes. Yet when it comes to considering the western forces in the world and the innocent people they kill with fighter jets, warships, drones etc. no-one cares. It can be justified because we are fighting a "war on terror". Yeah right...
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      02-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #20
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You are just mad because you have a time-share in Iran....
I see you've got nothing and can't refute.

I accept your admission of defeat.
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      02-20-2012, 11:14 AM   #21
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Let's not make it personal. I'd be the first person to put my hand up and say I got it wrong on Iran. I'm not saying they arent developing weapons but a) we cant prove they are and b) even if they, what's the threat? What I'm trying to point out though is that absolutely everything we discuss comes back to media reports. The same thing happens all the time and the media is used to cause war and justify it.

I find it fascinating that people refer to these media reports constantly without questioning them even though they want to use them as proof to violate territories and kill innocent civilians. We know they lied about the Iraq war, so what else do they lie about?
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      02-20-2012, 11:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
Let's not make it personal. I'd be the first person to put my hand up and say I got it wrong on Iran. I'm not saying they arent developing weapons but a) we cant prove they are and b) even if they, what's the threat? What I'm trying to point out though is that absolutely everything we discuss comes back to media reports. The same thing happens all the time and the media is used to cause war and justify it.

I find it fascinating that people refer to these media reports constantly without questioning them even though they want to use them as proof to violate territories and kill innocent civilians. We know they lied about the Iraq war, so what else do they lie about?
Even if they were, it'd be Pakistan/India part deux, and Pakistan harbors far more radicals and transport their nukes in cargovans.

Like I said, this should be a nonstory. Nothing more then bullying going on and Iran having nukes would at least be a deterrent from invasion unlike their neighbors. If they were I could understand why.
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